I know there's been a couple of Tom Moore threads but just finished watching football focus where they were doing a piece on diversity and then BBC News led with the Tom Moore story platforming his Daughter and his family.
A brave fighter pilot who raised millions for charity, nothing to be sceptical about here right? The truth that the BBC news missed but never the less enabled was that this was not a campaign run by Captain Tom Moore, it was orchestrated by his Daughter and her family.
The Tom Moore story was devoid of context and too easily used as a meme for nationalists and brexiters. To what extent do you think his daughter has a responsibility in the way in which this story played out? It was a story that could have reminded us of the Captains actions in fighting fascism as part of a coalition of dozens of Nations. The news could have also focused more on this aspect but instead it became an event draped in the flag and followed the narrative as set out by his family. On the whole the story can't be said to have bought the nation together and teeters into the banging pots for the NHS territory.
I thought these things within a couple of seconds of seeing his daughter on TV when the story first broke. I could see how this story would play out in the media, why couldn't she?.... Or perhaps she did.
Contrast this story with that of Sydney Pigden, another WW2 fighter pilot who died a couple of years ago.
I thought this was all a bit odd. Lovely elderly chap raises some money for charity and sadly passes away shortly afterwards. As sad as that is, does it really deserve all this nauseating news coverage ?
Oh BTW, he was Army, not a fighter pilot.
Ruling elite using the war as a mechanism to encourage normal people to reinforce the narrative that we are best ruled over by public school types.
I stand corrected wrong trousers. Looks like I put Captain Sir Tom Moore in the wrong trousers, RAF blue ones rather than Army khaki.
Unfortunately his story appears to tick all the boxes for the mythical sepia-tinted past this country has recently manufactured for itself, and it’s presently being very cynically manipulated to further a nationalist narrative of English exceptionalism
An old boy who thought he’d try & raise a few pennies for the knackered NHS. He succeeds beyond his wildest dreams.
Don’t fing over-think it.
Take it at face value.
Mr Pigden? I thought you was dead?
That was Mr Parrot.
Definitely over thinking it. The whole story was a piece of good news floating on top of a sea of awful news.
"Definitely over thinking it."
- Best to let the media do our thinking for us yes?
"The whole story was a piece of good news floating on top of a sea of awful news."
- Alternative News is the phrase ypure looking for.
Definitely over thinking it. The whole story was a piece of good news floating on top of a sea of awful news
I wish. That's what it should have been. But the way it has been exploited by the Brexiters/English nationalists/don't look at the corruption mob is extremely distasteful.
Unfortunately his story appears to tick all the boxes for the mythical sepia-tinted past this country has recently manufactured for itself, and it’s presently being very cynically manipulated to further a nationalist narrative of English exceptionalism
+1
All part of the great british self delusion.
I bet Inkster and Onewheelgood are at the top of the list when you have too many positive people at your dinner party and you need a joy sucker to get people to leave.
Questioning what is playing out in front of you isn’t about sucking the joy out of things. The tendency towards calling for people to be “positive”, as if that is the antithesis to “critical thinking”, worries me a great deal. It’s probably at the heart if a great many mistakes in recent years, and so easily used to basically tell people to shut up and accept the party/national line without questioning it.
A great story but so exploited by the press etc.
I'm still confused as to how they managed a foreign holiday during lockdown.
Unfortunately it was always likely to be co-opted by the plastic patriot nationalists. The really sad thing is the utter predictability of this.
Expect all sorts of nasty little alt-right shits trying to tell the world what Captain Tom 'would have made of this'.
Don’t fing over-think it.
Take it at face value.
Totally, i think op and others are pretty much demeaning his memory, his achievements throughout his life in order to satisfy their misgivings.
Totally, i think op and others are pretty much demeaning his memory, his achievements throughout his life in order to satisfy their misgivings.
And I think the opposite. I think those who exploit his innocent good nature to incite jingoistic nationalism are the ones who demean him.
I think those who exploit his innocent good nature to incite jingoistic nationalism are the ones who demean him.
+1
The whole thing became government propaganda.
The very fact that we need "NHS Charities" is a disgrace anyway.
Nice old bloke, doing something nice. End of story.
For some reason people jumped on his fund raiser and he raised a massive amount of money.
I remember at the time they was an old woman walking up and down her stairs for a few weeks to raise money which was very difficult for her. People didn't jump all over that one and she never got mentioned again, she may even still be going up and down stairs all day, who knows.
Old boy raises some money for the NHS and then has his efforts hijacked by the establishment for pr purposes. I wish his family were left in peace to grieve and pay their respects rather than it turn into a media circus
efforts hijacked by the establishment for pr purposes.
Been happening for decades, always a politician out touting for press pics.
The very fact that we need “NHS Charities” is a disgrace anyway.
It's ok, they don't need any more money, they will be entirely funded by clapping moving forwards.
"I bet Inkster and Onewheelgood are at the top of the list when you have too many positive people at your dinner party and you need a joy sucker to get people to leave."
......................
Gammon for dinner? I'll bring the whine.
"I wish his family were left in peace to grieve and pay their respects rather than it turn into a media circus".
......................
I think you'll find his family asked for it Chris, as per my OP, the first time I saw his Daughter talk on camera I felt uneasy, I saw an old and dignified man being manipulated by a family member who I thought knew full well how this could and would be exploited by the media and politicians. If she didn't realise at first, then she was certainly in a position to control the narrative when it became evident how the story was being exploited. Though perhaps she was just blinded by the limelight and couldnt garner a perspective on the unfolding events, maybe she wasn't quite as smart as her posh accent suggested. That is a possibility.
A great story but so exploited by the press etc.
I’m still confused as to how they managed a foreign holiday during lockdown.
Yup sums it up.
Because Boris still allowed people to fly in and out of the UK.
Drac just beat me to it
More annoyed that while on holiday he posed for a photo with the owners of one of the top local cycling cafes. No wonder they couldn't be open for takeaways 😂😂
Agree with Inkster on this and had the same thoughts regarding the daughters TV appearances. Ive been rather conflicted about the whole thing. Sir Tom I have no issues with, daughter I'm not sure about, fund raising for the NHS, I think a lot of people who donated would not be happy that their contributions didn't go towards front line costs (and it absolutely shoudn't), especially if they find out what it was actually spent on, cynical use of the story to back up a shoddy and nasty political ideology, disgusting.
Yes a good news story, Tom just happened to be the one fund raiser that went viral (Michael Ball helped alot), does that make him this sainted figure he's been turned into, no, does it detract from his intentions and motivations, also no.
Amazing how the anti Govt mob have jumped on this old boys funeral to turn it into an anti Govt rant.
Ironic almost.
Why can't it just be an old soldiers funeral ?.
brads
Full Member
Amazing how the anti Govt mob have jumped on this old boys funeral to turn it into an anti Govt rant.Ironic almost.
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?.
It can't just be an old soldiers funeral for all the reasons already posted in the thread? I'm puzzled?
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?.
Because it was made into something else.
You know many others who were Knighted so quickly for their charity work?
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?.
Ask the government's propaganda department.
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?.
Because somebody invited all the media to attend and turned it into a circus.
Just as easy to say ‘the family appreciate your sentiments but request that you respect their privacy at this difficult time’
You’d think that in the middle of a pandemic, when people aren’t meant to be travelling or assembling in groups, that wouldn't be too difficult.
It’s all developed a pretty unpleasant, exploitative undercurrent
Ask the government’s propaganda department.
brads likes to think he is 'on message' with the new right, but he's going to be left at the window looking in, whilst the pigs dip their snouts in the trough and ignore him and his ilk.
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?
Isn’t that exactly what the OP was asking?
I have found the whole Captan Tom thing a bit of a circus from the start.
Old bloke raises money for the NHS - a seemingly decent gesture.
What doesn't sit right with me is that he was raising the money in the first place. Surely this is a massive failure by the government?
The media have leapt on this and media being media have turned it into said circus and i get the feeling that the family particularly the daughter was instrumental in this....like i say, just a feeling.
Its something i have looked at from the perspective of my own Granfathers, Uncles service in WW2, they were all in the worst of it and many wounded, but there were never discussions, no medals on show, no regimental ties, no blazers and berets on remembrance sundays just a quiet pint and a thought for their dead friends. I was sad to see his natural cheeriness about the War converted into Spitfires, Dakotas, Flags and British fighting spirit by a shitty right wing press.
My family members had none of that cheer for the war they fought in. Greece, Western Desert, Sicliy, Monte Cassino, D Day, Normandy, Arnhem, Rhine, Bergan Belsen, Russian Conveys.
Anyway i shall wsnder off and raise a beer to all of them including Sir Tom.
Agree with the above. My grandfather fought at Monte Casino, my Dad in the Falklands and the Gulf. Amazing unassuming men that were real understated heros. We celebrate the one instead of the many.
What doesn’t sit right with me is that he was raising the money in the first place. Surely this is a massive failure by the government?
Yep, amazing bit of Tory PR / spin - convince the public that the NHS is a charity which should be funded by goodwill alone. They must be laughing all the way to their parent's trust fund....
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?
I can only assume you've just come round from a Coma and have no memory of the last 18 months.
Not so sure about labelling his daughter as a parasite, do you expect him manage the press around a simple charity gesture that snowballed, hardly gonna pull out his iPhone to answer Micheal ball or perhaps he could have managed all his social channels. It needed managing and nobody was in a better place to do it than his daughter if she made a couple of quid along the way good on her. The press manipulate far more savvy people than her, she did nothing wrong.
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?.
well lots of old soldiers died in the last year, but I didn't hear them have a historic plane fly past, a 14 gun salute, filmed by the BBC or the coffins being carried by pallbearers from the regiment. Indeed my Uncle died recently and covid restrictions meant there were no pallbearers, he couldn't be buried in his own clothes, and the eulogy was pre-recorded so that nobody was shouting into the auditorium (except the minister who seemed to be permitted to!). It doesn't feel at though this was quite on an equal footing. i have to say when I heard the pomp that was going on I assumed it was practice run for Philip!
I'm not as cynical as the OP, and like to think his daughter was doing it for him - as a way to ensure his last years were as exciting as they could be. The media love a circus though, and the government have must be delighted by it.
I think the Army milked this as well. It's really important that the Military is seen to be policitcaly neutral. Something alarming has set in with regards how the Military is positioned in the public consciousness.
As much as this presents itself as an opportunity for many of us to stick it to the Tories, I would also lay the blame at Tony Blair's door. Not only for his pivot towards overt sentimentalism with the death of Diana but the way in which tha Army became sentimentalised during the Iraq and Afgan campaigns with the ceremonial returning of the fallen soldiers at Wooton Basset.
My father served in Aden for a bit and I'm sure he would have been contemptuous of all the plastic patriotism.
Poly,
There's a difference between cynical and sceptical. I'd like to think his Daughter was only thinking best thoughts but like many others on this thread she made me feel uncomfortable. My first reaction to the story was positive, so 'not' cynical.
As much as this presents itself as an opportunity for many of us to stick it to the Tories, I would also lay the blame at Tony Blair’s door. Not only for his pivot towards overt sentimentalism with the death of Diana but the way in which tha Army became sentimentalised during the Iraq and Afgan campaigns with the ceremonial returning of the fallen soldiers at Wooton Basset.
Princess Tony also helped facilitate the whole Brexit debacle, and the acknowledgment of the returning dead through Royal Wootton Bassett was started by several members of the Royal British Legion, who’d learned that the cortège carrying the deceased from RAF Lyneham would be passing through Wootton Bassett (as it was then), on their way to Brize Norton and decided to be a sort of honour guard on behalf of their families. It was the residents of the town, on finding out what the Legion members were doing, and being notified by the Legion when the next deceased would be coming back, turned out to offer their respects. It was the locals decision to show their respects, it wasn’t until near the end of repatriation through RAF Lyneham that it became a bigger thing, because there wouldn’t be any other opportunities for the locals to show their respects.
The big show of respect afterwards came from bikers, organised by the members of Ogri MCC, and the Royal British Legion bikers, most members of Ogri MCC are ex-and serving service personnel, and that drew in a lot more people to make a statement.
I was there, because my brother is an Ogri member, and the ride was his first time on a bike after a near fatal accident, so my presence was as much for him as anything.
