Have to say I’m quite **** off with these posters/ads/whatever they are
It is amazing anyone is even semi defending them.
About the one thing in their favour is it is amusing seeing tories whining about labour joining in their gutter politics but then again its not exactly news they are hypocrites and so not worth it.
Thanks for replying Ernie and glad my rant caused no offence.
I know it wasn't much of a rant by stw standards but it was in my mind and that doesn't please me at all.
It seems Labour has nothing to offer beyond being as vile as the Tories. What a truly depressing state of affairs.
https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1644339059215548416
So now this?
When is Labour going to promise to bring back hanging? Now out of the EU there is nothing to stop the UK reintroducing hanging.
And the birch. Surely it's time to get tough on criminals and reintroduce flogging?
I put that a few posts up Ernie.
But yeah they're digging themselves in 'cos they know a back track would look even worse.
Be interesting to see how the Tories respond.
I put that a few posts up Ernie.
Ah so you did, apologies. The limitations of trying to vaguely follow a thread whilst enjoying a bank holiday countryside ramble!
Be interesting to see how the Tories respond.
I have just had a horrible thought..... they might attempt to take the moral high ground!
Well they might as well make up offences which Labour would get tough on, apparently the offence of “possession of a firearm with intent to harm” does not exist, it is a made up offence.
Obviously a small detail which the former Director of Public Prosecution considered unimportant.
Ah so you did, apologies. The limitations of trying to vaguely follow a thread whilst enjoying a bank holiday countryside ramble
Ramble wins every time.
That^^ is pretty good imo. Especially this bit:
It was only a year or so ago that Boris Johnson was shamefully and bizarrely attempting to counter Partygate stories by telling the House of Commons that Starmer had failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions, a gambit that also drew cross-spectrum political condemnation and at least one angry mob towards Starmer. At the time, the Labour leader drew himself up to his full height and said that he had never before been called a “paedophile protector”. It was “a deliberate slur without any basis in fact,” Starmer told the Times. “The PM knew exactly what he was doing … It’s not about me, it’s about the way we conduct our politics. I don’t want to see us go down the route that this potentially takes us down.”
But the rest of it is also very good.
I'd like to think that the Labour Party is bigger than Kier, and notwithstanding it's recent centralising efforts, a party that has someone like Jess Phillips in it automatically wins in a game of Top Trumps against a party that has someone like Bill Cash in it.
But this is a low blow - unbecoming of anyone who wishes to be taken seriously. The racist aspects of it weren't immediately apparent to me, but once pointed out are difficult to ignore.
Shameful really.
This Jess Phillips
https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1643988046659059715?t=ag56lacKwjnih9_TlDOF4w&s=19
The one that was keen on stabbing Corbyn in the front.
That^^ is pretty good imo.
Marina Hyde stating the SKS isn't the messiah he is a very naughty boy, that's going to be conflicting for binners.
He is certainly not personally responsible for what happened 13 years ago. Why not attack/criticise the Tories instead of singling out Rishi Sunak?
Because to the less clear thinking voters they have now seen it and a link has been made. More links made over the next year and it all helps towards peoples doubts about voting for Sunak's tory party. That is how to works (unless it doesn't because they continue to fall for tory bullshit)
The advert is an utter disgrace. false claim, clearly racist.
'Diane Abbott MP
@HackneyAbbott
21h
Sunak is responsible for lots of things. But sentencing is the responsibility of the judiciary. You would think a former DPP would know that. Horrible ad.'
Well put. That ad does support Forde's claim that there is a hierarchy of racism in the LP. The ethnic minority vote is a big one to lose, they're playing a risky game.
2 out of 3 ain't bad. I don't think the racism is clear, I also can't absolutely claim there isn't an element of dogwhistle in it (to appeal to certain types of floating voter, maybe). Which is why it shouldn't have been done - to avoid any doubts.
None of the other ones (guncrime or cornflakes) are 'clearly racist' and attacking the leader of the party, whether he's been leader for long or not, has to be accepted. GE's are won by leaders as much as local candidates, rightly or wrongly.
Which leads to 'surely someone in central office must have realised' and 'then why let it go out' - leading me to either the above or massive incompetence, neither of which is a good attribute for a party hoping to form the next Gov.
Very poor.
None of the other ones (guncrime or cornflakes) are ‘clearly racist’ and attacking the leader of the party,
They are very obviously attacking the leader of the Tory Party. The first one claims that Rishi Sunak doesn't support jailing of those found guilty of “possession of a firearm with intent to harm", and the second one accuses Sunak of being soft on cereal perverts.
bad grammar, sorry. Should have been a comma after the and, or two wholly different sentences.
None of the other ones (guncrime or cornflakes) are ‘clearly racist’, and attacking the leader of the party whether he’s been leader for long or not, has to be accepted.
Sunak is a legit target*, he can't be untouchable either because he's not been in post long or because of the colour of his skin.
Sorry again, on rereading your interpretation is the more likely one which was not the intent.
* political sense not physical, hopefully that's clear.
Marina Hyde stating the SKS isn’t the messiah he is a very naughty boy, that’s going to be conflicting for binners
Lol - that's because Centrists are gradually getting spat out of Starmer world.
That's a natural process of him moving further right than even they expect. Been on the cards since his made-up pledges got dropped.
How far right everyone is willing to move with him is an interesting test.
The acid test will be whether liberal freedom fighters like Dunt or Freedland criticise him.
They've already lost Shelagh Fogerty on LBC. PMSL.
Sunak is a legit target*
But only for things which he is actually responsible for. Whatever you want to accuse Sunak of he isn't personally responsible for the sentences past by the courts for the last 13 years.
If you desperately want to find a party leader with some sort of responsibility for the sentences passed by the courts then your best bet would be Keir Starmer. In 2010 he sat on the Sentencing Council which decided such matters. In contrast Sunak was working as a hedge fund manager at the time.
If you desperately want to find a party leader with some sort of responsibility for the sentences passed by the courts then your best bet would be Keir Starmer. In 2010 he sat on the Sentencing Council which decided such matters. In contrast Sunak was working as a hedge fund manager at the time.
I'm fully expecting a poster from the Tories alluding to this
Labour will now deserve all they get.
@ernielynch 'Working' as a hedge fund manager is a bit of a stretch. 🙂
I disagree there, as leader of the party you inherit the whole thing, not just the bits you did
seems like a bad misstep to me.
however the idea that sunak can't be accountable when he is at the head of a tory government that has been in power for what feels like several lifetimes is laughable.
I don’t have a problem with attacking sunak and think labour are often far too nice. But doing so in a way that is racist and pumps up far right culture war tropes is beyond the pale.
I disagree there, as leader of the party you inherit the whole thing, not just the bits you did
Dunno about that, not specific enough for me.
There are clearly different levels of responsibility over time in each party for different individuals.
Sunak doesn't have a time machine to put things right now that happened in the past. I'm not saying going forward he's not the most awful type of Tory.
But if Starmer wins - the same people will be shouting he needs time to correct the wrongs too. (Not that he will in my opinion.)
however the idea that sunak can’t be accountable when he is at the head of a tory government that has been in power for what feels like several lifetimes is laughable.
Of course Rishi Sunak should be held accountable if, as the Labour poster claims, he doesn't think that nonces should go to jail.
But who actually believes the Labour poster?
Hey, at least it's united everyone on this thread - which is truly amazing.
Marina Hyde makes all the points above and a few more on the supposed dark magic of attack ads.
Aside from high horses can you actually publish something that isn't true?
How serious is this? Are we looking at the end of starmer? ( Fingers crossed)
It's the quid pro quo that comes when a change in leadership can be arranged by the party faithful and handed to the electorate without us having any say in the matter.
It's a Tory government shitshow, he's the leader of the government, therefore it's now his shitshow.
It’s a Tory government shitshow, he’s the leader of the government, therefore it’s now his shitshow.
What is a Tory government shitshow, that nounces don't go to prison? The Labour poster makes a very specific allegation - that Rishi Sunak does not believe that adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should go to prison.
If this is true it goes well beyond a Tory government shitshow.
I don’t have a problem with attacking sunak and think labour are often far too nice. But doing so in a way that is racist and pumps up far right culture war tropes is beyond the pale.
this
No, I've already said that these posters, especially the paedophile gangs ones are very poor and should not have been done. Twice in fact.
I'm addressing other's points about different levels of responsibility over different individuals and not having a time machine. He's now the leader so he either has to own it, or fix it. You can't just say it was the other boys that did it, when you've specifically asked to take charge. He gets some grace to do it, sure, and he may not be responsible for the decisions that put them where they are now, but as PM, a role he campaigned for twice, he is accountable.
And FWIW...IDK if Starmer designed the campaign, approved it, or even was aware. But he is leader of the LP and therefore accountable for them and the fall out.
How he addresses that in the shadow cabinet room or at party headquarters is up to him. Right now it's his name that's alongside them.
No, I’ve already said that these posters, especially the paedophile gangs ones are very poor and should not have been done. Twice in fact.
I’m addressing other’s points about different levels of responsibility over different individuals and not having a time machine.
Nah, the reference to him not having a time machine were very specific to that Labour poster, and the fact that it referred to court sentences going back 13 years.
As prime minister Rishi Sunak is responsible for a lot of things and should most definitely be held accountable. But the allegations made in that deplorable Labour poster are drivel.
IDK if Starmer designed the campaign, approved it, or even was aware.
Are you serious?
Absolutely. I don't know his involvement in it - do you?
Matters not, he's the leader of the LP and hence he's still accountable. If his team are putting crap like that out without him knowing he needs to look at his delegated authority matrix - both what and to whom.
If his team are putting crap like that out without him knowing
If you believe they would release highly controversial stuff like that without first clearing it with the leader you are hopessly deluding yourself.
You obviously believe it is possible that "his team" might have launched a "Nonces Vote Tory" campaign without discussing it with Starmer, because you suggested it was possible!
I can propose loads of things i don't think happened. It may have been designed by a focus group of 7 years old with crayons. Perhaps Binners did it and is now laying low. Can't say for certain though.
Irrespective of likelihood and what he did / didn't know - he's the boss and he's accountable for his team.
https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1644714653807788032?t=mXGd7ew4HNZxIx83mBOXrA&s=19
Third one. (Other two have twitter context warnings)
Sunak became an MP in 2015. He was appointed to the cabinet in 2018. I'm sure Sunak believes thieves should be punished.
Starmer goes on about integrity. Lmfao.
In bad taste but also shite adverts.
Why not go after all the wasted/embezzled money of the last few years? Rishi Sunak definitely is responsible for that!