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How about a winsome yet endearing contraction:
‘Brian’ (the 51st State of the USA)?
‘Hey, look at the State of Brian...’
We all the know the real answer for our future name… “Little Britain”.
I’m liking Brian
We could go back to the two Roman regions around 2nd Century AD where it was Brittania Superior and Brittania Inferior.
Except we wouldn't need the Superior part.
Difference being, the English hate everyone, the Welsh (and Scottish and Irish) just hate the English. And I increasingly can’t blame them.
its bullshit like this that stirs up emotional hatred. The “English” dont hate everyone so kindly back down from your generalisation on behalf of us English and stop feeding the trolls and far right.
The other sad thing about this thread is the general lack of national pride. We may be in a tricky political situation and not covered ourselves in European glory recently, but there’s a lot to be proud of on this small Island we populate. It’s about time we listened to the other nationalities And they way they carry their pride and be grateful for what what we have, promote our industrial, geographical and national treasures, be proud of The Lakes, the architecture, the fact that you could jump on an MTB and have a pint with the next man, the fact we are generally a kind hearted nation with a Gnusmas type spirit behind us.
This country is in general by no means the shower of shit some people make it out to be.
So glad you didn't include "sense of humour" in that list.
Kryton - right now I am ashamed to have a uk passport and if I could have a differnt one I would in a heartbeat.
disgusting racist government, PM and policies, disgusting lack of care for the poor, the old, this disabled.
Institutional bias and lies accepted as the truth, completely dysfunctional parliament
I loathe what the UK has become and have no pride in it whatsoever. I am ashamed to be considered british
I quite often say I’m Welsh these days rather from the UK.
It saves awkward conversations about how rediculous and racist the English are.
I don't, most people have no idea what I'm talking about; unless I'm in a country that plays rugby.
but there’s a lot to be proud of on this small Island we populate
I used to share that idea a few years ago but I really can't see it any more. There are a lot of people doing their best to be good and do good things but they're being drowned out by a baying mob. So no, not much to be proud of. We might be less racist overall than some places, for example, but our trajectory is downwards and that is shameful in itself.
Boristan - the country formerly known as village England. It's going to be so amazing.
Well this thread seems to be going as well as Ton hoped for.
I find when in continental europe that saying " I am from Scotland" gets a much better reception . Usually the conversation goes " are you english? " No I am from Scotland" then get lots of smiles and much better attitudes from folk
Well this thread seems to be going as well as Ton hoped for.
That's archaic nationalism for you. A brilliant mechanism for uniting downtrodden people, starting wars and killing millions unnecessarily. We need to get a grip on the reality that we're just a small to medium-sized state like lots of others with good points and bad points and stop trying to pretend that we have some god-given right to rule the world.
We're a bit like post-Wenger Arsenal. Had a brief period of outstanding success brought about by a confluence of geopolitical factors, fluke and leadership, now struggling to come to terms with the reality of being just another football club. Emery out!
I find when in continental europe that saying ” I am from Scotland” gets a much better reception . Usually the conversation goes ” are you english? ” No I am from Scotland” then get lots of smiles and much better attitudes from folk
How do you know? Have you tried saying that you're English instead to see what happens?
I find when in continental europe and talking to racists, saying ” I am from Scotland” gets a much better reception . Usually the conversation goes ” are you english? ” No I am from Scotland” then get lots of smiles and much better attitudes from folk
FTFY....
Well this thread seems to be going as well as Ton hoped for.
I asked a topical question on a chat forum. but as you know, asking a normal topical question on here is always going to create a bit of conflict. this place is a bit like Britain I reckon.
some good, some bad and some other.
Mattyfez spews forth;
I quite often say I’m Welsh these days rather from the UK.
It saves awkward conversations about [b]how rediculous and racist the English are.[/b]
There is nothing quite like a lazy generalisation to demonstrate your blatant racist views.
It’s going to be so amazing.
No it’s not.
benv
Member
As I was taught in school in 90s (west of Scotland).Great Britain = mainland Scotland, England and Wales.
British Isles = as above plus Ireland (the island) Scottish Islands, English Islands, Welsh Islands and the Isle of Man.
Not quite right. Isle of Wight is an Island off the south coast of England. It is a county of England and part of Great Britain. It is it’s own administrative authority (just) and has an active member of parliament. (I use the term active loosely here!).
Guys
Its obvious from the attitudes. ~"Are you english ?" is said with a scowl or a neutral expression. "I am from Scotland" is greeted with a smile.
its my experience over a long time and every year it gets more obvious
Nothing racist about it apart from the attitudes of some english that leads to this. Scots simply are liked more than English.
These days I usually say ‘I am from Yorkshire’....like the tea...
The other sad thing about this thread is the general lack of national pride. We may be in a tricky political situation and not covered ourselves in European glory recently, but there’s a lot to be proud of on this small Island we populate.
Yeah, kinda.
National Pride comes from within and being lead somewhat by a government that support its.. and then all the infrastructure such as teachers/doctors/police/fire/ambulance workers and the like.
As is, they're just normal people who are as pissed off with this current crop of contras who started the fire causing rifts and division.
And that filters down into the general public.
We all feel ostracised by a none interested government who only seek to create division and anger amongst it's public, rule by a stiff rod and control.
If you want a change, change the system.
I personally have changed my attitude drastically since 2016 referendum. Once I thought the UK was a fairly decent staidly progressive place to live and work. Fairly inclusive and always happy to help others. I don't see that anymore, I'm as angry and frustrated by the rise of the rightwing nut jobs and HATE them for that. I knew there was always an undertow of rightwing movement, but that was saved for the UKIP'ers and EDL types that are morons and I never mixed in those circles.... pretty much like any other European Country really (basically were the same/similar social mix) Now though, anytime I'm in waitrose I flinch at the fact I'm sharing space with a population 50/50 mix with racism and division, and you don't know who to trust anymore.
And that will never change now, not over time, not when I lay my head on my coffin pillow.
Causing rifts and division is what the conservatives want and they've certainly got it. Along with no national pride, along with feeling embarrassed about being a British citizen.
I'm lucky in one respect, I've learnt one valuable lesson.
^^^ What bikebuoy said! +1 👍
I’ve never understood national pride. Just comes across as a bit odd and a way to separate people to me. Clearly none of us are that proud of the bits of land we populate. If we were we’d spend a lot less time royally ****ing them up.
can you be ashamed to be british and still be a racist?
I think you manage both traits marvellously Ton! 😂😉
I guess so Ton - if you are EDL types and think we are too welcoming to brown folk. I think I may even have seen hard right memes that display this twisted logic
anytime I’m in waitrose
Stealth humblebrag
disgusting racist government, PM and policies, disgusting lack of care for the poor, the old, this disabled.
Yes, thats not me though is it, thats our Government. Who I didn't vote for. Thats kind of what I'm saying and bikebouy sums it up well, we've been out in this position but its not an individual view its political and its what people see in the news.
It didn't suddenly make the Lake District shit, London or Liverpool less of an architecture, Kent less of a garden, Devon less of a utopia. To flag me as a foreigner hating, right wing anti European lying tosspot is about as far away from the truth as you can get. That isn't "English" in the main, thats "Boris" or "Tommy".
Kryton – right now I am ashamed to have a uk passport and if I could have a differnt one I would in a heartbeat.
disgusting racist government, PM and policies, disgusting lack of care for the poor, the old, this disabled.
Institutional bias and lies accepted as the truth, completely dysfunctional parliament
I loathe what the UK has become and have no pride in it whatsoever. I am ashamed to be considered british
Much of my feeling right now. Total opposite to how I felt 4 years ago. And it’s getting worse. When travelling Europe I’ll try and pretend I’m Scottish as it seems I’ll look less pathetic
I’ll try and pretend I’m Scottish
Interesting you should do that rather than try to fix the problems you communicate. Its just burying your head in the sand.
You know, I feel I'm probably the least politically astute person on the forum sometimes, but I'm spending a lot of time getting into policy & outcome, news and fake news before I place my vote on the 12th rather then running away.
I’m probably the least politically astute person on the forum sometimes
give over. I hold that title pal.
Na - thats Binners!
To flag me as a foreigner hating, right wing anti European lying tosspot is about as far away from the truth as you can get. That isn’t “English” in the main, thats “Boris” or “Tommy”.
...and me. I'm ****ing sick of being called a racist just because I'm English. Any one who knows me knows that couldn't be further from the truth, but the high and mighty Scottish have lumped us all in the same boat. Which seems, well, pretty racist to me!!
Edit: actually no I'm being drawn down to that level, it's not all Scottish people I'm sure, but there are a few very vocal anti English on here and it really pisses me off!
give over. I hold that title pal.
Lol, fair play.
Its obvious from the attitudes. ~”Are you english ?” is said with a scowl or a neutral expression. “I am from Scotland” is greeted with a smile.
Well, as someone's who's 'English', in a typically English/British mongrel sort of way - I don't think genetically I'm more than about 1% native - I've rarely come across the whole 'scowl / neutral expression' thing when someone asks where I'm from.
Have you considered that maybe it's not about disliking English people, but finding it charming that you are from a small, proud nation? I once met a guy walking in the Picos and asked him where he was from, his response in a fantastically theatrical style, with a huge smile was to proclaim, arms proudly open wide, 'I am from Pamplona, in Navarra'. It made us smile too, he was, if you've missed the point, proud of being Basque. But it had nothing to do with antipathy towards any other nationality or location.
Maybe we need to stop defining ourselves and others in terms of nationality eh.
When travelling Europe I’ll try and pretend I’m Scottish as it seems I’ll look less pathetic
Americans, US Americans that is, I met Colombia used to pretend they were Canadian, but that was mostly to reduce the risk that they'd be kidnapped.
but finding it charming that you are from a small, proud nation
Aka Kiwi's. I've never met a Kiwi not proud of New Zealand, yet there are similar issues there as there are anywhere,.
Scots simply are liked more than English.
Careful TJ I think your prejudice is showing. Personally I've found that folk either like or dislike you based on your personality, rather than where you come from.
I was recently (3 weeks ago) in the Basque, and in the group of cyclists we had British, Dutch, Finnish, Spanish (obvs) and US citizens, at no point did any of us feel the need to pretend to be from anywhere else other than our home states. Over dinner all of us managed to speak about the good things and bad things of our respective homelands and listened to the thoughts of others about our own was viewed around the world. We managed to agree that Trump is an idiot, and that despite what the 2 Dutch thought, Verstappen is in fact a cheating-cheaty-cheater
So to return this into its geographical context, are the official government cartography experts Ordnance Survey right or wrong?
ie they say
The mainland of England & Wales & Scotland = Great Britain
but without Scotland it is no longer Great, but just = Britain.
@epicyclo, AFAIK, the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland become after the 1707 Act, The Kingdom of Great Britain. this lasted until about 1805 (ish I think) when it was replaced by the the name The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland
nickc
@epicyclo, AFAIK, the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland become after the 1707 Act, The Kingdom of Great Britain. this lasted until about 1805 (ish I think) when it was replaced by the the name The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland
I'm aware of that, but that's the political description, not the geographical.
Maybe what's bothering some is that they see the Great in GB as meaning super duper rather than a size adjective.
So to return this into its geographical context, is some random blogger on the official government cartography experts Ordnance Survey right or wrong?
FTFY.
We don't know who wrote that article, it could have been the cleaner for all we know. Aside from that one blog page can you find that definition anywhere else? I can't.
On the other hand, googling "britain definition" gives us:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/britain
another name for Great Britain, United Kingdom
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/britain
Great Britain.
Britannia(def 1). [which says it's the Roman name for the island of GB]
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Britain
Several definitions that repeat the above, and a hilariously unfortunate thesaurus entry. Go look. (-:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/britain
England, Scotland, and Wales
And many more all saying the same thing. Quite where the OS blogger got their 'technically just England and Wales' claim from I don't know and they don't cite any source for that. If there's some sort of legacy explanation from centuries ago then I can't find it.
So I'd say yes, by dint of weight of evidence to the contrary, they're wrong and it's false authority syndrome.
but without Scotland it is no longer Great, but just = Britain.
This is not a thing.
Cougar
...We don’t know who wrote that article, it could have been the cleaner for all we know. Aside from that one blog page can you find that definition anywhere else? I can’t.
I didn't look elsewhere. I figure if you want accurate information on a cartographical subject, the first place to look is the pre-eminent experts on that subject in the UK.
And why do you think an article on the official Ordnance Survey site is just some random blogger? Surely they're a bit more professional than to let some random person enter incorrect info on their official site?
So have you any evidence for that?
None of the other sources you quote have the same weight as OS IMO.
‘Great’ is a bit old fashioned. Maybe we should move with the times: ‘Fierce Britain’ or ‘Bear Britain’ would show the world we are still cool and a force to be reckoned with
How about "**** You"?
I agree with Kryton that we have some wonderful geography it's just that it is let down by some of the people occupying it. I thought we were a fairly easy going middle of the road bunch up until 3 years ago. The scales have fallen from my eyes.
And why do you think an article on the official Ordnance Survey site is just some random blogger? Surely they’re a bit more professional than to let some random person enter incorrect info on their official site?
I have no idea. Have you? Presumably it's "Gemma" the Social Media Manager, or going off the comments "Paul" who's a cartographer.
None of the other sources you quote have the same weight as OS IMO.
One unqualified sentence by an anonymous writer on a blog post carries more weight than literally every other source on the entire Internet?
Here, hang about. They've edited it! That "technically..." line has disappeared.
I wonder if they've got wind of this discussion from their website logs? Hiya Gemma! *waves*
And why do you think an article on the official Ordnance Survey site is just some random blogger?
Have you read all the comments on that blog post? The amount of changes made to the original descriptions and complete lack of references to source material suggests a lack of authority on the subject (from the author at least).
Apologies if anyone has already posted this.
In less than a minute Mike's video is managing to make my teeth itch. I think (happy to be corrected though) Wales is De facto part of the Kingdom of England, and has been from the 16thC, hence why I thought, It's flag isn't included and the Act of Union doesn't mention it?
Blimey, this appears to be more complicated the I ever gave it credit though...
Well, at least the Isle of Wight gets a mention.
Cougar
I have no idea. Have you? Presumably it’s “Gemma” the Social Media Manager, or going off the comments “Paul” who’s a cartographer.
And these employees of the national mapping agency are wrong, are they?
One unqualified sentence by an anonymous writer on a blog post carries more weight than literally every other source on the entire Internet?
That is very odd reasoning. You seem determined to convince me that the government's mapping agency Ordnance Survey doesn't know its job.
Tell you what, seeing as you think the people who wrote that entry are wrong, why don't you contact OS and inform them of their ineptitude.
And then post up the response. Then I'll believe you.
Sounds like your objection is political rather than geographical.
Well, they’ve removed their wrong assertion now… ask yourself why.
kelvin
Well, they’ve removed their wrong assertion now… ask yourself why.
Avoiding a political issue with Little Englanders during an election, perchance?
Just shows the mighty reach of STW though, eh? 🙂