[Closed] Should the Red Arrows be scrapped?

Yes, they're part of our bag of tricks. How important, that's another question. At the end of the day I'd rather they binned them and provided more support for troops on the ground, but binning them doesn't even come close to the cost of 1 plane, or retro-fitting a single chinook, so it seems like small price to pay to have a great "advert".

Red Arrow costs are almost entirely met by sponsors like BAe. This one comes up every time defence cuts are announced and every time they get the OK cos £9m/year is unbelievably cheap to run a fleet of Hawks and the pilots and it's fantastic publicity - well proven inspiration to join the forces.

Keep them. There's too much emphasis on stealth and that in modern warfare, it just seems cowardly.

We should use the Red Arrows with bombs or whatever they use to dazzle the enemy.

Also, we should have really slow planes like Spitfires to strike fear into the hearts of the (insert oil/mineral/whatever it is we're after these days foreign sorts) coz we don't run.

yes. they're t@ssers. i met one once so i know.

Depends, if it comes out the defence budget then it's a decision for RAF bosses, if on the other hand it comes out of a different budget (I dunno, Shiny Red Planes, or something like that) that could be used for something else... then yep, nothing should be sacred.

ro - Member

yes. they're t@ssers. i met one once so i know.

that's funny ro cos I met a really nice one once and I have therefore surmised that the sun shines out of all their rear ends. 😆

more seriously, 9 million is a drop in the ocean compared to the rest of the RAF and indeed probably much less than what it would cost without huuge sponsorship and what they charge for appearing at airshows (BBB excepted).

How much does it cost to run the queen out of interest? There is an argument that says the 'investment' in the royals is good for the country as it brings in tourists and interest in the UK, and part of the national identity, but of course this is very hard to measure. I would have thought a similar albeit much smaller thing was applicable to the cost/benefit of the red arrows.

Would we be having the same debate about the battle of britain memorial flight?

I think there's some figures that show the royals don't bring in that much in the way of Tourism...I suspect that if you suggested to the tories, that they needed to be cut they'd have an attack of the vapours...

How can you tell if someone is in the Red Arrows? You don't have to... They will tell you!

Oh, how we laughed.

I'm liking the idea of bringing back Spitfires to use as close air support though. The spams used A1 Skyraiders in 'Nam, so we could definitely use something similar. They'd be a lot cheaper than all those fast jet things too.

How much does it cost to run the queen out of interest?

The whole Royal Family costs each UK taxpayer 62p per year.

Bloody hell is this the Jeremy Vine Show, I agree though the money could be put to better use, although the Red Arrows to draw large crowds and are very popular, they flew over Rhyl at the weekend the only downside to that was they had no bombs to drop. 😉 😆

I think there's some figures that show the
royals don't bring in that much in the way of
Tourism...

Utter piffle-paffle and nonsense.

Go to just about any country in the world and ask locals what they know about the UK: it'll be something like bowlers hats, phone boxes, the Queen, Man Unitied, BBC

Ask them what they'd do on a long vacation in the UK and "see the Queen" is highly likely to figure somewhere.

You can rent the red arrows for £6000 I heard.
They even had a woman driver this year, gosh!
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The whole Royal Family costs each UK taxpayer 62p per year.

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8124022.stm ]It's actually 69p as of last year[/url], and doesn't include the cost of security. Which I'd imagine is a good few quid. Convenient that they left that bit off, eh? And the rest...

Can't see why the Red Arrows can't be funded by charity. If people are that passionate about them, then I'm sure they'd be able to raise the money. £8.8 million here, £5m there, etc, then maybe the country could save a bit without having to cut so many badly needed services.

Bloody hell is this the Jeremy Vine Show,

Always.

Ask them what they'd do on a long vacation in the UK and "see the Queen" is highly likely to figure somewhere.

Yeah, but they're not actually going to see the Queen, are they? Just look at her wonderful house. Meaning the Queen is actually redundant.

GrahamS perhaps I should have said Tourism [i]pounds[/i]. Costs nothing to stand outside Buck house...Legoland on the otherhand....

I thinks there's scope to reduce the cost of all the Royal Hangers-on. Can any-one tell me the point of the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester?

Go to just about any country in the world and ask locals what they know about the UK: it'll be something like bowlers hats, phone boxes, the Queen, Man Unitied, BBC

Why can't we get Man Utd to fly the planes and be run by the BBC, if we can get the Queen to do a wing walk dressed in a bowler hat and in a phone box then we've got the whole England experience ready to export.

Let the good times roll people! Keerrching$£$£$£

Ask them what they'd do on a long vacation in the UK and "see the Queen[b]'s house[/b]" is highly likely to figure somewhere.

I'm liking the idea of bringing back Spitfires to use as close air support though.

Already happening!
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Keep them, I'm sure they generate revenue when they do displays abroad.

Your BBC story is from 2009. It dropped to 62p for 2009-2010:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/theroyalfamily/7872052/Cost-of-Royal-Family-drops-7p-per-person.html

And whether they actually see the Queen, or pay any money to access Royal households, is largely irrelevant.

The image of the Queen and the Royals is part of the reason they come and spend their dosh here. It's a big part of our "brand image" as a tourist destination. They certainly don't come for the weather!

This discussion is closed..

according to the Telegraph a few days a go The RAF is to be scrapped.

Ok so it's 'only' 62p. Big deal. It isn't really, it's several times that. We're just not told that.

People come for the [i]history[/i] of the monarchy. People don't got to Rome expecting to see Julius Caesar, do they? They don't go to Egypt to see the Pharaohs, do they? No, they go because of the history. The Royals could be quietly killed off without it affecting British tourism at all.

Keep them. They put on a damned good show and they are quite often reponsible for large crowds turning up at events which are raising money for charities (RNLI was the last benficiary of such a display the last time I went to see them)

The costs pale into insignificance compared to a lot of things and I they are a good way of bringing out a bit of patriotism (even I get struck by that bit!)

People come for the history of the monarchy. People don't got to Rome expecting to see Julius Caesar, do they? They don't go to Egypt to see the Pharaohs, do they? No, they go because of the history. The Royals could be quietly killed off without it affecting British tourism at all.

Yeah, it isn't like tourists don't go to Versailles because 1789 happened is it?

no

Versailles is rather more attractive than Buck Palace; if we got rid of the monarchy what would it become? A museum to the royalty maybe so still benefiting from the concept of the Royals.

I was standing on a mound, at the end of the runway when the Red 'Harras displayed at the Fanborough Air show the other week. They took off and stayed low and were virtually at our eye level as they passed, and the low pass stunts they did left us literally in the smoke trails (Yes it is diesel they use for the colour. You can smell it!)
Now, I've seen them many times but that was frikkin awesome, dude. They just filled the sky.
EVERYTHING else we saw after that was slightly lame, including the B52.

£8.8 million?

Utter bargain. 😀

I'd much rather they scrapped Trident.

Re the Royal Family - kill them and take all their billions of assets, it's not like they earned any of it 😐

It's actually 69p as of last year, and doesn't include the cost of security. Which I'd imagine is a good few quid. Convenient that they left that bit off, eh? And the rest...

Nevermind the royals, what about President Tony? He spends a few years comprehensively winding up a large portion of the country, on the basis of what Bush / God / Whoever's paying him consultancy fees said, and now we're paying for his security, bulletproof cars etc.

The Royals spend a good portion of their time gladhanding foreign dignitaries and citizens at least...

[i]I'd much rather they scrapped Trident.[/i]

Again, if Trident was actually paid for from the Defence budget, then I suspect many many Forces folk would agree with you...May happen yet.

Keep them, I'm sure they generate revenue when they do displays abroad.

. They put on a damned good show and they are quite often reponsible for large crowds turning up at events which are raising money for charities

they are a good way of
bringing out a bit of patriotism (even I get
struck by that bit!)

I'm getting confused which arguments are for the Red Arrows and which are for royalty 🙂

yes. they're t@ssers. i met one once so i know.

anyway:

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get rid? don't be soft.

Random fact - my dad developed the dye they use for the coloured smoke when he was a research chemist at ICI.

I take great delight in winding the missus up about the RAF being scrapped and split between the Army (rotary wing stuff) and Navy (fixed wing stuff) and that she'll soon be expected to wear either DPM or Navy blue. Also that all the fast jets are generally over-rated, a la Yanks in Nam what's needed for proper CAS is a well armoured, low flying, slow flying aircraft that can carry lots of bombs and bullets so we should scrap Tornados and Typhoons and get more of the turboprop Tucanos she works with at the Flying Training School.

Even she says most of the blue RAF think the Red Arrows are arrogant, although they are damn good pilots. But then again she didn't get a posting to work with them that she'd asked for...

That's Fowey isn't it? I'm going there next week for the regatta and Red Arrows action so don't bin 'em before then!!

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I love the Red Arrows, always have since a kid! 🙂

Send them over to Afghan, and they can do a few loop the loops and mix it up a bit 😉

Even she says most of the blue RAF think the Red Arrows are arrogant

I suspect when your job involves flying a jet upside-down at high speed directly towards some other jets, then a degree of self-belief and confidence is probably quite helpful.

Can you wait until the end of August so they do the prize giving fly by at the Big Bike Bash again please.

There are better savings to be made in defence. Keep the Red Arrows and put the kabosh on the goddamn stupid PFI agreements MOD have been locked into. Also, shoot any seconded management consultants on sight.

Job's a good 'un.

If all you know of it is 'they do swooshy flying and colours and stuff and it costs £Xm' then you might see it that way. If you see it in context and look at all the other facets, then you might see it another way.

Given the role the RA play in UK PLC as ambassadors, goodwill, shopfront for UK defence industry, PR, recruiting, tourism support etc then it is very different. If you can see beyond the headlines and do your own 'so what' analysis things are more complex. I am always dismayed when supposedly intelligent people read headlines and then not think even one step further.

[i] I am always dismayed when supposedly intelligent people read headlines and then not think even one step further.[/i]

You know how stupid the average man in the street is?

Half of them are even dumber!

That's Fowey isn't it?

In a strange coincidence, they just flew very low over my office in Newport. I looked up and thought "Awesome :D" Far more than £8m is wasted on far worse. Was it something like £400m to pay kids to stay in school (EMA)?

We sold them all over the world Australia, Bahrain, Canada, Finland, India, Indonesia, Kenya, Kuwait, Malaysia, Oman, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Switzerland, Indonesia, United Arab Emirates and Zimbabwe.

I strongly suspect the Red Arrows had a lot to do with the sales and £8.8M to show case British Industry is pennies when you consider the number of UK jobs the aerospace industry supports in the UK.

Britain needs industries that make thing, Germany who make things went into and came out of recession much later and earlier than us.

An economy based on service industries…