I think so but I'm a bit biased.What do you all think?
It’s all a bit silly.
It will have been going on for years at all clubs (where vision is easier)
The only advantage it possibly could give is in set piece situations but even then it’s a will they won’t they.
A lot of premier league level clubs it would be impossible to see what’s happening in training as cameras etc are banned, and the training areas are out of site of public areas
Although when my son played at Arsenals training ground people were watching/videoing from on looking flats
All will happen is that lower league clubs will now put higher fences around training grounds if they really think it’s worth it
No, because as I said in the football thread
Firstly because they haven't admitted it. The story is of someone filming a training session from a publicly accessible place, being challenged by a member of Middlesborough's staff, photos and CCTV of the filmer then being matched to a person on the Southampton website, etc. It seems damning and they have been charged by the FA but as of yet, not found guilty. I'm not defending the act but to kick them out before that's been given due process would be wrong. Even more so now there are suggestions (but may be clever delaying tactic) that the staff member was acting alone and out of control of anything the club had asked them to do, so now they are asking for time to do internal investigations.
Secondly - there is precedent, cuddly Uncle Marcelo and Leeds, where the penalty has been a fine, and in the Olympics (different governance, FIFA) where points deducted and a year's ban on the coach. So even if admitted, to kick them out of the playoff would seem unlikely.
It will have been going on for years at all clubs (where vision is easier)
Secondly - there is precedent, cuddly Uncle Marcelo and Leeds, where the penalty has been a fine
But at the time Leeds (and other teams – MB just openly admitted it) did it, there wasn't a specific rule in place. Following the Leeds case, the EFL introduced rule 127, which specifically forbids any attempt to watch opponents in training in the days leading up a game.
that the staff member was acting alone and out of control of anything the club had asked them to do, so now they are asking for time to do internal investigations.
I think the best Boro could hope for is that the 'acting alone' is proved to be a load of tosh, and Saints have been at it all season long. Still cannot see anything more than a fine. What else could the EFL do? Award a walkover in the first leg as that's effectively the tie that may have been directly affected? That would put Boro in the playoff final (awarded 3-0 win for first leg puts them through on aggregate) and the legal ramifications of that could take years to sort out.
I reckon if anything they'll get a fine and suspended points deduction if they don't make it to the PL and are naughty again, the points deduction takes effect.
Also, if Boro hadn't mucked up their season in the first place this would be a moot point.
Also, if Boro hadn't mucked up their season in the first place this would be a moot point.
Well it wouldn't – they would have done the same against whichever team they were up against in the play-off.
The whole of football, sport even, is all sliding doors moments. If Boro hadn't collapsed in the latter part of the season they'd be up as of right. If they hadn't been so wasteful in the first half at home they'd have been out of sight. For all the spying Southampton are alleged to have done, they got absolutely mullered in that 45 minutes. All ifs, buts and maybes and I can't see anything as draconian as expulsion from the playoffs being a sanction.
It wouldn't be fair on Hull either. They (their coaching and analytics staff) will be all over videos of Southampton right now working out their system and set plays and how to counter it. They can't be doing the same for Boro in case there's a reversal. What do Boro's players do - a day of recovery today and then in to prep for a game they almost certainly won't play. It's a very sordid affair, if indeed it happened at all.
What was said between Ayling and the S'oton centre back that caused that melee - discriminatory language alleged?
Although when my son played at Arsenals training ground people were watching/videoing from on looking flats
I assume a while back since no flats near the London Colney ground (fairly boring bit of bridleway though which does link through to some okay stuff).
Mr Gibson has hired a top Barrister to represent the club.Thus is only just starting .
Well it wouldn't – they would have done the same against whichever team they were up against in the play-off.
Quite, although I was actually meaning from a Boro perspective.
News just in. They have been booted and a 4pt deduction next season.
Final goes ahead Saturday which suggests that they are not appealing...
Final goes ahead Saturday which suggests that they are not appealing...
No. Appeal is on Wednesday
They were also accused of spying on Oxford and Ipswich and admitted all 3 charges. Will be interesting to hear the outcome of the appeal tomorrow - can't see the disqualification from the play-off final being overturned, but maybe the 4 point deduction for next season maybe a penalty too much IMO.
Wow, very surprised. If City are found guilty of their 113 infractions, by that level of punishment they'll start next season away against the Dog and Duck in the Manchester Sunday league division 8
Final goes ahead Saturday which suggests that they are not appealing...
No. Appeal is on Wednesday
Missed that bit!
Didn't expect this to appear on here. As a Boro fan...gerrin. Up the Boro! Southampton got what they deserved!
Don’t all clubs do this all the time?
Don’t all clubs do this all the time?
They scout the actual matches and stuff however there's a strict ban on trying to observe training in the 48hrs before any match.
I'm sure it still goes on - as with most crimes the clumsy bit is getting caught...
It’s devastating. Ohs mother is a big Southampton fan. She was going to stay at ours to travel to the game, then stay for the rest of the weekend, meaning Id be out riding whilst they did garden centre type stuff.
UTB!💪
I can see how this would feel harsh to Southampton fans but given the financial rewards of winning the playoffs a fine wasn't really going to cut the mustard.
But if man city manage to get away with 113 financial charges and keep multiple league and cup titles then that won't really seem to have parity with the Southampton decision.
Multiple times they broke the rules.Alot more to come out as well
Don’t all clubs do this all the time?
They scout the actual matches and stuff however there's a strict ban on trying to observe training in the 48hrs before any match.
I'm sure it still goes on - as with most crimes the clumsy bit is getting caught...
72 hrs I believe.
I can see how this would feel harsh to Southampton fans but given the financial rewards of winning the playoffs a fine wasn't really going to cut the mustard.
I’m sure that will be of great comfort to a mate of a mate, he’s out about £2k in booked travel expenses, as he lives in LA.
No TV/prize money and a whopping points deduction next year would be a better solution imo, then use that money to compensate boro/other teams affected
Agree that a fine wouldn't really cut it despite being the sanction previously on Leeds, I wasn't aware until these threads that the rules changed in the aftermath so past sanctions are no longer a reliable indicator. But still surprised (and impressed) the EFL had the balls to do it. I do hope there isn't a long drawn out battle of appeals and CAS and whatever.
I'm also 'glad' the others fessed to are 'non-controversial' - Ipswich went up anyway and Oxford were relegated by a long way so the benefit to cheating against them can't really be said to be the cause of the relegation. Although....and I'll have to check this....the draw vs Ipswich screwed up my accumulator that weekend so I reckon they owe me about £100. I'll write a letter shortly.
I also found out the actual guilty party is a young intern, who's been named by others. If unsanctioned by the club, even if the club got him to do it, that could be career destroying and (some) fans being like they are, dangerous. I hope for all the part he played he is looked after. It's just a (very lucrative) game after all.
Lastly, interested by the coaching report that came out. Unless it leads directly to a plan along the lines of 'rope a dope in the first leg, let them burn themselves out because scouting suggests their strikers can't hit a cow's arse with a shovel, and then win it in the second. And they're very susceptible to spawny cross shots that their keeper will wave past like it's the wrong bus' then the real reason Boro aren't in the final as of right is because they didn't do enough over two legs to win the tie.
(that's fan banter, glad justice has been done really)
No TV/prize money and a whopping points deduction next year
Trouble with this solution is that without the TV money a club simply can't survive in the Premier League. All player contracts etc include a wage boost on promotion and ticket sales alone wouldn't cover it.
Admittedly, given that apparently the Southampton players are looking at suing the club for loss of increase in wages anyway they could be pretty screwed anyway.
The EFL can't impose a points deduction on the PL either and even if they could you are then essentially confirming relegation straight back down so players would be less likely to sign/stay.
No easy solution however sadly, I don't think you can factor in any inconvenience to the fans who want to attend the final when deciding the punishment.
I’m sure that will be of great comfort to a mate of a mate, he’s out about £2k in booked travel expenses, as he lives in LA.
Very sad for fans, but with that already being a prospect in advance of the first leg, and certainly by the time they won the tie I'd have made sure I had a suitable cancellation / travel insurance policy.
It is a very lucrative business these days, not a game. I wonder how many scouts are now needing to wear glasses that are smart since their eyesight has deteriorated so suddenly...
Admittedly, given that apparently the Southampton players are looking at suing the club for loss of increase in wages anyway they could be pretty screwed anyway.
Ooof!
Admittedly, given that apparently the Southampton players are looking at suing the club for loss of increase in wages anyway they could be pretty screwed anyway.
Ooof!
LATE EDIT: But I don't see how they could win, as they weren't guaranteed winning the final anyway.
It sounds like it wasn't a one off and they were serial offenders throughout the course of the whole season. So it's just stupid as they knew it was against the rules but did it on a consistent basis anyway.
Bang to rights, really!
I’m sure that will be of great comfort to a mate of a mate, he’s out about £2k in booked travel expenses, as he lives in LA.
If the players are suing the club, then surely the fans could also mount a class action for costs incurred for travel, hotels etc?
If the players are suing the club, then surely the fans could also mount a class action for costs incurred for travel, hotels etc?
My thoughts exactly. Deny the appeal, maybe give them the 4 points back, and and order them to reimburse fans for expenses they can't reclaim instead
As a Boro fan - over the moon that we are going to Wembley and have finally had a decision in our favour from the footballing authorities (1997 is not forgotten).
However I'll be first to admit that we don't deserve to be there. We've thrown away far too many opportunities this season and you have to say that Southampton beat us because they were the better team.
It is just now chaos in our house, trying to rearrange plans and buy tickets etc at the last minute. Whilst I'm eligible for a ticket quite high up in the pecking order, I can only buy a ticket for my Dad from 6pm tomorrow. He would have to set off Friday morning to reach Wembley...
If it sticks, they could lose £200mn according to The Times.
^Good.Vile football club,fans and manager
If it sticks, they could lose £200mn according to The Times.
Lastly, interested by the coaching report that came out. Unless it leads directly to a plan along the lines of 'rope a dope in the first leg, let them burn themselves out because scouting suggests their strikers can't hit a cow's arse with a shovel, and then win it in the second. And they're very susceptible to spawny cross shots that their keeper will wave past like it's the wrong bus' then the real reason Boro aren't in the final as of right is because they didn't do enough over two legs to win the tie.
As a Boro fan, I'll concede that this pretty much nails it.
Blimey, more Boro fans on here than I imagined (I can't claim to be one any more - used to go to Ayresome quite a lot but have never been to the Riverside apart from popping into the shop)
Hmm. I'm not one for coincidence... 
And they've lost the appeal with no further options open to them.
So it's stinky Boro and 'ull
You obviously haven't been here for forty years.
And the FA can now charge individuals in the club - manager, intern analyst etc - with various misdemeanours which could include bans from football (precedent is FIFA banned Canadian women's coach and 2 officials for using drones to spy at Olympics). Other outcomes will likely include loss of key players, sponsorship, and overall reputation, reduced crowds with further losses of income, and so on into a downward spiral of doom and falling foul of the Financial Fair Play Regulations leading to more points losses, and relegations (following the Sheffield Wednesday path).
Although when my son played at Arsenals training ground people were watching/videoing from on looking flats
I assume a while back since no flats near the London Colney ground (fairly boring bit of bridleway though which does link through to some okay stuff).
Shenley - I played there every week in the late 90s and I'm pretty sure there were no flats.
EFL fairly blunt in where the blame lies here. Manager will have to go surely, and others who knew. They were conducting their own investigation, if they want any credibility they need to get someone in to do that IMHO.
Quite laughable defence in places, including 'Didn't know we weren't allowed to'; 'the footage we got wasn't useful anyway' and 'yes, we saw their training but we were shit in the first leg still'
