[Closed] shot gun license?

Join a clay shooting club, talk to a land owner/farmer etc

That crossed my mind but I doubt the things been fired for twenty years! I'd rather not lie too.

You don't need a reason for a shotgun, although you will be verbally asked - just say shooting clays, not shooting burglars, although I'm sure collecting is just as valid.

Two photos and a signature from someone who knows you who is vaguely reputable, and a gun cabinet is all you need. That and about £50.

I'm afraid you'll struggle to keep it for sentimental reasons. The Police will want proof of a good reason for keeping it - just like what Ski said.

I'm afraid you'll struggle to keep it for sentimental reasons. The Police will want proof of a good reason for keeping it - just like what Ski said.

lol, people giving advice about something they obviously dont know.

you need a reason for a rifle. its your right to own a shotgun (im not sure if right is the right word here, but you get the point. basically the police have to have a reason not to give you a shotgun license.)

If you are not planning to use it, can you not get the shotgun decommissioned?

(someone on here might know?)

[img] [/img]

So could I find a suitable plod to ask with prejudicing a future application?

the rules state you need a good reason for having it

No that is incorrect.

The Police like to crack opn that this is the case, but it is not. There were some test cases a number of years ago. The Police had to retract their position.

Assuming that your friend's brother has declared it on his ticket, then get him to take it to a registered firearms dealer (RFD) (you can't do this because you do not have a ticket, therefore it is illegal for you to be in possession of it).

Ask the RFD to proof the piece and see if it is possible to deactivate it permanently. A good gunsmith should be able to either weld the firing pins in position permanently or possible weld the locking lugs shut. It will then need proofing again and a deactivation certificate can be issued. Once it's declared as a "de-act" then you don't need a ticket to keep it.

So could I find a suitable plod to ask with prejudicing a future application?

A_A

I seem to remember that you a S Wales? Speak to their firearms licensing people in Bridgend. I found them very reasonable (but previous experience (Devon & Cornwall Police) warns me that this is very dependent on the officer involved).

Anyhow - I'd tread carefully with what you disclose. The situation you describe is unclear on current ownership / custodianship (don't state publically on here!). There is a mandatory 5 year prison sentence for holding a shotgun without a licence - focuses the mind...

Don't have it deactivated! The current standards for deactivation completely ruin the gun.

Rather than speaking to the police, if you're concerned about disclosing something that could be prejudicial, try the likes of BASC - they have licensing experts who can advise (if you're a member) and also have a whole host of info on their website you can download even if not a member...

[url= http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/firearms/certificate-forms-and-fees.cfm ]BASC firearms[/url]

Don't have it deactivated! The current standards for deactivation completely ruin the gun.

I'd echo that - especially if it has any antique value.

IIRC, guns over a certain age can be taken off the licence without being deactivated...

You can also get a Section 7 FAC for collectable weapons, but that's a whole different ball game to a Shotgun Certificate.

Northumberland like to know the reason why you want to own one. Your doors and windows need certain locks on them too or at least I did.

Deactivating it is akin to destroying it, its sacrilege.

As others have said, you don't need to justify good reason for a shotgun, and even if you did, then its value as a family heirloom is a perfectly reasonable one.

Northumberland like to know the reason why you want to own one.

Politely decline?

Or, provide the answer, but politely point out that they are straying beyond the requiremetns of the law by asking...?

[url= http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/firearms/certificate-forms-and-fees.cfm ]useful stuff on here[/url]

Including:

[b]The Firearms Act 1968 states very clearly that "The application shall be in the form provided". This means that the official Shotgun Certificate application form, Firearms Form 103, is the only one you are required to complete. The Firearms Enquiry Officer (FEO) may ask for clarification of your answers to questions on the form but he may not ask you to complete any other forms or ask you to get anyone else to do so.[/b]

The most common unauthorised extra questions relate to your reasons for wishing to possess shotguns. The facts surrounding this are as follows:-

• The Firearms Acts are based on the rebuttable presumption against granting a shotgun certificate i.e. that every applicant has a good reason for possessing shotguns unless the Chief Constable is satisfied there may be a danger to public safety. As Home Office Guidance (11.9) says, "The Act does NOT require the applicant to make out a good case for being granted a certificate but rather extends the chief officer’s ground for refusing one. A chief officer should therefore need to
make further enquiries only when it comes to his notice that there may be genuine doubts about an applicant’s reasons for possessing a shotgun."

• If you are pressed, ask for written reasons for the questions. They may talk about "elementary co-operation with the licensing authority" as recommended by Lord Cullen but elementary co-operation does not necessarily include answering questions which are not part of the normal process. If questioning becomes aggressive or rude,
ask for the name, rank and number of the officer concerned and then politely terminate the interview saying that before going any further you wish to contact BASC for advice.

• If the FEO asks where and what you shoot, then a general reply will suffice. "General" means sporting or competition use such as rough shooting, pest and
vermin control, wildfowling, game shooting, clay shooting etc. You are definitely NOT required to get landowners or clay shooting club officials to sign papers confirming this nor should you give the FEO their names or telephone numbers unless, as set out above, the police have some reason to be suspicious. If they have such suspicions then they should explain them to you. If the reply is that, "It is the chief
constable’s policy", that is not an adequate explanation and is certainly not grounds for making intrusive inquiries.

from
[url= http://www.basc.org.uk/en/utilities/document-summary.cfm/docid/61EEDFF2-7222-4615-BB4B187BAD081659 ]BASC Shotgun guide[/url]

Beat you to it 21 minutes earlier rkk!

Northumberland like to know the reason why you want to own one.

Politely decline?

Or, provide the answer, but politely point out that they are straying beyond the requiremetns of the law by asking...?

Correct. They're also on dubious ground insisting on the window/door locks...

ahh - didn't follow your link 🙂

Correct. They're also on dubious ground insisting on the window/door locks..

There are such things as local directives.

[i]Don't have it deactivated! The current standards for deactivation completely ruin the gun.[/i]

Er, isn't that the aim - otherwise you could easily activate it again...

Simple choice really, de-activate it and keep - or sell it. Anything else is either illegal or requires that you get a licence and continue to hold one (and pay) until you die.

Probably looking at a 3 month wait at least. There's a possibility it's a bit of a shed, and it'll just sit in the cabinet forever? Is it a OU or side by side?

There's a possibility it's a bit of a shed, and it'll just sit in the cabinet forever? Is it a OU or side by side?

I doubt its worth anything, its aside by side.

Thanks for the info anyway everyone.

Getting a ticket is pretty straight forward. Fill in the forms, include payment, send to chief plod, await phone call and home visit . You don't need to provide a reason for having a shotgun, and most forces wont ask. As long as you havn't served longer than 2 years in prison( could be 3 years not sure ) then all should go well. Infact the prison part is a bit of a joke really because i used to shoot quite a lot with a bloke from Stoke who had served a prison sentence when he was a youth, applied for a ticket in his 40's and got one. So just goes to show it's a messed up system really.If you arn't going to use the gun then i wouldn't waste the money, Cabnets are quite pricey,add in the cost of the ticket and it adds up to an expensive ornament really.

I doubt its worth anything, its aside by side.

Could be a lovely english sidelock ejector with a sublime bit of well figured walnut, fully case hardened/English scroll or game scene engraving with a few thou of proof left?
It sounds like you don't have the knowledge to value it or the know-how to tell if it's still in proof or not.

Unless its been in a damp shed there is no reason at all for it to be in anything but useable condition, assuming it was when last used. "0 years is nothing.
SGC is straight forward to get, you don't even need a cabinet to apply but you won't get the ticket until a Bobbie has tried and failed to yank one off the wall. Only aquire it from some one with a licence or register on a shotgun forum that has a legal section to fins out how to aquire it from some one who has it without a SGC. DO NOT disclose any names at all.
De activating is expensive and unless the gun has sentimental value not worth it. Its cheaper to buy one already done if you just want a wall hanger.
Whilst you do not have to say why you need a gun it can make the interview with the law more friendly if you avoid confrontation. Just say you have been offered some vermin or pigeon shooting or research a clay club.

It sounds like you don't have the knowledge to value it or the know-how to tell if it's still in proof or not.

and it appears you cannot read whats your point?

Correct. They're also on dubious ground insisting on the window/door locks..

There are such things as local directives.

There may be, but they don't supersede the law and not complying with local directives such as not fitting certain locks to doors and windows would not be sufficient justification to reject an application for an SGC - have a read of the the stuff at the BASC links about what constitutes secure storage...

I doubt its worth anything, its aside by side.

Please tell me it doesn't say Holland & Holland on it anywhere??? 😯

where are you based AA? well worth researching local clay clubs and/or pheasant syndicates in the area as although its down to the police to find a reason not to grant you a certificate instead of you giving them a reason to have one... they'll ask and its not going to hurt having an answer prepared 🙂

worth having a little think about who you could use as your counter signature for your application... i got the local town councillor for the environment who's also a company director, but i know people who've had their mate sign it; again, lots of advice online about it all if you throw your questions into google.

YOu could always have it 'de-commissioned' soit doesn't work and then you wouldn't need a licence, gun cabinet, etc.

and it appears you cannot read whats your point?

I can read thanks, it's one of the few things that I managed to learn in school.
My point is the OP 'thinks its not worth anything' but doesnt know enough to really tell. he knows very little about shotguns and has no idea if it's in proof or not which is also an important point as out of proof means it can only be sold to an RFD so if a dealer measures it and it's out it cannot then be passed between 2 shotgun certificate owners.
There is also the question of value, it could be a crappy baikal worth nothing or top end English gun like a Greener, Westley Richards or similar.

Unless my father put all the money he had into the gun and more I doubt its worth anything.

The first bulletpoint (bdumtish) of the BASC advice contains at least one error because it doesn't make sense. I'd be a bit wary about being completely cock (tish) sure of its accuracy (thangyew).

The first bulletpoint (bdumtish) of the BASC advice contains at least one error because it doesn't make sense. I'd be a bit wary about being completely cock (tish) sure of its accuracy (thangyew).

How so? It makes perfect sense to me - you don't need good reason to own a shotgun/apply for a shotgun licence, but if the Five-Oh feel that the issue of a ticket could cause a nuisance or danger to the public they have the right to refuse. Fairly straightforward IMHO.

AA, where abouts in the country are you... ?

Yet at the same time Section 28(1A)(b) of the 1968 Act (special provisions about [u]shotgun[/u] certificates) says 'No such certificate shall be granted or renewed if the chief officer of police is satisfied that the applicant does not have a good reason for possessing, purchasing or acquiring one.' (A separate subsection to the ones about public safety and prohibited persons).

It's never straightforward!

How so?

Firstly, because the Home Office guidance (if correctly quoted) seems to describe a rebuttable presumption [i]in favour of [/i]granting a shotgun certificate, not a rebuttable presumption against granting one.

Secondly, and you might think this is a bit technical, if there's no requirement for the applicant to make a case for the granting of a shotgun certificate, then it's not that there is a presumption of having a good reason for possessing shotguns, it's that the issue of reasons doesn't come into it at all unless the officer in question entertains "genuine doubts".

• The Firearms Acts are based on the rebuttable presumption against granting a shotgun certificate i.e. that every applicant has a good reason for possessing shotguns unless the Chief Constable is satisfied there may be a danger to public safety. As Home Office Guidance (11.9) says, "The Act does NOT require the applicant to make out a good case for being granted a certificate but rather extends the chief officer’s ground for refusing one. A chief officer should therefore need to
make further enquiries only when it comes to his notice that there may be genuine doubts about an applicant’s reasons for possessing a shotgun."

AA, where abouts in the country are you... ?

Reading at the moment.

Don't have it deactivated! The current standards for deactivation completely ruin the gun.

Er, isn't that the aim - otherwise you could easily activate it again...

No the aim is only to deactivate so that reactivation would be prohibitively hard to do.

Without going into too much detail, the old standard for deactivation was (in my somewhat experienced opinion) tough enough. I just sold an old spec deac with fully working action. I left school and trained in mechanical engineering. To reactivate a gun so deactivated you'd need proper workshop facilities, and original (FAC only) parts to repair it. You might be able to bodge a repair without the parts, it wouldn't work anything like a real gun. If you have those proper workshop facilities you CAN BUILD A PERFECTLY GOOD WORKING FIREARM FROM SCRATCH. And of course, if any criminal wanted a firearm THAT badly there are countries outside the UK where they can be bought legally 'over the counter'.

The new rules really hack the gun about, and if you believe, like me, that a nice gun is a precision work of art instrument, that's criminal in my mind.

On the proofing thing, so am I right in thinking I would need to get it serviced/resotored and tested before I could take possesion of it? (assuming I had a license by then?) If so what might be a ball park figure?

the Reading firearms officer (got the pangbourne one coming to visit me next week as it happens) seems like a nice chap on the phone btw. AA, if you can get any photos of it i know some people locally who i think could help working out a value, details etc etc 🙂

Unless my father put all the money he had into the gun and more I doubt its worth anything.

My father once bought a shotgun for a tenner - it had Holland and Holland scribbled on it....

... so you never know.

Firstly, because the Home Office guidance - [SNIP] - officer in question entertains "genuine doubts".

I always understood that that BASC guidance had been tested in court, to the extreme embarrassment of the chief officer in question...

(I admit, this was a few years ago, so the HO guidance likely to have changed to reflect - but I dont think that the primary legisaltion has changed???)

On the proofing thing, so am I right in thinking I would need to get it serviced/resotored and tested before I could take possesion of it? (assuming I had a license by then?) If so what might be a ball park figure?

I've not come across proofing as an issue for modern hammerless breech loaders...

Had a few black powder guns in the family where it has been an issue - pitting due to the corrosive nature of black powder burning

TuckerUK - Member
To reactivate a gun so deactivated you'd need proper workshop facilities, and original (FAC only) parts to repair it.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to understand what components of a shotgun require a FAC??? 😯

anagallis_arvensis - Member
On the proofing thing, so am I right in thinking I would need to get it serviced/resotored and tested before I could take possesion of it? (assuming I had a license by then?) If so what might be a ball park figure?

No - proof is only to show it is safe to use nothing to do with ownership. Re-proofing is about £40-50. Send to proofhouse (Birmingham) they fire a whopping big charge through it, if gun is still in one piece then it passes proof.

I'm prob very near you, lots of experience, happy to help further in person or email / phone etc if you want. Can recommend a good local gunsmith who would take a look and tell you what you've got. Mail in profile.

Firstly, because the Home Office guidance (if correctly quoted) seems to describe a rebuttable presumption in favour of granting a shotgun certificate, not a rebuttable presumption against granting one.

I stand corrected, said the man in the orthopaedic shoes. I'm surprised at BASC making such a basic error...

Went to view the house we are thinking of buying with a builder today and **** me if it hasnt got a gun box bolted to the wall!