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Those of us in middle age would never have dared speak to women the way [s]the[/s] some 20-30 some-things do nowadays
Indeed, just secretly scoffed at a woman wanting to learn to drive eh, but polite in company. 😉 Which is worse? Also, FTFY.
People should be treated with respect. Respect (roundly) doesn't mean not appreciating their attractiveness, it just means not making it the ONLY positive thing you think of them. Simple, surely? At the end of the day no-one wants to be thought of *solely* as an object, but almost everyone wants to be physically attractive to someone - it's human nature, I think. Physical attractiveness is part of every day life, we can't avoid it or avoid being attracted to it or commenting on it. What we can avoid is commenting on it negatively or assuming the target of the comments isn't seen solely as a physical object. This is just common sense, surely? However someone mentioning someone's attractive and not subsequently pointing out all of their other positive traits doesn't mean they're objectifying and solely thinks of the person as a sex object. Attractiveness can be commented on without using phrases that would make the target shudder when they read it, I think this line is the line some members struggle with.
Cougar makes a good point
Twice in one lifetime? When you're hot, you're hot.
Here's another one perhaps. The number of male posters on here vastly outnumber the female ones. Why's this an issue? Anyone? Bueller?
With a 50:50 split, the guys making comments about celebrities being attractive is no big deal, the ladies are probably doing the same thing. When you've got a big group of blokes and only a couple of women though, it becomes intimidating. Bullying, in fact.
The same would be true if roles were reversed. I'd have no issues if someone started a thread about how hot, I don't know, Robert Pattinson is. I probably wouldn't even read it, but if I did and it was full of sexist comments like "ooh, he can suck on me anytime," I wouldn't be phased. On the other hand, if I was one of a handful of blokes trying to fit in, and that sort of braying pack mentality permeated every thread, I think I'd feel pretty threatened. (And any bloke who thinks a pack of women can't be intimidating has never been out with a pack of women.)
I'll be honest, a lot of this simply hadn't occurred to me until this thread gave me cause to stop and think. I hope I haven't been out of line previously (I don't [i]think[/i] I have but couldn't be sure) and I've no intention of changing who I am, but I'll try to be a little more careful about my choice of words in future. So maybe there is some good to come out of this.
I wouldn't be phased. On the other hand, if I was one of a handful of blokes trying to fit in, and that sort of braying pack mentality permeated every thread, I think I'd feel pretty threatened.
Fairly certain that out of the hundreds of threads I've read this month I've not seen any blatant sexism or such braying pack mentality? Maybe it's because I use my subconscious judgement and avoid that sort of thread, leaving it to those who see fit to show themselves up? Maybe it's because it doesn't exist. I'm not sure.
Mods on overtime alert
Anyhow, what tyres for laughing out your ass?
I'd honestly be seriously flattered if someone wanted to bang my backdoors in. I'm in two minds whether I'd let them. But it's the thought that counts. Problem is that nobody appears to want to regardless of gender so I feel a bit left out.
I quite like the pub analogies as i've been in loads and listened to so much rascist, sexist, mysoginist shit it's unbelievable. In all my time I've never seen anyone actively speak their dissapproval then flouce out...unless they were bigger than the spouter. Most people grasp their drinks tighter and "tut" a lot out of ear-reach. So the OP does at least have the privelege of raising her dissapproval for debate and discussion. Which may not be an option in an East End pub. What I am trying to say is that internet forums may appear to allow comment thatbwould not happen in public, but they also support challenges that would not hapen either. Hurrah! For singletrackworld and ll who sail in her.
DavidB - Member
Hurrah! For singletrackworld and ll who sail in her.
Her???
Why do you need to attribute a female gender to an internet forum? Are you some sort of [s]misgny[/s] [s]misogi[/s] woman-hater??
Most women I know give as good as they get when it comes to (so-called) sexist banter and don't get all uptight about it. They realise it's all just a laugh and dish it back big time.
My reluctance to participate on this forum these days has nothing to do with sexism, and everything to do with the number of people who simply act like aresholes. I can wholly sympathise with anyone who doesn't want to hang out on here anymore, it's become a much more aggressive and disrespectful place of late.
As I'm not really the 'oggling' type I must have avoided the sexist 'rugby-lad' threads... I must admit though I'd never given a phrase like 'bang her back doors in' any thought whatsoever, though I can see it being insulting to some people, and it's not like I'm going to use it myself..
I think what intimidates a lot of women (and men) is that stw threads can often turn into a bickering argument. it's the personal insults that I can't be bothered with. I don't come across it in real life so I don't want to be reading it at home. And that's fine, I normally just gloss over it. But the general atmosphere of certain threads certainly does put me off contributing to the rest. Generalising here, but I do believe women are more likely to take such stuff personally (I know I would)
edit: i.e. what kit just said 🙂
Kit - Hug?
My reluctance to participate on this forum these days has nothing to do with sexism, and everything to do with the number of people who simply act like aresholes. I can wholly sympathise with anyone who doesn't want to hang out on here anymore, it's become a much more aggressive and disrespectful place of late
Jesus, I must be missing all these threads with unpleasant people in them - I think STW is more PC and more tame than ever currently, certainly more so than before the great hack of whatever year it was.
Sorry to hear you're off Sue! 🙁 This place can be a little repetitive sometimes. I must be honest I can be as guilty as some at making comments about someone who is nice looking but there is no need to be judgy and smutty and that does seem to happen a lot around here. The arguing and judgypants attitude of some puts me off more than anything.
The arguing and judgypants attitude of some puts me off more than anything.
^^This^^
I've not been on much lately. Interesting that arseholes have become more prevalent since my internet-policing went down.
Time to crack some heads *cracks knuckles*.
I just feel it's sad that some women no longer feel comfortable here. I don't easily take offence, but I don't like the back door type comments, and I avoid the threads that are likely to have them in.
One of the reasons I like mountain biking is its inclusive nature. When I first started cycling, about 30 years ago, it was very rare to see women out cycling, it was an almost completely male activity. That is no longer the case, and seeing women out cycling on the road and mtb is the norm. Mountain biking can take a lot of the credit for that change, so it is a great shame that some women feel pushed out of such a high profile mtb forum. I do hope they come back, 'cos this place is better with them here.
Al, you've changed 😥 and might I say mellowed 😉
Don't really post on chat as such as usually same daft cyclical stuff on a 2 to 3 week rotation with the same suspects post the same dull crap.
As for the Sue and Emsz it's a shame, some people should really just belt up and maybe get out a bit more to get some experience of dealing with real people 'in the flesh that is' ( although personal hygiene issues may proclude this for some of the more trolly types) and maybe gain some empathy at the same time 🙄
Edit: blimey 😯
Offensive stuff is said in real life, offensive stuff is said on forums. Don't let idiots dictate the forums you inhabit. There is a real mixed group on STW (this is why its so good, its also sometimes a problem), ignore the bits you don't like and enjoy the bits you do like.
I guess we were due a "STW's really gone downhill of late" thread, it must be about 6 months since the last one.
.
I guess this post is a "STW's really gone downhill lately because everyone just constantly complains that STW's really gone downhill lately" post.
no elf on this thread yet?
Here I am! Thanks for your patience. 😀
to sum it up - Sue brought up users posting sexisrt comments (but didn't actually show any examples or anything in any sort of context). I asked her to explain what/why it upset her? Elf wades in being well.. Elf really... thing it, if Sue, Elf, Ernie and Emmz had only taken the time to actually read my posts properly last night they'd have realised that Druidhs quote above was the only point I was making.
no, let's have it right, GW. Just for the sake of truth and objectivity and that.
Sue raised the issue of nasty misogynist comments being made too frequently on here, then you waded in with what I can only truthfully describe as an attempt to justify such behaviour, claiming nonsense such as 'this is an almost exclusively male forum'*, or words to that effect. And that women like Sue, Emsz etc should just accept it as part of forum 'banter', and to not get so upset by it.
Let's have it right mate. At least have the courage to admit your real intent.
Then, you tried claiming such behaviour is somehow common and tolerated in most places, and that there wasn't really anything wrong with it. I disagreed with you, and explained that such behaviour has never been tolerated in any place [i]I've[/i] ever worked then posted a link to a government web-page basically stating that such behaviour in a work/public place is in fact [i]illegal[/i].
So please, some honesty, eh?
I find it interesting that you're now trying to pass it off as you being oh so reasonable and fair-minded. Don't make me laugh sunshine.
TBH your behaviour on that thread just struck me as you wanting to stir things up and appear to be a bit of a bad boy. You remind me of a lad at school who used to bully the girls a lot, and think he was being really funny and clever...
(*I know for a fact there are a good few more women on this forum that the blinkered may be aware of. I also know that a fair number of women are put off using the forum by the 'laddish' attitudes of some. This is just what real women have told me, btw. So, obviously there is a problem on this forum, despite what a few ignorant narrow-minded types may think)
To those wibbling on about 'oh you don't have to read it' etc; woon't it be easier if you went and formed your own forum where you could be sexist/racist/homophobic/whatever to your hearts' content? That way, you woon't have to moan about 'PC Gawn Mayd' or some other such nonsense that invariably gets spouted whenever this issue is raised.
Truth is, as Ton and others have pointed out, there are very few people indeed who would ever dare to behave in such an offensive manner in public, around people they din't know. No matter how tough they may make themselves out to be on an internet forum.
Sorry, I do robust humour but never that.
Sorry Hora, but I've got to pull you up on this one:
You're one of the worst exponents of posting crap such as 'go out for a bike ride'. In fact, you're the first person I remember making that comment on here. Less of the hypocrisy please.
The forum has definitely become a less nice/fun place since I first found it though.
Funny, cos my view is completely the opposite.
Which may not be an option in an East End pub.
I've challenged racism, sexism and homophobia in quite a few East End pubs (sadly). I hear what yer saying, but pleas don't make generalisations about others.
Who cares, right, it's only the Internet.
Well, actually, the more socially competent amongst us use this forum to network with others who we then may well meet up with in Real Life. So, it's not 'only' the internet.
Emsz and Sue; people like youse make this forum worth visiting. Please keep it that way.
So, it's not 'only' the internet.
I think that was rather his point Elf.
But other than that I agree with pretty much all of that. 😯
I'm now off to thrash myself with a birch.
HE HAS ARRIVED
better [s]late[/s] never than [s]never[/s] late
I love you too, Enfht. Even though I have absolutely no idea what on Earth you are wibbling on about, mind.
X
(And you Brakes)
Elf +1
I'd vote for Elf. He's someone I'd buy at least one if not two* pints for if we ever met!
* - a rare occurrance 😆
does this mean you wont post *that* picture of you in your helikopter pants for me to dribble over ever again then Elf 🙁
Perving aside, well said 🙂
Wow missed sooo much on this thread. Will have to save to pdf and read it on the throne later.
Sue_W and emsz sorry to hear that you're leaving.
+1 for Elf, thank you.
does this mean you wont post *that* picture of you in your helikopter pants for me to dribble over ever again then Elf
Why do I feel I've missed something?
I'm now off to thrash myself with a birch.
*awaits video by text*
And +1 Effinchaffing. Though, in fairness, on reflection, in all honesty, in spite of what I said earlier, I do actually think STW had improved of late. A&A died a justifiable death and some good PC Brigade Thought Policing had brought the neanderthals into the 21st century. However, this was a once in not-so-very-often post that spiralled a bit - a bit of navel gazing self-reflection is not so bad every so often for the hive. It allows the backward to get themselves up to speed with the current moral zeitgeist of the enlightened amongst us.
well put Fred lad.............and i agree wholeheartedly. 😀
I think that was rather his point Elf.
Indeed.
But, yes, well said.
I've just cracked an ass rib
I'm reporting you to the RSPCA.
Elf - well done for challenging all of the things i thought of in East End pubs. Can we book you for home matches in the County Ground hotel, Swindon. It would make for some great light relief/entertainment watching you furiously running round challenging very large skinhead wurzels.
Can you afford me though?
Between us we will make millions on youtube. I will see you right.
May I suggest a compromise,
Mods ban anyone using the backdoor phrase
Fragile PC twazzocks get an icon against their names, much like stw premier members.
Fragile PC twazzocks get an icon against their names, much like stw premier members.
Only if we can have another icon for misogynists.
Only rode the first page but to be honest it sadly not surprises me at all.
Same goes with xenophobia and homophobia on here. Comment such as 'it's only the internet' or how do you cope in real life are just a lame attempt to justify to such behaviour. No it is not only the internet. More than most I am pissed off with xenophobic comments about my brith-place, specially when you're not expectign them. But apparently it's ok because it's only the internet, well it's not "JUST" the internet, when you (yes you caveman plonker) upset someone you upset someone in real. The same way 'it's just the internet' could easily be transposed to it's just books or it's just the radio or it's just a poster in the street. Same goes for women and sexism on here. As pointed by a few on the first page, this is no public domain it's private place and if you do not abide by the rules well you're off. If you don't like the rules, well go away and set your own place with your own rules. I am very sorry for you girls/women/ladies of the underlying misogyny and moreover the usual acceptance of it. Sorry to hear you're leaving because of this, but I can wholly understand as I have been here and done that (some people on here may remember my very first ID on the old forum) I hope you'll be back sometimes as otherwise it would simply mean they have won...
TTFN
I can't believe it's made it to 8 pages....seriously, some folk take this way to seriously
I'd suggest that if you're easily offended, a place mainly dominated by men probably isn't the best place to frequent. Whilst I can't and won't tolerate racism or homophobia, or for that matter people behaving in a sexist way, there are going to be points where someone makes a comment that they think is acceptable which clearly isn't. There are a lot of people on here, from different backgrounds with different upbringings. Backgrounds where certain things are tolerated. I'm not saying it's right, but it's a fact of life that it's how it is. Fair play on you for making a point, calling said perp up on it or choosing not to come on here anymore. But having a post just to state this to me is just looking for attention. As for all those jumping to your defense, I find it cringeworthy at best.
The problem with discrimination towards women is that it's a very blurred line between complimenting and offending. To me, if someone says something involving back doors, it's a back handed compliment. Along the lines of 'you're
hot, I'd like to hop on the good foot and do the bad thing with you...'. It's not meant in a 'I'd like to analy rape you'context, at least I'd bloody well hope not. The whole thing isn't helped by images of scantilly clad people all over the media, to impressionable kids it's ok to drool over the opposite sex, make comments and such. See a copy of any lads mag for a demonstration of this. It's not a justification btw, just a possible explanation.
Joking aside it's sad that you feel threatened/uncomfortable about posting on here but remember its only a forum. You not being on here is your choice and to me personally it has no effect. However, I wouldn't want someone sat at home feeling shit about something like this, so I for one will moderate my comments.
As to all the 'big hitters', you seriously need to have a word with yourselves....
I don't see a problem with discrete perving ie appreciation done with respect and knowledge that Kids are reading (see my Jessica Ennis post), but there's definitely some on here who take it way too far, thinking they're funny (I expect they are funny to similar minded) ie go out for a bike ride, I would do her, type stuff.
If you don't think it's appropriate, [u]REPORT IT[/u], I do, the Mods are your friend on this issue Sue and emsz (or whoever). Flouncing off isn't the way to go about it, they win.
😆 Well said Fluffykittens!Fragile PC twazzocks get an icon against their names, much like stw premier members.Only if we can have another icon for misogynists.
I find it cringeworthy at best.
At the very zenith of human existence (is that better than best), I find most of your post worse than cringeworthy. Just saying like...
it's a very blurred line between complimenting and offending.
And this, sir, is straight from the big book of bollocks.
I hate these I'm leaving look at me threads...
🙄
I'd suggest that if you're easily offended, a place mainly dominated by men probably isn't the best place to frequent.
And why shouldn't it be?
That's pathetic. Same as saying 'if you're brown and work in an otherwise all-white environment you should expect racist comments and either deal with it or leave'.
Cobblers.
People whose behaviour offends others need to moderate their behaviour. That's what has to be accepted here. If people can't, then they're the ones who should leave.
As a non-neanderthal-knuckle-dragger, I don't like seeing nasty behaviour on here. I don't want to see it, and according to the forum rules, I shoon't have to.
So, it's down to those whose behaviour offends, to make the change. Not others.
And if you don't like it, you can leave.
I hate these I'm leaving look at me threads...
This is far from that. This is about someone wanting a better environment for everyone.