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whoever eventually buys the house will buy it.
This is an excellent point. You could even put a "for sale" sign up on it now so prospective buyers of his place see it is possible!
Did the deeds you hold for the house include the yellow land within the demise or was it just that it was included in the fenced extent on the OS map?
If it was included in the deeds then, unless there was a mistake back in the 60s and it was also included in your neighbours deeds then he must have made an application for adverse possession and was only likely granted a possessory title (or good leasehold if his house is also leasehold) these are easier to dispute than absolute titles.
1st thing I would do is contact the Land Registry and dispute the registration, if he currently holds any title over the land then if you can't agree a price to sell he could always rely on his limited title and sell anyway, you'd then be facing a legal battle with a new owner who might be more motivated to litigate.
I'm not 100% sure how you would be able to sell land you currently have no title to either, I'd guess that he would have to inform LR there was a mistake in his registration, they would check your deeds and rectify the titles to give you the land back, then you would have to transfer it to him.
Again, if your deeds show ownership of the yellow land then get that corrected first then discuss selling it back.
Is this another version of the allotment/ Israeli:Palestine conflict thread?
Tell him the starting point is re-instating the 'land grab' and all at his cost - inc legal and all other fees on your side.
Once that is done, to your satisfaction, you're prepared to negotiate the piece of land he wants but make clear that's no guarantee of reaching a deal.
As others ^^^ have said, local estate agent - price as is and price assuming land transfer which provides parking potential.
Your start point is 50% of the differential.
Definitely plant shrubs or trees in the space.
Definitely plant shrubs or trees in the space.
I think Fossy has some stuff you could put there
I assume that his proposed new flat parking area has an engineered design for the retaining wall and that he's served Party Wall Notice for the works?
Is the yellow bit any use to you other than to screw money from next door? Is it a result of anything other than a botch on the original division of the land with the houses? Just sell it him for a token amount and move on, "don't be a dick" works both ways.
Thanks for the input everyone.
I'll take some pictures tonight.
The yellow blob has been part of the garden since day one. The original deeds etc show the outline including the yellow bit and also extending into the close, to the halfway point. My Dad had to pay for half the close to be tarmac. the rest paid for the sliver that extended out from their gardens.
I've got pictures of me aged about 4 standing on that plot with the fence visible, wearing a lovely 70's jumper and holding my prized Lone Ranger figure 🙂
The freehold piece cost my Dad a fortune, back in the day. £2k including the solicitors fees. The whole house only cost £3.5k. I did a brief check regarding who owns the road for repair etc and it's not me. I explain it as, I own the land under the road.
The way I originally found out is that he told another neighbour that he'd found out the land wasn't registered and had put a claim in for the yellow blob.
FYI I've no problem with him as a neighbour, never have.
I'm a bit rusty on this but Stokes v Cambridge court case set a rule of thumb of a ransom strip being 1/3 of the uplift in value of the asset after removing it. How much would an off-street drive add to the value of the neighbour's house? £20/30k? A third of that is a good starting point.
Have I understood correctly:
The pink shaded bit is freehold.
The white bit that is also in the red border is leasehold.
The yellow bit he really wants to buy, and you don't mind getting rid of.
To my mind, the cost of the yellow bit would coincidentally be the same as the cost of buying the freehold for the bit of land you do need but don't currently own + the legal fees for both transactions!
Totally confused [nothing new there] as to how he managed to register a piece of land that is in 'your' deeds - only thing I can think of is that it was a mistake when the registry office originally put the land into its system. Either way I would think he has zero claim over it (he knows this which is why he's offering to buy it).
Just sell it him for a token amount and move on, “don’t be a dick” works both ways.
NOT this. It's land - they're not making it any more and it will add big value to your neighbours house.
Hi
The below is from an email message with the solicitor from when I was buying my Sister out of her half:
As you are no doubt aware part of the property is registered and part is unregistered. Having checked the unregistered deeds there appears to be a conflict on the area of land remaining unregistered and that part that has been registered. The title needs to be rectified before we can proceed.
It appears from what we can see that the title was part freehold and part leasehold but when the title was initially sent to the Land Registry in 1968 only the freehold papers were submitted to them which covers a much smaller area of land than is actually owned.
To enable us to rectify the title, we firstly need to prepare a full list of the un-registered documents we hold for the Leasehold title and submit that to the Land Registry for their consideration and request them to register the leasehold title documents. We also need to submit to the Land Registry the Grant of Probate to amend the legal owner of the property into your name.
Freehold bit 
Leasehold used to extend by the same amount into the close.
This photo explains it. He wants to continue the wall down through "my" garden. Make the driveway level.
So he was a cheeky bastard in the first place and now wants to a) deprive you of a not-insignificant section of your garden and b) add off-street parking to his property?
£10k + costs plus 50% of the difference between current asking price and what he'll sell it for with off-street parking.
I would find out what % of the total land+ house he's selling the land makes up & charge the % of whatever he wants to sell it for.
If that's not enough, I'd come up with another way using the power of maths + inconvenience to you
So how can he not get some off street parking just by removing that wall and reworking the stairs etc?
This "I’d let him make the offer, he needs to buy it more than you need to sell it."
Then rule 1 applies. £5k plus paying your legal fees feels reasonable, any more than that is bonus. Then just carry on doing the nice stuff (new bike, holiday, C&H etc,). This sort of thing can drain the life out.
Seeing that photo, I revise my answer further up. I'd tell him to F right off.
This “I’d let him make the offer, he needs to buy it more than you need to sell it.”
Then rule 1 applies. £5k plus paying your legal fees feels reasonable, any more than that is bonus. Then just carry on doing the nice stuff (new bike, holiday, C&H etc,). This sort of thing can drain the life out.
This is my thoughts too.
It's a bloody silly bit of garden that I'd find more of an inconvenience than a positive that when all said and done should probably have been a broad bit of pavement in the first place with your garden squared off at the back.
More than £5K plus all costs (physical and legal) would seem like profiteering imo and I'm not that guy.
But.......would not be fancying the job of making that into off road parking and not undermining my own house.
TLDR but if neighbour (who sounds like a bit of a douche) wants that bit of land, I'd be asking how much the estate agents are saying his house is worth with and without a usable driveway. The difference is what it'll cost him. And I'd conduct this conversation whilst sitting on a sun lounger on that piece of grass sipping a pina colada.
Jesus.... that would be a steep drive!!
Sharkbait, that's why he wants to flatten it.
I believe the plan is to turn that drive into a garage.
I've no problem with his plan. Just wanted to know how much to ask?
Just wanted to know how much to ask?
5-10% of the value of his house Dickhead tax and off street parking is probably worth that much extra on his property
Garages in Edinburgh sell for £20 000 - £30 000 just for a garage
Looking at that picture - he doesn't need your land to make his driveway, he could move his steps and the wee strip of dirt beside them?
I think he is chancing his arm, hoping that you will not be bothered enough to research properly.
Get a quote for the work to reconstitute the steps and wall holding them up on his land one day when he is out. Add £5k "tax" - that is your number.
I believe the plan is to turn that drive into a garage.
Then it will be a fairly epic retaining wall!
Jesus…. that would be a steep drive!!
http://www.universaldesignstyle.com/bad-design-style-case-54/
Looking at that picture – he doesn’t need your land to make his driveway, he could move his steps and the wee strip of dirt beside them?
That was my 1st thought
Which is the bit he pinched from your garden?
I'd still get him to give you the land back first before entering any negotiations.
Unless you are happy with 5k in a brown envelope to keep your mouth shut.
5k isn't that much in the scheme of things and once the land is gone you aren't ever getting it back. He has to make you an offer and you have to find it interesting. It isn't your job to solve his problems cheaply
Start a dispute devaluing his house, buy said house at a knockdown price. End said dispute. Sell yourself your own garden at a favourable rate build a drive or garage sell house. High fives all round.
Let him make an offer.
But I don’t ge this:
Id be thinking 10% of the value of the house because an off road parking spot surely puts that on the value.
Surely half of what it’ll add to his house? And that might not be as much an up lift in value as you think.
After all why should you get the full profit from what he’s doing? I’m f you make the all the increase then he has no motivation to do it.
If it doesn’t sell the land has little value to you - how much less would you expect your house to be worth if the garden were that much smaller? To someone who knew no better?
Give it to him ?. Aint worth the stress.
Be happy.
🙂
He's going to need to do some major civils to prevent his new garage and most of the rest of his house ending up in your garden if he digs that lot out
Eh?
So he is planning to park his car on your corner of garden and not use his steep drive?
But it's surrounded by pavement?! He would need council permission to cross the pavement on the whole of the two outward sides, and would end up parking on the pavement?!
I assume the roads are now adopted by council highways.
Surely he is never going to dig the steep drive out, underpin the house, build a retaining wall and then build a pokey garage just to sell the house! That would cost a fortune and be a eyesore for you.
Looking at the pic I think losing that corner of your garden would make it feel much smaller when stood in it. That could make £10k impact on your house value.
I would ask him to rectify his mistake nicely and tell him I am are not interested in losing garden. It's not worth what he would need to pay me, I can't imagine he will part with £20k for it.
After all why should you get the full profit from what he’s doing? I’m f you make the all the increase then he has no motivation to do it.
Dickhead tax after his behaviour in trying to steal the bit of land. Its a sellers market
Edit - also its something he wants and something the land owner does not need to do. Its going to add significant value to the house and to the current owners detriment.
Nothing useful to add to the actual thread, but wanted to say it only took me about 60 seconds to find your house on Google maps OP, maybe trim that photo down or take the label off 👍
I believe the plan is to turn that drive into a garage.
I’ve no problem with his plan. Just wanted to know how much to ask?
Am I interpreting correctly? he wants to buy the yellow bit of land to get access to build on land that you own half of(but is somehow registered to him?) then sell the house?
Am I interpreting correctly?
Nope - he wants to build a garage on his own land and the OP owns the annoying lump of land that juts out in front of it blocking simple access.
and that annoying lump of land is the bit he tried to steal
and that annoying lump of land is the bit he tried to steal
Or (playing devil's advocate) the OP's father might have annexed it when they moved in 50 years ago when the developer naused up the landscaping, land parcelling up and registering.
the OP’s father might have annexed it when they moved in 50 years ago
After fencing it off and using it for 50 years, even if the land was registered to someone else, I think the odds would be in the OP's favour.
Anyhow, it looks like it's relatively easy for the neighbour to access his dry ski slope, I suppose he needs the land to put in the engine for the drag lift.
Seriously, bloke just needs to sell as is, he'll spend more digging out, underpinning and retaining than he'd ever get back on his resale value.
All this fuss over a tiny strip of land - how about this!... 😬😱
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-59069662
[i]Luton man left shocked as his house is ‘stolen’[/i]
Well at least with the payout from the solicitors screw up he should be able to escape Luton
What I found odd was the line
"Once the house was sold to the new owner for £131,000 by the person impersonating Mr Hall, they legally owned it."
Surely as the imposter didn't legally own the house, he couldn't pass ownership?
Me too - that detail seemed crazy.
Sounds like it was carefully chosen - an empty house up together enough to be easy to sell with the owner far enough away that you could break in and change to locks for long enough so viewings and key exchange could take place without being rumbled.