[Closed] Scum Villages

It's sad that you seem to percieve this as a good thing, instead of trying to integrate the less fortunate into society a little more.

Where do you draw the line ? Essex chavs playing loud music but coming from affluent families ? How about people brought up on a council estate? irrelevent of their education/abilities ?

They've already done it. Its called Nottingham

years ago they used to send 'undesirables'to other parts of the world, Australia took very many i believe

Create social problems, then blame the poor for them, nice......

The Reich lives one.

Deary me.

We sought of do this already.

Councils evict problem families from their homes and they move into grotty b&b's in nasty neighbourhoods and stay there until they're rehoused.

That ultra right wing neo Nazi dutch fella's idea is a little naive. All he's doing if such an idea would be successful is social cleansing. But by doing this you're mearly relocating the problem to fester and grow into an even bigger problem that would spread like a social cancer.

Seems like a great idea.
I've seen many a decent law abiding victim move from their house to escape these types of people.
Why not move the problem away not the victim

So you don't see the difference between poor/disadvantaged families and anti social behaviour?

So you get put in a scum village, how, if you change are you supposed to better yourself and get out? no ones going to employ you so crime is the only way for you to survive

Might as well just kill em all really

Send council junkies to dedicated islands. Stornaway is big enough to fill them up. +Scottish laws free to roam will make them fit exploring and enjoying nature, and they can't nick anything from good folk being separated from mainland, result. Win Win.

slowmart - Member
So you don't see the difference between poor/disadvantaged families and anti social behaviour?

I do... Yep....

However, i worry, some people like yourself don't.

What about coming home in an evening pissed and singing at the top of your voice ? That's anti-social, however i bet most of us did it when younger and drunk...

Didnt they do this in Scotland a while back. Moved scum neighbors into a block of flats to annoy each other and give everyone else a break. Also the police knew where to go straight away when any crap happened.

Do people actually read links before commenting?

Weeksy. Don't worry I do.

So how do you protect decent people from anti social behaviour.

years ago they used to send 'undesirables'to other parts of the world, Australia took very many i believe

I never understood that, y'know. We've got a large, sunny island over there and a small, damp one over here. We want rid of our undesireables, so we [i]stay here and ship them off.[/i] *facepalm*

slowmart - Member

Weeksy. Don't worry I do.

So how do you protect decent people from anti social behaviour.

Give everyone the same upbringing and chances in life?....

So how do you protect decent people from anti social behaviour.

democratically..?

[img] [/img]

Whats that chunky? two parents who lovingly dote on their children. Who all experience good health and live happily ever after?

We all have choices and know right from wrong.

Give everyone the same upbringing and chances in life?....

How do you give everyone the same upbringing?

oh dear

slowmart - Member
Weeksy. Don't worry I do.

So how do you protect decent people from anti social behaviour.

It's called a Police force and a law system that enforces it. Sadly the UK's doesn't work very well at times i admit, however the law and society in general is in place to ensure this sort of thing shouldn't and doesn't happen....

I am pretty convicned it happens a LOT less now than it would when one section of society has no jobs, money, food etc... and just go to the rich areas to steal stuff 🙂

The only realistic 2 ways to improve the situation are.
1. Improve Policing, this would require more officers and great budget, so is unlikley.
2. Improve education, this would require better schools and vast budgets, so is unlikely...

We as a society are to blame for our apathy and acceptance of behaviour by 'nannying' our young for several generations now.

These 'scum' villages will have a constant presence of social workers (and police). Might this be a way of breaking the cycle of poor parenting and crime that some (very very few) families are caught in? It didn't read to me like he are being sent there to rot, rather to stop the causing trouble for others and to receive the dedicated help they need...

We all have choices and know right from wrong.

What about riding bikes on footpaths, landowners would deem that anti-social, if a neighbour planted a leylandii hedge I would classify that as anti-social, cat ownership is anti-social. Where do all these things fit into your perfect black and white world of right and wrong?

Blackpool and most seaside resorts are already scum towns full of DSS and old folk. Just go to Blackpool and go one street back from the EU funded sea front and you'll see what I mean.

oh dear

oh dear what?

How do you give everyone the same upbringing?

I'm pretty certain that most people don't have the same upbringing, siblings probably but most people, no

Any dangers of reading the article?

It's aimed at repeat offenders who fall short of criminality.

given the chips on shoulders of several posters it's the schools in the socially deprived areas where funding is rightly focused. That alone is not a solution but it does help. Try being a teacher and the feedback is that the parents are the problem.Not the children.

I'd always assumed Ordsall was the result of this policy being implemented a few decades ago.

Might as well just kill em all really

xcgb - If you actually stand for election on that ticket, you'll have you're snout in the Westminster trough in a heartbeat. 😆

ChunkyMTB - Member
oh dear

I can't believe the Dutch would do that without some method behind it, smacks of tabloid journalism un researched to me..

While the article has been written in a rather emotional tone, there is a certain merit to it.

There's a definite social wrong when "trouble" families refuse to get work, cause trouble in their area and impact on the quality of life of those around them, particularly if they are in social housing and so funded by the contributions of those around them. It's definitely not right that they should be subsidised when by the very fact of their misbehaviour, they are fit & able to work.

The "camps" system is probably (and I say probably) a step too quick in the process - there should probably be a primary step of benefits being stopped first, and then if the perpetrators do not improve and occupy themselves more positively within a 3 month timeframe, then the camps are the next natural step.

The above is likely to go against much of STW's pretty left leaning views, but on the other hand, there has to be a case for not rewarding bad behaviour with continuing subsidy.

there should probably be a primary step of benefits being stopped first,

Yeah, stopping the income stream for those on the edge of criminality, that's a plan of considerable genius.

Anyone been to Rhyll lately?

To be honest, I think Scum Villages already exist in the UK. They get selected gradually by people moving out of certain villages in preference for other ones. Those left behind are simply the ones that can't afford to move. You'd see a Copper maybe once every two years where my Folks live, go to a village 4 miles away and there out every weekend with a continuous presence during 'drinking hours'

And is there that much difference between what the Dutch are doing and a Estate with a high density of social housing?

Give everyone the same upbringing and chances in life?....

+1. Although it should be similar upbringing. But here on STW a lot of people who have commented want two things:

1: Out of sight, out of mind
2: Don't want to pay for it.

So, the conclusion is that those undesirables can go somewhere else to rot.

The above is likely to go against much of STW's pretty left leaning views

😆

Have you been reading this thread?

And is there that much difference between what the Dutch are doing and a Estate with a high density of social housing?

Yes. The Dutch villages have a constant social worker presence to help support these families in changing their lifestyles. A sink estate doesn't.

Send council junkies to dedicated islands. Stornaway is big enough to fill them up

You'll need a big wall to keep 'em out of Harris though. It's nice there!

So "the Reich" and/or an "ultra right wing, neo Nazi Dutch fella" live on in the form of:

Van der Laan, Amsterdam's _ a _ _ ur mayor?

The world gets stranger!

A sink estate doesn't.

So, you are saying we are already doing something worse?

killwillforchips - Member
That ultra right wing neo Nazi dutch fella's idea is a little naive. All he's doing if such an idea would be successful is social cleansing. But by doing this you're mearly relocating the problem to fester and grow into an even bigger problem that would spread like a social cancer.

Before we get into left/right name calling, can I just put it out there that this is being put into place by the Mayor who is in their Labour party.

Eberhard van der Laan, Amsterdam's Labour mayor...

The plan echoes a proposal from Geert Wilders, the leader of a populist Dutch Right-wing party

I agree with your point though.

A sink estate doesn't.

So, you are saying we are already doing something worse?

Have you been to Ordsall? The place where that young Indian tourist was recently shot in the face 'for a laugh'?

Not only do we have no social workers, they are effectively police no-go areas. The police say this isn't the case. Would you walk through there after dark? Not for all the Carbon fibre in CRC!

Not for the Carbon Fibre in CRC no.

I might put my running shoes on for a custom Feather Bicycles creation though

On the face of it I like it. Stick all the scummy people in scum town and leave everywhere else nice. I guess the main problem is that the scum people have kids. And in scum town all their role-models and peers will be scum. No incentive to get a job, as it's not going to be part of the scum town ethos and the scum will drag you back down if you aspire to better yourself.
So either sterilise them all, or keep in the greater society where at least there's a slim chance they might find a better life.

Binners, yep I know what your saying.

Just trying to highlight that these areas already exist. I'd imagine that every town and city already has areas that are segregated along divisions of various types.

This Dutch idea, although troubling in may respects. Doesn't seem any worse. However, I'm struggling to believe that they would be so well policed etc after a decade or so of existence.

So either sterilise them all

Drone flypasts on the island we stick 'em on. Sorted. 😉

An interesting about-face from the current Dutch policy which is hinted at in the quote

"The aim is not to reward people who behave badly with a new five-room home with a south-facing garden. This is supposed to be a deterrent,"

At the moment problem families are moved into affluent areas and given a nice house in the sweet hope that doing so will raise them up. It seems not to work.

They've already done it. Its called Nottingham

Don't start on shottingham. I lived outside it for a few years with no problems. Not the nicest place but I'd rather be there than some of englands other unmentionables.

We are indeed already there. Its just been done progressively over the years, without it ever being spoken about publicly. The cap on housing benefits coming in to force, is basically going to achieve precisely this in London. Social cleansing, in effect. There are going to be thousands of families shipped out of central London to sink estates where they won't be bothering the aspirational middle clases.

Out of sight, out of mind

At least the Dutch have the balls to say what they're doing. As opposed to Ian Duncan Smith, dressing it up

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/nov/04/london-boroughs-housing-families-outside-capital ]the same policy, in all but name[/url]

However, I'm struggling to believe that they would be so well policed etc after a decade or so of existence.

That's the first thing that I thought too. Christ only knows what effect the central London exodus is going to have on some already impoverished areas that will be the new dumping grounds. But I wouldn't fancy living there!!!