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Like many places in the world scotland has problems with its population makeup. At the moment you get a minor bit at soccer matches.
Wondering if it could ever boil over into a northern ireland situation? and result in more widespread catholic/protestant violence. I know most would not want it to happen as it never benefits that many but it never takes many to cause a problem.
I have been up here for about 7 weeks and am amazed about the football tribalism which seems to be rooted in religious differences.
While normally supporting Celtic when it comes to the Old Firm, I do think Lennon has done nothing to calm things down over the past few months. Moreover, he's stirred things up quite a bit. Having said all that, I don't live there so don't really know what it's like day to day.
The sooner both clubs go bankrupt the better
DD - blaming the victim?
DD - blaming the victim?
I'm not. Tbh, Scottish sectarianism bores the shit out of me. A bunch of people who left a country to escape hardship and conflict just insist on carrying it on in their new homeland.
I had sympathy for Lennon before but he has inflamed the situation this week with his pre-match comments. He needs some tutoring on his mind games playing. It's no-one's fault and everyone's fault at the same time.
Wondering if it could ever boil over into a northern ireland situation?
If it was going to happen it would have happened in the 70s/80s when there was much more dicrimination. It certainly used to be the case that in some companies your job prospects were limited if you were Catholic. The somewhat loaded question "where did you go to school" was frequently aksed at interviews. The reverse may also have been true, but I've no knowledge of this. As far as I'm aware it no longer happens.
It isn't a problem all over Scotland. It is generally only an issue in the west, in and around Glasgow (I was brought up in Lanarkshire).
The sooner both clubs go bankrupt the better
Quite right, although I prefer the Bard's line
"A plague on both your houses"
when talking about the old firm.
have no time for the Old Firm nonsense either but I do feel Neil Lennon is getting it a bit tight at the moment!
Its a problem but will only ever be a minor one.
Lennon's an arse, but no one deserves the level of abuse he's been subjected to.
so the general consensus here is 2 sides of the coin... take the blinkers off ffs.
Not likely, if [i]they[/i] are that way inclined then its only a short hop on the seacat/easy jet to NI.Wondering if it could ever boil over into a northern ireland situation?
Must wondering, usually such problems are kept in check until something happens. Tito's death in yugoslavia, or scottish devolution?
I would hope people are grown up enough not to blame others but that is not the human way.
No problems occurred in Yugoslavia after Tito's death. The Federal Republic of Yugoslavia continued to function normally despite all the predictions that it wouldn't, through rotating presidencies. It was only more than 10 years after Tito's death, with the encouragement and interference of EU countries, specially Germany, that the Yugoslavia Federation started to break up. Yugoslavia was always a tinderbox ready to ignite, those who helped and encouraged that to happen, are responsible - not Tito for dying.
Take two tribal groups. Allow them free reign to be as tribal as they like in one of the most pathetically tribal sports. Let this go on for years without really doing anything about it.
What do you expect?
Marching season will be fun this year 🙁
I have been up here for about 7 weeks and am amazed about the football tribalism which seems to be rooted in religious differences.
When you've been here a bit longer it'll become apparent that its actually religious differences rooted in football tribalism. People don't consider themselves catholic or protestant and therefore a celtic or rangers supporter, they consider themselves a celtic or rangers supporter and therefore catholic or protestant. You won't see any of the fans who fill the streets with sectarian songs on a saturday in church on a sunday
Old firm teams aren't blighted by sectarianistm, the clubs are effectively marketed and promoted through sectarianism and the sense it give their fans that they are involved in something more important and life consuming, more political and cultural than watching "22 millionaires ruining a lawn".
CFH - actually there has been serious and significant efforts to reduce sectarianism at football matches.
http://www.kickoutbigotry.org/index.php
CFH - actually there has been serious and significant efforts to reduce sectarianism at football matches.
Lip service if you ask me.
BoardinBob - Member
Marching season will be fun this year
Wtf is all that about? Never understood that carry on!
A serious and significant effort would be for the two clubs to shut the doors and walk away.
Wtf is all that about? Never understood that carry on!
It's about a bunch of pissheads getting together to get drunk and annoy as many people as possible by disrupting their day unecessarily with their out of tune "music" because "it's their right" and coz it's "traditional".
Remove the old firm you still have hibs and aren't hearts also sectarian in origin?
No problems occurred in Yugoslavia after Tito's death.
I was in Yugoslavia in May 1980 shortly after his death. I was actually in a part of the country that is now Croatia and there was a real feeling of loss around the place. Flags were at half mast , pictures of Tito with a black ribbon in the corner were displayed in shop windows. Tito was Croatian but still, the creation of Yugoslavia after WWI was generally seen as a greater Serbia by Croats and Slovenes and communism was arguably the only time that the state showed any kind of pan ethnic solidarity.
On Scottish sectarianism - IMO its far less prevalent that when I was a kid in the 70s and its not accepted in the same way.
Its something that is dying away
It has nothing to do with religion or football, just a bunch of drunken neds looking to get wasted and cause trouble.
Old firm matches were a good reason to avoid the city centre when I was still living up there. Empty beer cans, drunken muppets and pshing in any doorway that was available. No thanks.
I have no interest in sectarianism.
I'm safe in the knowledge that as a Catholic I have God on my side and am going to heaven.
>Wondering if it could ever boil over into a northern ireland situation? and result in more widespread catholic/protestant violence.
No - isolated nut job imo. Generally speaking this is nothing compared to what went on in Glasgow in the 60's & 70's.
Lennon doesn't deserve the abuse but like others before him he'll invariably move, or be moved, and it will be all change again...
maccruiskeen - one of the best synopsis of the problem I've read; although I don't think either church objects to its "inflated numbers" because it gives those institutions more power.
Wtf is all that about? Never understood that carry on!
One interpretation might be that when the football stops for the summer season they need an alternative outlet for their bigotry/aggression! If you saw most of the people this lot are married to you'd understand why its more appealing to be walking up and down the road listening to crap music amongst other overweight aggressive sweaty men rather than be at home!
About as serious and significant as the policing / security at last night's match that allowed someone to cross a barrier and walk 50 yards towards the high highest risk and highest profile person in the stadium unhindered!TJ - serious and significant efforts
Perhaps you think there is enough effort because:
Whilst I can't ever see it evolving into NI in the 80s (there is no "territory" to fight for to start with) - this is far from a minor problem. I'd suggest it is in Scotland's top 5 problems, and is showing no signs of budging - despite society generally becoming more tolerant.Its a problem but will only ever be a minor one.
The traditional aspect is quite amusing too, the first orange order march in Glasgow was in the 1820's, it lasted for 3 years, before it was banned for the next 50 years. The Orange Order like Rangers are a reaction to the irish influx to Glasgow in the 18/1900's that's where the problem lies, there's a section of scottish society that just wont accept us..To view it as any else is a lie.It's about a bunch of pissheads getting together to get drunk and annoy as many people as possible by disrupting their day unecessarily with their out of tune "music" because "it's their right" and coz it's "traditional".
Don't get me wrong we(celtic fans) have our issues of that there is no doubt. But the main aggression comes from Rangers triumphiant attitudes and the belief we don't belong. FFS just look at the amount of celtic fans murdered in recent years. look at the uefa categerisation of the rangers as opposed to celtic, look everywhere they go, ffs look at what they did to manchester, look at how we were welcomed and commended in seville with similar numbers..It's very easy to spot the differences if you look beyond the media line of 2 sides of a coin.
In the end up though, it's not half as bad as it once was, it gets reported alot more, the OO is dying on it's arse and with that Rangers are slowly getting better, the last remnants of them are getting a bit of a siege mentality about them though as they know the writing is on the wall. Wounded animal and all that caper.
Take two tribal groups. Allow them free reign to be as tribal as they like in one of the most pathetically tribal sports. Let this go on for years without really doing anything about it.What do you expect?
Lib dem coalition government?
Mrmo I think you'll find you're way off the mark with your remarks about Hibs and Hearts
😆 @ Junkyard!
Just to highlight that there are idiots on both sides of the divide
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seosamh77 - Member
As a DUFC fan,I am interested in you opinion on how singing republican songs in support of another country,and disturbing the minutes silence wherever you go(including Ibrox this year,cough,cough)does anything to suggest that you WANT to belong,as you put it.I remember the Celtic fans regailing us with the refrain of "Argentina" in the early 80's...I don't think they were referring to the quality of the football on offer.Likewise the fields of athenry is a little bit more than a quaint little folk ballad,is it not?
Outsiders like myself who experience the songs both sides of the old firm sing don't really think either of you should be complaining about the other."Your problems" as you call them before explaining exactly what Rangers problems are,are much more real than a media construct designed by a pro Rangers media bias.I think both your team and Rangers fuel each other.Don't get me wrong,if the respective fans of each team did not have each other to hate,it would be something else,scheme,gang etc,so the problem is not going away,although it has lessened (shipyards all closed)
Junkyard 🙂
@otr, I am assuming Hibernian get their name from a catholic root, ie order of hibernian, they play in green and white again suggesting an irish origin.
I have never heard of problems, but I an not assuming that is the case,
Don't get me wrong we(celtic fans) have our issues of that there is no doubt. But the main aggression comes from Rangers triumphiant attitudes and the belief we don't belong. FFS just look at the amount of celtic fans murdered in recent years. look at the uefa categerisation of the rangers as opposed to celtic, look everywhere they go, ffs look at what they did to manchester, look at how we were welcomed and commended in seville with similar numbers..It's very easy to spot the differences if you look beyond the media line of 2 sides of a coin.
I say again, a plague on both your houses. Stop being such an apologist for bigotry, it's one of the reasons why I hate going back to my parents and I'm glad that I no longer live in that part of Scotland.
Hearts/Hibs do have a sectarian element although it is nowhere near as prevelant as Celtic/Rangers.
I don't understand it...to me it's like watching Vin Diesel and Telly Savalas fighting over a comb.
Its nothing to do with sectarianism. Its to do with being morons. Pure and simple
Remember Rangers little Jaunt down to Manchester a couple of seasons ago by any chance? I do. I had the pleasure to witness it first hand. What an exemplary display of behavior that was from our northern guests. No sectarian problem there, was there? No. Just, quite frankly, behaving like animals. literally.
Streets awash with piss and vomit. And the bodies of those too pissed to actually stand up. Running street battles with the police. The whole place was trashed.
Can you imagine the supporters of any other team other than those resident in Glasgow behaving like that?
They're animals. Its that simple
It's attitudes like that that have allowed it to continue for over 100 years. bury your head in the sand...Aye there was no descrimination of catholics in scotland up until the 80's/early 90's never happened, nothing to see here, move along...To say this is purely a football problem is nonsense..It's a problem in society that manifests itself through football. If it was purely football, why don't we see similar issues in manchester or liverpool etc.I say again, a plague on both your houses. Stop being such an apologist for bigotry, it's one of the reasons why I hate going back to my parents and I'm glad that I no longer live in that part of Scotland.Hearts/Hibs do have a sectarian element although it is nowhere near as prevelant as Celtic/Rangers.
Remember Rangers little Jaunt down to Manchester a couple of seasons ago by any chance?
I remember the clown in the Rangers shirt at 7:30 am the day after who was standing on the M60 waving his blue scarf at swerving motorists. 😯
I remember the racist chants of those lovely Rangers fans walking down Market Street.
The EDL would have been proud.
Hmmm that's quite the straw man argument you've got going on there, except that I did acknowedge the fact there has been discrimination against Catholics in the past. I really don't need any lectures on the bigotry that existed in the West of Scotland in the 80s & 90s as it effectively poisoned my childhood. The whole thing is perpetuated in no small way by both memebers of the old firm because they do little to stop it and arguments about how the "other side is worse than we are" are quite frankly pathetic. Don't worry though, I have equal contempt for both sides of the Old Firm.
I am not saying that they are the sole cause of the problems that face that part of Scotland (the marching bands and segragated schools certainly play their part too) but they have the power and influence to do much more about it but choose not to.
segragated schools
OK - give me peace, conversation ended, in no other country in the world are catholic schools the issue they still seem to be for some in Scotland. you've made you position clear, talk about ropey ffs. wake yourself up.
Because you think you are right doesn't make it so.
It's where you are looking from.