AA a poor front five who defended well, but have been out scrummaged in the main yesterday was an improvement, a lineout that has misfired at critical times and Owens is not the greatest thrower.
The welsh lineout and Owens throwing have been very very reliable dopped off a couple of times when Baldwin came on. England lost lineouts at critical times too but The Kiwi Gouger is a very good chucker, George however doesnt seem to be.
I'm not sure you have even watched the games. Wales dominated the lineout v Ireland and did very well on their own ball v England.
Only the French have out scrummaged us. We held our own v Ireland and England. In the Scotland game we seemed to be much stronger than them but they messed about well and played the ref better.
None of which has much to do with AWJ being anonymous which he clearly hasnt. He's been the stand out Welsh front 5 player..
watson outplayed tips in the head to head
Players dont really oppose each other in that way anymore. A very simple analysis of the way Wales are defending makes the idea that Watson won more turnovers redundant anyway as Wales werent playing the jackle game in the six nations.
Watson is both up against players of similar type like Tips
Which is the opposite of what you said.
AA suprsingly watched all the games and still would say Wyn Jones has been anynomus in a very poor Welsh front five which echos what you yourself have said in earlier posts especially re Scotland.
Watson is a good seven and i would like him to go in lions but he will not as there are options more suited to the management.
Russell is a good player getting better and will not go to the lions this time, his game management was much better yesterday.
AA suprsingly watched all the games and still would say Wyn Jones has been anynomus in a very poor Welsh front five
Very suprising, you might want to try openning both eyes.
Wales lineout. Lost none v Italy. Lost 1 v England.
Lost 1 v Scotland. None against Ireland and 2 against France. At least 3 of those losses had Baldwin chucking as far as I recall but Owens is a poor thrower?
http://www.rbs6nations.com/mobile/en/matchcentre/match_data.php#LH75PDrcwGtgQO26.97
I have no problem with people looking at players differently but the level of delusion on this thread is remarkable. People have preconcieved ideas and just spout rubbish to suit it.
Russell is a good player getting better and will not go to the lions this time, his game management was much better yesterday.
Not so sure:
Sexton
Ford
Faz
Biggar
Russell
Pick 3? Last time Gatland only took 2 10's. I dont think he will do that this time or if he does Faz will go as a 12 so picking 3 stands.
I'd take
Henson
Sexton
Faz
But I think Gatland will go Sexton, Faz and then its between Biggar, Ford and Russel. Sexton does everything Biggar does and more so he's out. Then its a steaight call between Ford and Russell. Gatland hates midgets so Russell goes....
Anyone know of a source of stats that shows turnovers?
I still say Russells not the player for the lions unless you take most of the scots backs as well.
I think he is a far better player than Farrell in isolation but when you are picking a team to play together with not much time to get to know each other you need more conventional players like Sexton, Biggar , Farrell
Before this 6N I would have taken Sexton and Biggar and maybe Ford - but Biggar has not had a good tournament IMO nor has Ford and I don't rate Farrell at all so am struggling for Sextons backup. I think I would have to go Farrell right now - not because I think he is the second best 10 but because I think he is the second best 10 that plays in the way the lions need.
Does that make sense?
A A help me understand why the Welsh rugby public are so respondent with Welsh rugby and Howley as the coach?
Because he is rubbish
Well that went quick! Great championships, shame the games of the lsat day were't of the highest quality but no shortage of drama!
Now to get back to watching Bris get pumped week in and week out with the usual false hope.
Looked pretty certain that it was Huget that bit North to me......and would it be any surprise? He makes Hogg and Brown look like quiet affable characters in comparison! He's one of very few players I can think of that I actually do dislike and would be glad of leaving the game. Callum Clarke is the other.
why the Welsh rugby public are so respondent with Welsh rugby and Howley as the coach?
Because Howley is shit, things like picking players like Fluffbert over and over again despite him being hopelessly out of form when players like Stef Evans have been clearly much better than him all season. Playing a conservative game plan of bish bash bosh one out rugby when we dont have the forwards to do it. We have some players like Tipuric or Faletau with good footwork but we get them to play a game that doesnt suit them. We should play a bit more like Scotland try to player wider off the 10 and risk a few offloads at least in the opposition 22. Watch Wales play, great defence but the longer we have the ball the less likely we are to score!!
Our set piece has gone well and our defence was good apart from v scotland so we stay in games and they are tight but we create **** all. Only 3 new caps since the world cup. We need to try some options 1/2p does nothing in attack but we still get him not Liam, Fluffbert not Evans, Sammy Davies Junior needs same decent gametime but Howler needed wins in the Autumn so the usual suspects get flogged with the same old gameplan.
Edwards is the only one who has moved the team on with the defensive emphasis on double tackles and driving back rather than 1 chopping and the other jackling, but even this was 6 months after everyone had adapted to the latest ref fad.
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Seems reasonable but I dont get the George thing hasnt added much when he's come on. Would prefer more pace on the wing for Williams so Watson or Seymour for me. Gatland wont pic Tips if Waburton is fit and on form.
Or Daly on wing, would like to see him tried at 13 too.
Odd selection I would say. One Scot and 4welsh?
Plenty better winger s than North around
I think more scots in the squad, but not sure about the first xv
Plenty better winger s than North around
Really, name some.
AWJ is an odd one for me but I wouldnt replace him with anyone Scottish.
Seymour? Dunbar? Barclay?
I would have Watson but I accept many would disagree
Anthony Watson looked a shadow of the player on the Aus tour yesterday. Way off match fitness. When fit he will be a good bench option covering 15 too. Needs a haircut though.
Next year I want to see Robson at 9 for England. Robshaw has been a big miss.
The most disappointing thing for me yesterday was the amount of times we dropped the ball in good attacking positions. At least 6. And they seemed to know all our line outs. When you see the devastation from "off the top" line out ball against Scotland, yesterday they took nearly half our ball.
AA
Seymour Maitland Watson( the English wing) and a load of others
For me North is there on reputation not form. Outplayed by loads of folk this year
I think best at 2 after his 6n's. Could well be captain actually. If fit, I think that Warburton will start at 7.
Launchbury has to be a dead cert to start?
Seymour? Dunbar? Barclay?
Only one of them is a winger?
Seymour, Watson, Nowel, Maitland all good players but none have the raw finishing ability of North.
As for Dunbar well he was part of a midfield shredded by England. I dont think he'll make it and Barclay is just not good enough plenty of better 7's or 6's
Warburton is a better 6 or 7 than him, POM and Stander better 6's. Tipuric a better 7.
AA
Crossed posts
For me North is there on reputation not form. Outplayed by loads of folk this year
Really?!?How many other players would have scored the try he got v Ireland.
No italian out played him
Was against May v England, both quiet.
V Scotland Visser did him for a try and he was very quiet but please dont suggest Visser for the Lions. Was part of a very poor team second half and hardly got a pass.
V Ireland he bitch slapped the Irish back 3 all game and was outstanding.
V France he was quiet but hardly got a pass again all game. Did his bit in defence.
Watson was poor v ireland and has done little other trot in some nicely worked tries v scotland.
Maitland is injured and will struggle to make a case, neat tidy player but not the raw finisher that North is.
You are deluded.
North does have X factor is a real size and has pace. Looks to be coming back into form. His work at kick offs yesterday was good. Got to be at least be on the plane.
Daly is certainly the pick of England's wingers at the moment, he seems to have everything. But picking a 15 is very old school these days.
I'd be happy to have North in any team of mine.
Seeing as TJ likes stats North has twice as many caps and twice as many tries than Seymour yet is 4 years younger.
🙂 Nice one AA
Ireland wouldn't cap Tennassee Tam soi he came to Scotland!
Whats the try to game ratio and try numbers as a % of tires scored by the team when playing? ( no don't go and look it up)
One thing tho - if North played for Scotland he would see a lot more of the ball 🙂
North has about 30 tries in 75 tests Seymour about 15 in 30 so roughly the same. I would imagine in the time Seymour has been playing for Scotland the tries scored by each team are roughly the same. Neither team exactly prolific, although scotland more likely to score recently. I would contend that North has played more big games v big teams what with us playing nz, aus and sa almost every year!
Lies damn lies and statistics!
AWJ is an odd one for me but I wouldnt replace him with anyone Scottish.
I agree AA, but Launchbury should be there. Even a fit Kruis? AWJ has been anynomus this tournament.
Still not getting the full on hate for Howley, if he did allow players game time he would get panned as well, so is it back to the old days of the WRU, the howl of the public and forever changing the coach?
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Still not getting the full on hate for Howley
He's a shit coach! Has lost loads of games and not improved the Wales attack in 240 000 years of being attack coach
Is it just me or does launchberry look like a fat farmboy! Played well this tournament tho
Launchbury always looks like he's having an asthma attack too...great player though.
Though this interview with Sam was posting. Amazing how he can recall things with such clarity!!
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39320970
"Warburton believes that despite finishing fifth, Wales would have the quality to 'win all five games' if the tournament was staged again next month."
this is IMO one of wales problems. NOt accepting there are fundamental flaws in the team and that they have not moved on in the last 5 years when the others have.
same with Howley
Player backing his team and himself is not really an issue. If Howler said it then I would have a problem.
Although lets be honest we could easily have beaten England and France as it is.
"Warburton believes that despite finishing fifth, Wales would have the quality to 'win all five games' if the tournament was staged again next month."
cough[i]bollocks[/i]cough
Although lets be honest we could easily have beaten England and France as it is.
Although you didnt.
Sorry AA I do agree the captain has to back himself but really Wales looked like the 5th place team.
For me the first thing Wales need to do is recognise that they deservedly finished 5th and that the game has moved on since this teams glory years
You could not have easily beaten England. France maybe but England are a couple of levels above anyone else in the 6N much as it pains me to say it.
coughbollockscough
If he doesnt think it no one will though!!!
And lets be honest we thumped Ireland, how did your lot get on?
You could not have easily beaten England
Did you see the game?
Had Davies kicked to touch we could easily have won, it was a very tight game. How did your lot get on v England?
For me the first thing Wales need to do is recognise that they deservedly finished 5th and that the game has moved on since this teams glory years
So you expect a senior player to stand up in public and say. "Yeah mate we're shit like mun, lucky to come 5th. The games moved on and past us by like. Dont know why we bother, need some new coaches and ideas like, these are shit"
LIVID Sean Lamont last night launched an astonishing attack on his team-mates as another Six Nations campaign lurched towards disaster for Scotland.In a bitter four-letter rant triggered by one of the most abject displays ever seen at Murrayfield, Lamont accused Andy Robinson's flops of complacency and simply not caring enough.
"Lamont raged: "We NEED to point fingers - nothing short of that.
"It is time to shut the doors with the boys inside - maybe not even with the coaches there.
"It comes down to the question: How much do you want this? How much do you want the rest of the tournament to go our way?
"We are now away until we come back into camp next Sunday so the lads will have to do some soul searching.
"And we've got a depth in the squad where if the boys aren't coming up to the mark someone else will step in.
"Regardless of how a couple of individuals performed it is no good if the whole team isn't up there.
"As a team we weren't clinical enough and it was the same last week.
"That is why boys have to have a look at themselves. We have to get the thing together, tighten up and be a f****** squad.
so yes - I think Wales need to accept that they are now outclassed and out gunned, they are playing yesterdays game and that they need to rebuild. This is what Scotland had to do and they have done it. Scotland outclassed Wales and are 5tyh in the rankings. wales are down to 8th and nearly dropped out of the top 8.
"I'm sick of having this year after year, valiant losers or whatever," Lamont told PA Sport. "I'm sick of it - I want to win something, I really do. The players owe it to the coaches and the fans."We need to pull our fingers out, there's been too many years gone by where we've been also-rans. It's not good enough. We need to do some finger-pointing and soul searching."
But Sean Lamont was shit!
And to be fair this Wales team has won stuff they havent gone through years and years of being shit and then talked themselves up as having a chance of winning at twickers (something most of the welsh players will have done more than once) and then caved in and been totally caved in.
Yup =- but thats what they are facing now unless they take action and radical action. In some ways the parallel with those Scotland years lamont was ranting abut is there. Too many players towards the end of their careers but no planning for the future so no up and coming players getting experience
A couple of years ago we had to bring in loads of inexperienced players at one. One 6N match I remember out total number of caps was half wales - and half of all scotland caps belonged to two players. We had something like 20 of the squad with single figure caps because Robinson kept on with the old guard in an attempt to not get stuffed rather than take the short term pain of bringing in the new guys.
I am assuming you have the players out there who are young and have potential of course. Sam Davies?
