[Closed] Rugby thread 2016/2017

Sad to hear of mongo going..

Also theres some bloke who plays for Northampton who is pretty handy too. Picknmix or something!

But is typically French - the Saints match against Exeter he went form sublime to ridiculous in about 10 secs and just shrugged his shoulders when it didn't go his way.

True but then Hughes was the same for Wasps v sarries.

Probable back row of Itoje/Vunipola/Robshaw, maybe williams.
Brown now VC so will be in. Ford definately 10, wing uncertain now 2 main men injured. Maybe Rokoduguni and Yarde?

I flew EJ back from Japan after the Aus tour. He fell asleep in First Class with his notepad open on the table with his team sheet for the autumn internationals!!!

With fazlet injured, who's going to be at 12? Slade? Devote didn't go very well last time, Marchant hasn't been playing brilliantly, and Te'o isn't even starting for wuss.
Itoge in the back row? Makes robshaw 7. More likely Harrison surely?

I flew EJ back from Japan after the Aus tour. He fell asleep in First Class with his notepad open on the table with his team sheet for the autumn internationals!!!

Always love a bit of shoulder surfing! Often bewildered by some of the conversations and papers people choose to publicise on a flight!

The rule change on the breakdown to be introduced in the NH makes it almost certain Itoje is a back row forward for the next few years.

What rule change?

Jones wants a big, hard tackling back row for SA, which means Itoje is in with all the injuries. Replace him with Launchbury at lock, and it's a big pack!!

Back row options are starting to look a tad limited given that they're dropping like flies!

Will be interesting to see how we go in the Autumn - after a very year last year, expectations will be high. Can they deal with the pressure?

AA, an attempt is being made to stop 7's reaching in as the third man, then falling over and sealing it. Coming to a prem ground near you in 2017 ( almost certainly)

So does that promote genuine standing over the ball to compete?

I can see the idea, but a good rucking used to prevent people playing it on the ground / being on the wrong side.

Isnt sealing off already illegal? ****ing refs and rule tweekers piss me off. No offence I'm sure you're lovely!!

Haven't done more than a school game in two seasons AA, fire away!

4 weeks for Cronin.
Must have gone for M&S double chocolate

Something had to be done. Current rule seems to be if you can remain on your feet when in defence at the ruck; turnover. Doesn't matter whether you're anywhere near the ball or not.
I hope they a grip of this not rolling away/not held crap next.

The game is becoming decided on technical infringements at scrums, rucks and line outs, sadly, these days.

Ospreys hump Falcons, is this possible in nature? Happened in the Liberty 😆

Tigers playing dreadful rugby. Good bit of niggle though.

Fair play Glasgow. They looked physical and accurate.

Tigers do look all at sea at the moment. How much longer will Cockers have a job?

Great win by the weegies. Can this be their year even in the group of death? they have had no luck at all in the European cup so far.

Glasgow game was quite good fun. Enjoyed seeing Tigers get humped. Aweful defence from them first half.

I hope some of the english fans here now understand why I rave about some of these players. Ickle jonny in particular. Unfortunately I only saw the last 10 mins of the game

That Sarto was brilliant.

After 7 penalties in 7 minutes I thought it was going to be a long night. I just assumed we were reverting our usual European form so I'm quite happy with the result 🙂

Ickle jonny 13 tackles non missed. 5 passes, 7 runs and a lineout stolen. He is the cornerstone of that pack.

Bearing in mind that Glasgow have to replace at least three key players a year, that was a fine result. How much of a gem is Townsend as well? That way of playing is all his... Teej; Wee Gray is so much better than his brother now, isn't he? Is this you jumping coasts in your loyalty? 😀

I thought Russel was very good too kicking, running and passing..maybe he is what the Lions need?

Just seen that King has left the Saints....announced just before a big weekend for them. They're in for a very tough season I think. Something just isn't clicking for them.

I do worry about Russell's head injury though. That's the kind of knock you can potentially never recover fully from. Doesn't seem to have slowed him down though.

Have you seen the mess of it? It looks like he has been glassed,poor guy. Mind you; rich,young,talented and going out with Ms Scotland. Fin,Fin; where did it all go so wrong?

His team mates were suitably narked when that ausdie **** tip tackled him too!!

Heard a recent finn Russell interview sounded like a punch drunk boxer.

Not normally a Sarries fan but they've just put in a sublime first half performance against Toulon - ran in 3 great tries and made some world class players look pretty ordinary.

Worth turning on for the 2nd half if you're not already watching!

Crikey I dont like Saffercens but they are playing some good stuff..I see 1/2p still likes to tackle with his head!

Not sure what's going on with 1/2p's footwork - think I've seen him slip more in this game than the combined total of every previous game I've watched.

Still playing in mouldies when he should have moved to studs / blades?

What a game! Real edge of the seat stuff at the end - well done Sarries for holding on.

Tipurics try last night

Very impressive and efficient from Sarries...and that comes from someone who really isn't a fan of them.

Worcs really slipped up...ooops.

Duckman - I grew up in Weegieville! Talk about conflicted! I was Born in the west country, very English accent and name grew up in glasgow - and I end up an Edinburgh and Scotland supporter.

onehundredthidiot

He sounded like that before his head injury

Good win for Scarlets. Wont have the power to compete with Saracens or Toulon though.
Liam Williams to keep Wales 15 shirt from 1/2p?

Farrell MOTM in his first game back!
That Tip try was sublime.

Munster coach Anthony Foley has died..only 42. Awful news. RIP

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37672703

Just saw that - really sad news.

Sheesh - puts it all in perspective really 🙁

I have just had chance to watch the whole Glasgow game. Thats a real lesson they gave Leicester and backs up what I have been banging on about for years - there is no substitute for speed both over the ground and between the ears. Pro 12 top games are played at a higher tempo than in the AP and boy it showed. tigers simply could not live with glasgows pace in attack and the number of support players glasgow have and could not do anyting about the line speed of the Glasgow defence. Because Tigers are not used to this sort of game they did not have the tools in their armoury to counter it. No chips over the top, no runarounds - nothing. NO answers at all. Gonna be a few teams taking notice of that and I would bet tigers do some homework for the return fixture but we have more to come from Glasgow. Russell is still playing his way back and looked a touch of his normal pace

IMO and I know a lot of tigers fans will disagree but I think the ref was kind to them. should have been a penalty try and a couple more yellow cards for the maul and scrum infringements.

Correct decision on the tip tackle tho

RIP Anthony Foley. Terrible tragic news. Just 42

Actually TJ, sadly tigers have shipped more than 30 points in something like 65% of their last 15 games.....
Watch Wasps, Bath, Saracens, Exeter and you'll see what Glasgow did and then a fair bit more.

Sadly a declining force, with a lot of fire power, lots of (ex) internationals and no one now good enough to get into the national team. Says something about the coaching I fear.

Tigers 4th in the aP. (last years champions??) Yes some aP teams play a similar game but not at the same pace and with the same fitness.

I have watched a few AP games this season. Saracens game is nothing like Glasgows ( Damn fine win for Sarries tho)

Tigers defence is shocking this season, and we never play that well on plastic pitches.

I didn't see the Glasgow game so can't comment on that but we've got rid of our defence coach as we have been shipping tries lately. We've got some great players but something isn't working, I've always been a fan of Richard Cockerill but fear he may be out of a job come the end of the season unless something changes.

ads - its on youtube

I really don't want to watch........

Just to clarify, I don't want to sound like i'm saying it's all down to Tigers poor defence. Glasgow obviously beat Tigers well.

I get that.

Its things liker Pyrgos never waits at the back of the ruck - he always gets to the ruck quickly and gets the ball away knowing his players are in position. Everything happens just a fraction quicker and that creates space and mismatches and in defense Glasgow play a high risk game - often sending someone shooting up and going for intercepts. This gives chances to their opposition but Tigers could not exploit it as they are not used to that speed from defenders. One point Tigers recycled a dozen times and went back about 20 m

Yeah, I think this comes with playing as a team, you know where your guys are. Tigers seem really disjointed at times. I thought when Aaron Mauger came this would change but they still don't seem to know where anyone is. There's no fluency about their play. They seem to be dithering about a lot looking for something to happen rather than making it happen.

We've had some touches of brilliance this season, but it's all individuals. If they get their act together I reckon they could be good, but at the minute, like you say TJ, they just can't handle teams that play with speed and fluency.

Tigers 4th in the aP. (last years champions??) Yes some aP teams play a similar game but not at the same pace and with the same fitness.

Tigers haven't won the prem for since 2013 and are in an odd place coaching wise at the moment - Mauger is trying to bring his influence but it's taking time. They're also missing some serious ball carries in the pack.

Wasps play with some real pace and will be a force is they can sort their defense out. Sarries can turn it on when it suits too.

Clermont looked very good yesterday and laid down a bit or a marker.

Don't get me wrong, Glasgow were very good on Friday. How they go against Racing will give a real indication of how they sit.

I don't want to come across as Tigers were bad rather than Glasgow were good. Glasgow are a very good side (even with some top players missing), but I simply don't subscribe to the theory that Pro12 teams play an inherently superior (faster, more aggressive) form of rugby that the top Prem teams can't live with. Tigers have unfortunately (against the teams I've already highlighted) shown an inability to cope with their fast defences and aggressive quick thinking attacks as well.

As a passionate tigers supporter I'm ashamed of the capitulation showed on Friday and it won't be the last time this season I'm sure 🙁

It's alright we've got Racing* and Saracens up next.......

*Although Racing don't seem to travel well.

yep, what could possibly go wrong...!

Tinybits - I didn't say superior - I said faster - this gives weaknesses as well - Glasgow 7 knock ons in the game for example and players shooting up in defense is very high risk as well

Just watched the sarries game - Wrigglesworth was much slower to get the ball away from the back of the ruck than Pyrgos. Rew calling "use it" a fair amount as the 9 was there and ball available but Wrigglesworth has to wait a couple of seconds for his players to get in place / to assess whats happening. Pyrgos simply moves the ball as soon as he can get his hands on it. That creates the space from the speed

Bath outplayed Glasgow a couple of seasons ago by slowing the ball and retaining possession. an absolute masterclass in how to deal with Glasgow

Just for giggles - Itoje that everyone raves about ( and I think him a fine player)

1 kick, 4 passes, 4 runs for 4m no lineouts stolen 8 tackles non missed 2 pens conceded one yellow ( a bit unlucky)no turnovers conceded

Ickle jonny
4 passes 7 carries for 5m one lineout stolen 16 tackles non missed 2 pens given away, one turnover conceded no cards

Jonny is involved in the whole game all the time - fantastic engine on him. I still rate him as one of if not the best lock around

TJ - I hope he is that good, because the Lions will need him. Itoje is both a physical specimen, and intelligent. Stats are irrelevant without context. Different game plans will produce different numbers.

Slightly OT, but well done to Sam Burgess on the captaincy of England RL. Such a shame he was never given time to settle properly in RU as I would love to have seen him in a few years. Playing him at different positions for club & country was just ridiculous.

Also, If JG is as good around the park as you say, is there any prospect of him in the back row?

I still rate him as one of if not the best lock around

He IS very good, no doubt, but he might not even make the Lions when you consider AWJ, Itoje, Kruis, Launchbury, Toner and Henderson will all be in the frame. Not to mention his brother too......

Out of that list, Itoje will be going as a 6, Launchbury looks way off the pace this season, haven't seen AWJ this year, but wee Gray is better than Kruis, Henderson and def Toner who I don't rate at all. He is not better than Lawes who has been immense in a crap Saints team.

dantsw13 - no - too slow for a back rower. I like fast backrowers ( but he will be faster than Haskell I guess)

Duckman - I feel Lawes has not somehow reached his potential. Has he been better this year? (not seen him play) I thought he could become a great but somehow didn't. I've never really been an AWJ fan. Perhaps I need to watch him play again. I shall go stat hunting

Plenty good locks around for the lions. Lots of competition and someone will miss out.

Out of that list, Itoje will be going as a 6

Lies damn lies and statistics of course! Grey has now missed 3 tackles in the last 3 seasons. shocking stuff.

Out of sorts tigers? - 4th in their league Toulon 4th in theirs.
AWJ stats at the weekend - and if Ickle Jonny had easier opposition that Itoje then AWJ had even easier
1 kick 7 passes 12 runs for 7 m ( he got his hands on the ball a lot)
14 tackles 2 missed 2 turnovers conceded no lineouts stolen

AWJ was outstanding against the ABs - that's all you need to know, especially as it's the ABs we'll be playing.

Toner does look like some gangly bloke from accounts but he and Henderson were very effective against the Boks - who have a good 2nd row themselves.

I think Launchbury is coming back gradually but if Itoje goes to the back row he'll get a good run out in the Autumn series and we'll see where he's at.

JG better than Kruis? Maybe, but Kruis does all that dull spadework while Itoje runs around doing all the stuff that gets noticed. Brian Moore described him as like a modern day Wade Dooley but "without the violence".

I wish there were stats for rucks hit as well - Ickjle jonny is right in the game all the time. Co captain as well

I've never really been an AWJ fan.

Dear God!!

I reckon he might not make the tour though. Itoje, Kruis, J Grey and Lawes all better at the moment. He was quite poor last season carrying knocks. I think he may be past his best..hope I'm wrong.

Oh and Itoje at 6? In NZ. Hes a cracking player but doubt Kaino will be fazed by a big lump whilst he's running rings round him.

We seem to have this obsession with big back rows in the NH that NZ do not have. McCaw who is maybe the best of all time is not that big - and Hamish Watson who is only a tiny bit smaller than McCaw is considered by many to be too small for international play

( but he will be faster than Haskell I guess)

But the Hask did flourish under Jones - I thought he was a meathead, but he was immense in Australia this summer.

Whoever goes on the Lions will be in for a tough time - the way the AB's are playing at the moment, it'll be a good effort to be competitive.

Lions back row; If he plays there for Engerland Itoje, V-P and Warburton if he recovers ...So: two Welshmen 😀
(In before A-A)
I firmly believe that Itoje has the makings of a true world class 6,and the capacity and ability to do it before the tour.

I just dont see the Lions bullying NZ up front by picking say Vunipola, Itoje and Hask as a backrow. NZ would move them around too much in defence by varying the point of attack and then I cant see them steam rollering the NZ pack when we have the ball. Wales and others have had the most success against them by playing with quick ball and variety. A monster front 5 a balanced backrow and quick thinking backs who combine pace and power. We also need a really quick back 3 who can defend well.

No idea who these players are but playing our best lock at 6 isnt the answer.

Warburton is broke again and hasnt been in good form for a while.

Vunipola,Robshaw and Tipuric on current form imo.
I think Faletau is the best 8 in Britain at the moment but he's broken too. A better all round player than Vunipola who is a better carrier.

Having said that **** it Vunipola 8 Faletau 7 and Itoje 6...that at least make them think!!

Warburton is Gatland's captain, he will obviously be going! Did you see the shift V-P put in against Toulon?

Yep. I said on here he has improved and looks lighter and fitter was outstanding v Wasps too. Just think Faletau is the better player I've seen the shifts he has put in for Wales for years. His defensive work rate in unreal, wins lineouts, links attacks, makes hard yards. Only place Vunipola is better is carrying into and through contact

Back row. Hardie if he finds some form this year? How about Hamish Watson if you want a back row with pace? Barclay?