[Closed] Rugby thread 2016/2017

I didn't say it would work!

It wasn't aimed at you 😀 There seems to be a media belief that we will chew them up and spit them out up front; thus creating massive space for our backs. We can be guilty of looking at the the SH teams and harking back to nearly a decade ago when they HAD depowered contact and think it is still the same because of the dazzling running game.

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But they havent played the Ab's who are good there, and they lost out to Aus in that position albeit winning the game. The Lions will focus on clearing out and preventing quick ball.

Is it me or does this make no sense?

Strong squad for the lions - is it the strongest ever as espoused by Keith Wood, Dawson and M Williams last night - ? But feel for Launchbury well worth a spot on tour, hope AWJ is fit and well playing to his potential. Good to see Sinkler in there, Scots numbers about right, cannot see anyone else pushing in not even Watson.

On the bright side, we've got a couple of months to bask in the warm glow of pondering how the Lions might beat the All Blacks before we wake up to the grim reality that will be the first test.

(The aforementioned grim reality may have already become evident in some of the provincial games up to that point.)

Is it me or does this make no sense?

Its you, i wrote it from a mixed nations not Welsh bias perspective, it wouldnt make sense to you. Here it is again translated for you in your normal tone: "The Welsh players will win the series, and if the Lions do actually lose it'll be everybody elses fault especislly the english becuse a) the dont have a 7 to provide and b) they are not Welsh yet c) the Welsh contigent will have demonstrated such abilities that they should immediately be annointed World Champion status."

There.

Big Jim doesn't think AWJ will tour. Thinks his shoulder is blown up. Just his opinion, but he did seem pretty convinced. He also said that Launch's lack of line out calling has worked against him.
The rugby pod is a pretty good listen. A bit purile perhaps but that's part of it's charm!

Its you, i wrote it from a mixed nations not Welsh bias perspective,

Like

we should take a 7 who's good on the floor.

So Warburton isnt that?

The Lions will focus on clearing out and preventing quick ball.

How they going to do that if you think they have no 7 who is good on the floor?

Pure undiluted dribble.

As for your anti welsh tirade it says more about you than me. I was simply pointing out the need for a good on the floor 7 is much reduced these days due to changes in the way the game is reffed, although I doubt you watch much rugger apart from England games so had no doubt not noticed.
I would also add that Cane is not a real ground hogg type 7 and neither was Richie.

Kryton; bearing in mind your master race posts when drunk,you have a brass neck digging up anybody. Even the late THM was telling you to wind it in.

He also said that Launch's lack of line out calling has worked against him.

I've seen this said before, seems like bollocks to me, I'd take him. Would be a shame if AWJ doesnt go...my main hope is that Gethin gets called up from Tonga and comes off the bench in a test. Would be a 6th Lions cap and he'd be up to 130 welsh caps by then!!

Even the late THM

Has he gone? Flounced or banned?

New job @aa, I should be seeing him soon for a catch-up. Still unfit to ride with him.

I've seen this said before, seems like bollocks to me, I'd take him.

New job @aa

Economic adviser to the EU whilst teaching geography a level too no doubt.

To me the squad is classic Gatland - full of is favourites no matter if they are broken or out of formand picked on size not game breaking ability.

Its clear how he will play - and it will be 3 nil stroll for NZ. He has said penalties are going to be cruicial and that the lions will have the edge. Sure kicking 5 pens will get some points - but you only beat NZ by scoring tries and plenty of them

lol im confused.

a) im not drinking
b) my post wasnt intended to be anti Welsh, it was my interpretation of AA's usual one eyed view meant comically, im sorry if it doesnt come across that way.

I dont think Warbs is as good as the NZ or Aus sevens over the ball, you might disagree but thats my opinion.

I dont think Warbs is as good as the NZ or Aus sevens over the ball, you might disagree but thats my opinion.

Maybe or maybe not but he's the best 7 over the ball in Britain, not that this is particularly important given current reffing.

No doubt TJ you think the Scottish players are hard done by and Gatland should play an expansive game with more scots. Two things stand in the way firstly the stupidly tight timescale to adaopt any game plan so best to keep it simple and secondly the fact that the Scottish team collectively shat the bed at the first sign of presdure at twickers and imploded.

The most hard done by are the three Welshies who weren't picked.
Finishing fifth and having 12 Lions, nice way for the boss to single out three useless picks for the blame.

AA - do you read what people actually write?

Yes I think Gatlands approach is all wrong and cannot lead to a win - but I agree that few scots would make it into the squad ( as I put above) due to the fact the best scots are in positions with plenty of options - apart from centre and that the England and Glasgow / sarries games put many out of contention.

You will not beat the ABS with gatland in charge. His approach is all wrong and how he can justify 12 welsh players when wales were so poor in the 6N

A lot of comments on no ' Scottish' voice in the selection process, and whether Gattland had insight to the players, like Sinkler through Roundtree.....All said Hugh Jones is injured (and may have got in with a Welsh sounding surname) and there are stronger players in all positions as well as Scotland are a stronger team collectively.

You will not beat the ABS with gatland in charge. His approach is all wrong

So given he has 3 weeks or so to produce a team capable of beating NZ what should he do?

Pick players in form, pick the best players for an attacking game plan. stop playing his favourites. 12 welsh players is unjustifiable as they were so poor in the 6N

Team should be england +

So we have had a number of pages of pick this player, pick that player but no one has the stones to make a case for who to drop and who goes in their place and TJ is critical of the game plan before a balls even been touched!!! What do you mean by attacking and why do you think Gatland wont try to "attack"?

12 welsh players is unjustifiable as they were so poor in the 6N

Came within 5 mins of beating England, beat ireland handily, took 240 000mins of added time for France to beat them in paris, only really had one very poor half v scotland.

Halfpenny, Davies, AWJ, SOB even Sexton were below their best and could makes cases against but all 5 have masses of experience wbich will be needed. He could still easily pick:

Vunipola 1
George
Cole
Lawes
Kruis
Itoje
Warburton
Vunipola 2
Youngs
Faz
Nowel
Teo
Joseph
Watson
Hogg

English enough for you? (DD will love it!!)

come off it AA - wales were poor in the 6N. Poor. Never looked like beating England and were completely blown away by scotland. where do they sit in the 6N table?

Gatland could still suprise us but it looks like he is going to play Gatland ball again from the comments he has made and the players he has selected.

Picking 1/2p is a clear example of this - he is out of form, he is not one of the best attacking players available but he is Gatlands favourite so he goes.

Never looked like beating England

England broke Welsh hearts with a late try from Elliot Daly snatching an unlikely victory in Cardiff and stretching their winning run to 16 matches.

Liam Williams' slicing first-half try and 11 points from the boot of Leigh Halfpenny looked to have sealed a merited home triumph, the Principality Stadium awash in song and celebration.

Defending Six Nations champions England had led through Ben Youngs' early try but were then bullied for much of a pulsating contest, their callow back row outmuscled and their attack imprecise.

Er, we were leading with 5 mins to go?
Dear god people accuse me of being one eyed.

Again you witter on about 1/2p but fail to highlight who you would pick ahead of him. Payne is already in. Kearney is injured I think and cannot defend well enough especially against a team like NZ. Brown is pretty solid but never passes who else is in serious contention? Hogg is the front runner for the tests anyway and Loopy Liam is in the squad. Halfpenny's kicking will be needed too if Sexton and Faz are in the test team the mid weekers would need a back up kicker to Biggar.

AA - go on - justify 12 welsh players V two scots when the scotland team were clearly better than wales.

You really think Hogg will be the test starter? Of course its going to e 1/2p and like last time Hogg will be lucky to get on the pitch for the tests. You can remind me of this later and think up a suitable forfeit for me if I am wrong!

The silver lining for this is of course is that the lions is going to muck up scotland the least. Should be to our advantage next time.

I wouldn't have taken 1/2p at all. Maitland instead.

TJ stop whining, if Hogg isn't first choice I will eat my hat, I think he will be targeted and with his short fuse will get himself into trouble.

Pigface - I'm not whining. I never expected more than a couple of scots to get into the squad. Its just all playing out a it was obvious it would from the moment Gatland was announced as coach

Pigface - hope your hat is tasty and IIRC Hogg hasn't actually been petulant for a couple of years now

There was no dominant team in the 6 nations. England won because they managed to win an away game, which no one else achieved. Welsh players would have won "tiebreakers" because many have toured with the Lions before and also NZ. Obviously Gatland thinks that it is of value.

This squad is only the beginning, some won't make it to NZ because of injury in the final weeks of the season and you never know who will make the team. Both Martin Corry and Alex Corbisiero were not in initial squads yet ended up being key players in Test Matches.

Austen Healey made a good point in the Telegraph, he said the worst Scottish omission was not taking Townsend as a coach as that would have freshened things up rather than having essentially the same coaching team as last time.

Hogg hasn't actually been petulant for a couple of years now

Townsend was never going to go as an assistant to Gatland. No other international head coach would consider this or even be asked

Townsend was never going to go as an assistant to Gatland. No other international head coach would consider this or even be asked

Plenty have been willing in the past, including Gatland.

justify 12 welsh players V two scots when the scotland team were clearly better than wales.

On the first point I have, now its your turn, you tell me which players are better and why thats how debate works. On the second point Scotland were not clearly better they won a couple of home games and then got totally demolished v england. Had the players shown any spine in that game they might have been in with a shout as it is they dont deserve to go after that.
Maitland is a decent shout but how was his six nations form if thats your main criteria? Does he deserve to go as a 14/15 over Loopy Liam?

Townsend was never going to go as an assistant to Gatland. No other international head coach would consider this or even be asked

Townsend was asked.

I know he was asked but would any international coach go as an assistant - especially as we all know there is a huge clash of style between them with townsend being " nothing ventured nothing gained" ie willing to take risks and accept the inevitable mistakes and gatland being much more "safety first"

Can you imagine. "what do with do with the ball kicked deep? T: " well catch it look to counter attack and move the ball wide quickly" G: " No no no - its two rucks to get the FB in position then kick it as far as you can"

Both approaches have arguments for them but no way could these two work together to produce coherent tactics

Maitland would be instead of 1/2p not loopy liam who I thought had a very good 6N

Scotland were clearly better than Wales - look at the table and the head to head result

Who else of the scots should be there? As we have both said the two stuffings made their stock dip for sure. Without those the case could have been made for more.

Dunbar instead of Farrell - why? best 12 in the 6N ( but see poor showing against England) Most steals of any back in the 6N. Solid defender, able to get the most out of the backs alongside him him

Watson instead of one of the back rows - why - best 7 in the 6N and completely outplayed Warbs in the head to head. a complete ruddy nuisance at the breakdown and in this 6N made good yards as well

The others like Ickle Jonny are in positions where really it makes little difference but again I would have taken him rather than AWJ. However his form did dip in the last few games and he did not make a strong case

Its obvious that Gatland is a very conservative coach and has gone with what works for him - familiar players. He is not willing to take risks and IMO without taking risks you will not beat the ABs. You need folk able to steal the ABs ball and to take high risks in attack

Watson instead of one of the back rows - why - best 7 in the 6N and completely outplayed Warbs in the head to head

Warburton played six for the entire competion you numpty!

Tell me why you think Gatland wanted Townsend to be an assistant coach?

Scotland were clearly better than Wales - look at the table and the head to head result

The Six Nations with the lack of home and away games make such direct comparisons hard. All we can really say is England were the best. If scotland had put up a fight at twickenham or in paris I might agree with you. Scotland beat ireland too but you havent been whinning on about too many Irish.
Lets be honest as soon as Scotland ha e come against a team playing well their "attacking" rugby has been shown to be powder puff shite.

As for playing high risk rugby to beat the all blacks you are living in a dream world. How did the last British team to beat them play?

Just back from the Nepali jungle and seen the squad.... Shocked at Kruis over Launchbury personally.

....more shocked at the suggestion of Bennett in place of Farrell 😯

3-0 to NZ, reckon they'll possibly win by 100 points aggregate over 3 tests.

Just watched some of Brumbies v Hurricanes, if that is what the club sides can do the the Lions are screwed 😆

Gatland wanted Townsend ( actually I don't think he did really - he knew he would refuse) as a fig leaf.

Bennett is broken - but why play farrell at 12 when there are better specialists around?

as a fig leaf

😆
😆
😆

Gatland is really into trying to appease everyone...
You really are comedy gold!

but why play farrell at 12 when there are better specialists around?

Name them?

I know you're not a fan of Farrell TJ, but you can't argue with what he has been a key part of over the last 12 months or so - AP championship winning side, European Cup winning side, back to back 6N including a GS, white wash tour of Aus in Aus etc. He's played a big part in those teams.

He's not a mercurial talent, but he's good at what he does and covers two positions. His passing is an awful lot better than it was. I was a massive detractor of his but he's started to win me round somewhat!

I do agree that the Scots have been hard done by with only two players selected. In previous years I could see why, but they've played well this year (Twickenham excluded :lol:)

I don't think that the Scots have been that hard done by really. Nel would have gone if he were fit, the two Gray brothers haven't had a great season and Launchbury is harder done by than either of them in not going. In the back row, Watson was probably in contention for a squad place but wouldn't start a test ahead of anyone included....Robshaw and Haskell are at least as hard done by in missing out. Test of the pack are nowhere near.

Onto the backs....Laidlaw is injured, Hogg will start the tests, Seymour a strong matchday contender, Russell probably missed out in place of Biggar, noone else is really stands out as a missing Lion to me. I think Sinkler, Moriarty, AWJ, 1/2p are the guys luckiest to go....however the former two are in great form and the latter two have huge amounts of credit in the bank to justify their places.

I think it is both understandable and inevitable that few Scots would go. Jonny Grays form dipped these last few weeks, plenty of good second row cover, plenty of good back rows around and its clear the 50 / 50 decisions would go against the scots. Also the style of play the scots are used to playing is too far away from Gatlands way. Russell was never going to go - he needs familiar players around him and he is about as far from Gatlands ideal 10 as you can be. I wouldn't have taken him. I'd have Farrell at 10 first

Watson and Dunbar are the two really hard done by - both the best in their position in the 6N

I bet you tho neither Hogg or Seymour get a test start. North will play instead of Seymour and 1/2p instead of Hogg

Watson and Dunbar are the two really hard done by

TJ that first 35 minutes of Scot Vs Wales, the Scots were no where they imploded and good Scottish side took the game to them and I have to say Wales were within a whisker of beating England, brutally competed Ireland off-the pitch and should have won against France.

Watson is a good player but not better than those going, the case for Launchbury is clearer - he had played exceptionally in all the 6 nations games and i would have included instead of lawes or henderson - Maitland is good but Loopy finishes better and played well this year.

Farrell seems to be competing for 10 not 12 with O'Teo the lead for 12, rightly or wrongly, the backs choosen have some serious attacking potential and interchangeable in position Daly outside centre, wing or full back. Joseph can be unstoppable and unplayable just ask the Scots.

The lions will have to attack to win, but the expectations will be ball carrying forwards making the ground and linking play with width and speed the key, hence the choice of really good ball handlers, Mako/Sinkler/Ijote even Owens can play a bit if you point him the right direction. The back row looks immense ( even without Watson) CJ possibly the best backrow in the six nations close second Warbs, and a fit Billy ( minus table cloth) with Tipuric, Moriarty to come on....... Impressive.

TJ I will take the bet that Hogg starts a Test.North is the starter in front of Seymour by a way.

vondally - I'd have maitland instead of 1/2p not loopy liam who I thought was very good - so you have maitland and loopy liam who can cover both wing and FB. Maitland prefers to play FB - thats why he left Glasgow

I agree and said above that although some scots can feel hard done by its not an obvious injustice bar [i]perhaps[/i] Watson as they guys they are competing with are of a very similar standard - Watsons problem is he plays for a crap club side and no one but us scots had heard of him until this 6N. He was the standout 7 of the 6N tho.

Scotland took Wales apart - Wales didn't implode - they simply could not compete. Two halves of playing to yor potential ( against Ireland and Wales) do not really showcase your talents tho do they.

Lauchberry is a funny one - again I would have taken him.

TJ - sorry but I was in the East Stand for the games this year and pretty much Wales capitulation was an implosion, some good half time talking to the Scots yes Visser transformation was incredible but it was all helped by a lack of leadership in Welsh ranks and a plan they could implement like catching the ball or completing that line out. Watson played exceptionally when he came on but Wales could have been clear by 35 minutes.

Still would have 1/2 P over Maitland.

The second half "performance" from Walrs v scotland was an odd one. Looked to be playing poorly but were in charge first half and then after a couple of defensive lapses they seemed to be all at sea. Scotland certainly gave them defe sive problems they wetent expecting which is odd as Scotland played as expected, maybe the coaches had half an eye on England, Ireland and France who are all more direct.

Have to say it; wales were poor. Not poor by means of playing crap, they have loads of quality but their game management was woeful. Their shape was quite un-walesey too, howley experimenting?
Vondally is right, they lacked leadership which is partly why I'm so surprised that the lauded captains (one who got the job) for the Lions were both welsh.
I think that it [i]could[/i] be viewed that wales are a team of good players under performing and scotland were a team of decent players doing the bizz (for the most part).

So, no rugby at all this weekend. What should I do?

Would you like me to discuss the "merits" of various welsh players?

Euro games are on. Can Munster deal with Sarries any better than Glasgow did?

Would you like me to discuss the "merits" of various welsh players?

Would be a first!!

Euro games are on.

Really?!?!? 😉

How about discussing getting this lad out of his ground humping contract and back playing proper rugby?

Well both North and Charteris appear to have giraffe ancestry with their long necks. I suppose that could be considered a "merit"

As an aside what lovely basic skills for that last try, draw a man and give a simple pass..why the **** can the welsh backs not do

You could tell me again how Seymour is a better wi ger than North?
Or you could tell me how you feel about there being more more Kiwis than Scots in the lions squad??

^^Giraffeist! ^^

Is there really more kiwis that scots in the team,wow that must smart 🙂

😉

cos he outplayed him head to head, score tries per cap at a higher rate and is much better looking? Infact he should join Edinburgh! ( Tennessee Tam that is - North is too ugly for Edinburgh) altho I am beginning to think our contractual obligations to only have good looking players with good hair is having adverse effects on our playing standards. Perhaps Henson needs to Join Edinburgh?

I'm really not arsed that much about the scots in the lions - should be good for Scotland next 6N

TJ now i agree on the potential for Scotland next 6 nations, but more away games so will test them.

Have my tickets for the Euro finals in a couple of weeks so watching eagerly this weekend

Payne and Teo are Kiwis, Seymour is an american.
Lets also not forget the Vunipolas are welsh, thats 14 welshmen and one scot

Aye - one scot is worth 14 welshmen!

Yep second that....Scotland should be pretty strong next 6n's....France always go well year after a Lions tour too. England stand to be hardest hit obviously with more players in the squad....although we have by far the best strength in depth.

Last Lions tour pretty much ended Hibbard and Tom Youngs' international careers.....whom do we reckon will fall victim this time around?

True TJ,imagine how physically tough the lions tour will be,might be a blessing in disguise for the scots.

True TJ,imagine how physically tough the lions tour will be,might be a blessing in disguise for the scots.

Well, as Scotland are touring [s]and getting mullered by[/s] Australia....

score tries per cap at a higher rate

Evidence please!

Moving to the pig ****ers esstentially ended his international career, especially when he pulled out of a welsh game injured and then played for the pig ****ers

Mullered? We are not Wales you know - our recent record against Aus is not bad 😉 Last time we played them down under we won IIRC.
Its actually looking like a good tour in terms of tests with playing Fiji, Italy and Aus so a chance to play some fringe players and build for next year

Evidence AA? - you provided it in an earlier mass debate over this. Tennessee Tam was a try every 2nd game but north was 2 tries in 5 games IIRC

You remember wrong!

North is much younger and with twice as many tries and caps too.

Seymour 36 caps 16 tries 2.25
North 69 caps 30 tries 2.30
Including lioons caps 72/32 2.25!!

[quote="AA"] Really North has 32 tries from 72 internationals and is 24. Seymour 36 caps 16 tries and is 28.

Shine a light - maths was never my strong point - using a calculator both are at 0.44 tries per cap from your figures

One thing you cannot refute - Seymour is the better looking chap
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Dagnamitt - posted wrong linky!

Well he has a better beard anyway 😉

AA - a wee project if you want to amuse yourself

a pretty boys 15 V and ugly barstewards 15.

Or - a hobbits 15 - captain master samwise ie Ross Ford, Frodo ie Laidlaw at 9. 1/2p at full back - I suspect him of being 100% Hobbit

A Hobbit
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Ex Scotland captain
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Seymours youtube highlights 18mins of running in intercepts and catching the odd high ball, I got bored after 3 mins!!

George North "probably the best player on tour" some aussie bloke about the 21 yearold test lion

Pretty boys 15

Henson
Henson
Henson
Henson
Henson
Cips
Henson
Parisse
Henson
Henson
Henson
Henson
Henson
Hibbards Hair
Henson

LOL

And the referee has to be.....the man....the dreamboat....
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*Swoons*