[Closed] Rugby thread 2016/2017

[quote=Twodogs ]

Very very good reffing from Barnes for that last passage.

Wonder if Ireland will run out of puff like they did v wales?

Thought it was Martyn Williams who said that?

Conscious that the armchair lawyers in the commentary box would be making up laws on the hoof no doubt

I don't understand how itoje gets away with so much law breaking at the breakdown

England need to get in for half time with no more damage. I still think the 'finishers' can turn around a single try deficit, but the lack of accuracy of England is worrying me.

It was attributed to Moore on the text feed

Ok. I bet Williams was thinking it too 🙂

I don't understand how[s] itoje [/s] McCaw gets away with so much law breaking at the breakdown

Mark of a good wing forward innit.

I doubt that Ireland can keep this up but I live in hope. Against Wales and Scotland we had one good half in each match. I hope we can have two today! At least the pack have showed up today

Will be fascinating to see if Itoje still acts the hard man in NZ because he is certainly going to be targetted by a number of provincial kiwis. He will be a key player for the Lions but he does need to wind his neck in...
Ireland backrow is well on top three locks and 1 flanker not working for England so far.

Mark of a good wing forward innit.

He is a great lock but currently getting his arse handed to him by the Irish backrow

Itoje is committing high tackles and late hits. Not McCaws way - having aid that I don't think any of them malicious but another ref another day - could have had 3 yellows

I don't know if I want Ireland to win or not - If they do Scotland end up 4th which is poor return for winning 3 games.

FFS why is everything that itv do so carp. You can't even pause their player when called for a family dinner, came back to find I've missed the first half.

Can anyone explain why Itoje has 6 on his back but is packing down in the second row but Lawes has 5 on his back but packs down as a flanker?

To annoy you.

Is Dilly Dally actually blind?

As blinds as the tmo!

Can anyone explain why Itoje has 6 on his back but is packing down in the second row but Lawes has 5 on his back but packs down as a flanker?

Even more odd when you note the Itoje defends narrower than Lawes too.

Has it finished 13-9? Trying to stream but only getting stills 🙁

No - still a bit to go.

England to win this now.

Git! Blimey there is! 4 mins? I take that back 😉

Eddie Jones off to teach a geography lesson?

knock on - couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke

Bollocks.

England were shit. Ford's 'defence' is a liability in tight games. Youngs passing was also awful. What a balls up.

Well well well.

Well played Ireland. Does that make Scotland the moral victors of the 6N? We beat Ireland who beat England who are the top team. so Scotland must be the best? 😉

Its a pity for Scotland that Ireland and France won 'cos it makes our best 6N for a decade look not so good. Ruddy points difference 🙁

A damn fine championship tho all in all

3 ropey games TBH, was hoping for better. Not too many making a really positive case for t'Lions. O'Mahony excepted.

Stoner plus 1 - Itoje! He's a good player he doesn't need to be that dirty. Billy V a bit dubious a couple of times too.

Not watched it, is it worth it?

Yes if your Irish

What an awful day of Rugby! 3 dire games! Well played Ireland....better in every single aspect of the game today. Shame that we had 3 crap games today, as the championship has been amazing as a whole.

First half score flattered England. Second half flattered Ireland, but fair dues to them to come back into it in the last quarter. They finished the better side.

Congrats to England on the championship - clearly the best side in the competition.

NOt really duckman. England looked toothless, Ireland denied them time and space to do anything. Hardly a festival of flowing rugby.

No TJ it doesn't work like that. Ireland are now the king of 19, you know like conkers!

I thought the Irish youngsters did very well especially Furlong, Henderson, Marmion, Henshaw and Ringrose. Also mention for Like McGrath for the kick to the corner in the 77th minute.

But POM was best player on the park.

Does that make Scotland the moral victors of the 6N? We beat Ireland who beat England who are the top team. so Scotland must be the best?

And Ireland beat NZ. Makes Scotland World Champs surely!!

Is that the first time Maro Itoje has lost an international match?

LOL@ blindmelon and AA

Ireland destroyed our lineout, which was almost 100% in the tournament. We dropped everything, Ireland adapted better to greasy conditions.

What was wrong with Young's 1 handed tackle near the end?

It was Care, slapped the ball out of the 9's hand..classed as intentional knock on.

Has Gordon D'arcy turned into Alvin Stardust?

Gonna make Lions selection interesting. Some front runners have fallen away, some folk really put their hands up

Not many folk with a seat on the plane booked I would say

HOgg, Best, Sexton, Webb about the only ones who stand out above their peers

Soooooo

Hogg
Daley
Joseph
Ringrose
North
Faz
Webb
Stander
Warburton
?POM??
Itoje
Launbury
Furlong
Best
Vunipola

MGrath
Owens
Cole
Lawes
Tipuric
Murray
Sexton
Loopy Liam

Just take the green machine players out and make it the British Lions again. That'll do me.

Hogg
Daley
[s]Joseph[/s]Dunbar
Ringrose
[s]North[/s] Seymour
[s]Faz[/s] Sexton
Webb
Stander
Warburton
?POM??
[s]Itoje[/s] Ickle Jonny/ Lawes / toner / Robshaw / AWJ
Launchbury
Furlong
Best
Vunipola

I'd like to find space for Hamish Watson at 7. The only true 7 playing in the NH. Had a cracking series but up against a lot of good back rows

I wouldn't have Farrell on the plane. He showed today what I always say about him - too slow especially between the ears

I think Dunbar has had a cracking series. IIRC before today he had the most turnovers of any player in the 6N and bar the debacle against England has been good in attack and defence. Could he play with ringrose?

Itoje I thought both a potential penalty magnet and ineffective today another day another ref he could have had 3 yellows and he was blown away. todays performance puts him down the pecking order and so many good locks out there

Ickle jonny has dropped from his usual high standards the last two weeks.

Sexton is the only 10 to look like a lion. I know we need another for the lions but who?

I shall have a good hunt around the stats and see what gems I can find

Swap a fully fit Billy V for POM and swap him and Stander position wise and I think that you've got it a_a.

Dunbar hasn't been great for much of what I've seen TJ. Today's performance doesn't really count....he'll be playing AB's away not Italy at home if he's on the Lions tour (which I can't really see...I'll be amazed if he's in the match day squad!)

Warburton will be captain yeah? If not then I guess Best? He was great today.

Edit just seen the suggestion of Robshaw at lock...I'm his biggest fan, but he's no second row 😯

I think Itoje has just showed up outside the Irish dressing room to tackle Sexton.

Nah, he was just there to congratulate him on finishing as runner up in the six nations this year.

Miaow.

The only true 7 playing in the NH

Wales have at least 4 and at least 2 are better than Watson!!

Swap a fully fit Billy V for POM and swap him and Stander position wise and I think that you've got it a_a.

Fair point but Stander was much better than Vunipola today and that was his first start wasnt it?

Thought Sexton was quite poor today, kicked badly.

Sexton's not going.
Not with you bunch of dirty cheating cheapshot merchants.
Summer off.
Murray too now.

The only Irish you can have are those with a British grandmother or three years residency in Englandshire.
So Ben O'teo and Tommy Bowe then.

Tom - Dunbar has been pretty good and apart from Ringrose and Joseph in patches who has? His defensive work ( apart from against England and it was at least as much Huw JOnes fault) He gets an average of two turnovers a game and is as good a bosher as Roberts with better hands than most around

Didnae mean Robshaw at lock. Mistake

No AA - Wales do not have anyone with his ability to link and his speed. They are all 6.5s really anyway are they not?

And Tommy Bowes injured too.

And Tommy Bowes injured too.

Absolutely. Keep him off the plane.

Agreed it's not been a good showing for the centre's this 6n's! Time to persuade Slammin Sam to change his plans for the summer? Farrell senior is a coach afterall 😆

Agree re Stander a_a.....however I think that Billy V is one of very few players that probably had a guaranteed place prior to this tournament given the form he was in when fit.

Just take the green machine players out and make it the British Lions again. That'll do me.

Does that mean Best can go? 😉

Hovis and Warburton are proper 7's imo. ....and a_a made a great point about the game moving away from 'proper' 7's earlier in the thread too.

Does that mean Best can go?

😀

If the orangemen really want to go, let them. But if they come back injured, their lodge can pay the expenses. 🙂

As I said - I'd like to find a place for him but no way is he written in and probably won't go. Its his pace that makes him effective and we will need pace against NZ. Given two players of similar quality I'd always pick the faster one. Back row is another area like lock that there are plenty of good candidates.

Plenty of money now thanks to RHI scheme.

Hogg
Daly
JJ
Henshaw
North
Sexton
Murray
Stander
Warbs
POM
lawes
Launchbury
Furlong
Best
Vunipola

On a totally different subject, what is the general feeling in Scotland of Cotter going and Townsend coming in?

I know that Townsend is doing really well at Glasgow, but I really think that the job that Cotter has done at Scotland is absolutely astounding. A few years back Scotland were on a par with Italy and couldn't find the try line if you painted a huge white line there to help them find it. Now....should have been a WC semi finalist.....scored 14 tries this year and were unlucky to finish 4th not 2nd.

Very mixed feelings about Cotter. He has been by far the best coach we have had in the pro era and as you say done a great job with Scotland - although this is also the best group of players we have had since 1990 so that did make it easier for him but he ( unlike previous guys) has got selection right, got the tactic right for the player we have and got them playing freely and set up to attack not defend.

So we sorry to see him go. a lot of folk feel the SRU shafted him but we don't know everything that has gone on. Townsend it appears might have said - "make me Scotland coach or I'm going to France" but then Townsend has taken a Glasgow team that were midtable and made them into championship contenders. We were angry that Lineen was shafted at Glasgow but it proved to be a good decision so we are also hopeful this will be. Jury is out.
Personally I'd have kept Cotter till after the next WC and told Townsend to get more experience in France or England

Isn't Townsend cheaper than Vern to employ?

Rankings after the 6N ( according to a geek on a rugby forum)
1 NEW ZEALAND 94.78
2 ENGLAND 89.53
3 AUSTRALIA 86.35
4 IRELAND 84.66
5 SCOTLAND 82.18
6 FRANCE 82.00
7 SOUTH AFRICA 81.79
8 WALES 81.36
9 ARGENTINA 79.91
10 FIJI 76.46
11 JAPAN 74.23
12 GEORGIA 74.14
13 TONGA 71.94
14 SAMOA 71.25
15 ITALY 71.17
These are the rankings the WC draw will be done from I think - So Ireland in the top group of seeds, Scotland in the second and Wales breathe a sigh of relief just keeping in the second tier

I for one am very sad to see Cotter leave. He has completely changed our game, attitude and mentality.

We now look like a team that can win games ....and by scoring tries. we will always have a bad day - like 2 weeks ago as our depth is still not great in some positions.

Townsend is a good coach who likes to play positively as seen at Glasgow but this is a step up. I'd have liked Cotter to stay a couple more years with Townsend as assistant.

We have had a decent 6N and could have won 4 games. Who'd have thought that 2 years ago?

Interesting stuff tj....hopefully Townsend continues to push Scotland on....the championship is a much better thing with you guys back in some form.

As for Italy, last year was their worst ever performance points difference wise....until this year, when they are -151 from 5 games....ie a 30 point loss per game! Look at their ranking too! The case for Georgia is getting stronger.....

I have done a fair amount of thinking about promotion and relegation ( cos Scotland could be affected)

I think IRB should insist that all the 6N terms play Georgia every second year in the AIs so we can actually see if they are good enough. then once ( like Italy did) they start winning some games then they are good enough

Then have a playoff between the bottom of the 6N against the top of 6N level two that Georgia play in. I think automatic relegation would be wrong and could just led to teams bouncing up and then down again but if Italy ( or Scotland) can't beat Georgia in a playoff then do they really deserve to be in the top tier?

Yeah I'd agree with that TJ.....apparently Italy are quite reluctant to play Georgia...I wonder why?!

Call me bigoted or whatever, but for me it just wouldn't be the 6 nations if Scotland weren't in it...or any of the other home nations for that matter. Not sure what the answer is, but it is getting a bit daft really with Italy. God help them when Parisse retires, he's the only thing that they actually bring to the tournament really.

Wales do not have anyone with his ability to link and his speed. They are all 6.5s really anyway are they not?

Ermm...do you even watch rugby?
Tipuric lacking in speed or linking play and being more of a 6.5...ffs Just because Warburton has played 6 this season doesnt mean he isnt a proper 7.

Lacks pace

Cant link play

Can't really complain about the result today; Ireland were better in every facet of the game. We were lucky not to have been pinged / carded for late tackles etc.

When Ireland play like that, they must be bloody horrible to play against; they suffocate the opposition and defend like beasts. If you don't have the hall yi can't do much as we showed. We were dicked at the breakdown today. Hope Underhill lives up to his promise!

Will be interesting to see if Hartley's days are numbered now; he's been subbed early this tournament and George is the better hooker.

This was Itoje's first international loss which is a pretty good statistic. He needs to cut out the hard man act though, and is much more effective at lock.

Tips is good and had a decent game today but has not been at his best this 6N. Watson is faster than most backs. Faster than either of them I'd bet.

I'll have a dig around the 6N stats later to have a comparison.

Tom B - Member
Hovis and Warburton are proper 7's imo

In the same way that Andrew and Freddie Flintoff are great cricketers?

Can't really complain about the result today; Ireland were better in every facet of the game.

No they werent - England were shit but...

... they suffocate the opposition

Very negative rugby, obviously a tactic made for a very dull game. Enlgand need to learn to counter against this but if I was Irish I wouldnt feel particulalry proud about the nature of that win. Well done for how the scoresheet looks anyway.

^ masterful

Very negative rugby, obviously a tactic made for a very dull game. Enlgand need to learn to counter against this but if I was Irish I wouldnt feel particulalry proud about the nature of that win. Well done for how the scoresheet looks anyway.

😆

Suffocating a team is a perfectly legitimate tactic. If I was Irish I would be very proud. England looked absolutely toothless today and the problem IMO lies at 10 and 12. Deny them time and space and England have nothing to offer.

AA - Wales / Scotland game. Watson was a sub but IIRC came on fairly early at 25 mis so only had 55 mins to play

Watson 2 passes 5 runs 16m 2 defenders beaten
Tips 4 passes 4 runs 6m no defenders beaten

Watson 8 tackles 1 missed out of 107
tips 17 tackles 2 missed out of 148

No state for turnovers on espn which is the critical one but Wales turned the ball over 17 times, scotland 9. dunno who made the turnovers. any other source of stats? this is off espn scrum.com

In the commentry Watson makes several turnovers on the ground but its not at all clear how many each of them makes

so on that Watson was better in attack but Tips in defense and Watson made more turnovers but that is not definate

Deny them time and space and England have nothing to offer.

True but deny any team time and space and they'll have nothing to offer.

Ireland won the game fair and square and after England's performance last week they'd have been foolish to try and play otherwise.

Still, when EJ took charge if we'd known that we wouldn't lose until now - all England fans would've been delighted.

I think 9, 10 and 12 are issues. EJ has never looked beyond Youngs/Care who can both go AWOL when the pressure is on. If Ford is the answer at 10 he needs someone better at 12. If Farrell is the answer at 10 then why hasn't he played there?

If England learn from this loss then it's a good loss.

IMO as well as 10/12 not being able to cope with poor ball and without an armchair ride the other issue seems to be brains or lack of them and inflexibility ie - no plan B

England might well have been shit but you can only play what's in front of you.

Very negative rugby, obviously a tactic made for a very dull game. Enlgand need to learn to counter against this but if I was Irish I wouldnt feel particulalry proud about the nature of that win.

Negative rugby to you, winning rugby to me. Sure it wasn't putting 40 points on the All Blacks in the sun but you play to win and that's what happened.

I didn't think it was dull at all, but then I'm a forward and love seeing great set piece ball for Ireland. We won every single facet of the game and I'm very pleased we put in an 80minute performance.

I couldn't be more proud of the Irish team, to win against the odds with a number of first choice players unavailable and guys on the bench making debuts, there is every reason to be proud. Also it bodes well going forward as the number of young players coming through is very exciting.

It was far from dull; I was on the edge of my seat the entire match.

Just says by England we're shit fails to recognise who well Ireland did at keeping the ball is difficult conditions. It was greasey yet they strung passes together and kicked and key stages to put us under pressure. Their line out also put huge pressure on us.

TJ - most 10 and 12 combos struggle with no space. Russell looked pretty ropey last week when starved of space and started to implode (e.g. that pass in his one 22 that Joseph nearly picked off).