http://www.royalmail.com/delivery-to-neighbour
FCOL can somebody please explain why I should have to inform Royal Mail that I wish to opt out of this?
Why should the onus be on me, the customer? Surely the service provider is providing a SERVICE rather than dictating to its customers what it's going to do?
Ann Summers packages are quite discrete, no need to worry. 😯
Sorry... I feel the need to apologise straight away.... 🙂
Yes I know, it's the drugs I'm worried about. 😉
Agreed. Apparently there was a survey.
I'd far rather have stuff left at the sorting office and if postie starts waking me up after nights with stuff for the neighbours there'll be bother!
I don't know what I think about this. I've ranted before about the whole RM 'Let's try to deliver packages to people while they are out at work' thing and got nowhere. I think the answer is for them to be able to deliver to people when they are in, but that means someone at RM actually caring about the service they provide. Maybe some kind of designated neighbourhood drop off will work...
Nobody asked me.
Urban people... you live in the past! My postie (James, used to go out with my mates sister), will shove stuff in the garage, or get a neighbour if it needs a sig. Most courier companies already leave stuff with neighbours round here. probably fed up with angry calls from people who've been told to drive into Leeds to collect. Opt out is fine, choose through your own free will to be denied your brand new shiney things!
So.
They had an idea which they thought was a good one.
They tested it out and it seemed to work.
Where's the problem?
Seems like a brilliant idea to me!
Do you not like your neighbours or don't they like you? 😉
Out regular postie puts stuff in a hidey hole and leaves us a card. Bigger stuff often ends up next door anyway. What's not to like?
I think the answer is for them to be able to deliver to people when they are in,
Lets have alook at this from a practical point of view shall we?
I assume by "when they are in" you mean evenings. So that gives us what? 4 hours? 6-10pm? So they have to do the same amount of work in half the time, as a full shift will be 8 hours I imagine. So they need to double the amount of staff, who all need a vehicle of some sort, and because it's evening work, they need paying time and a half minimum.
So when your postage price doubles overnight, you'll be quite happy, will you?
Or would it be easier to push next doors bell?
Not thought that through have you? 🙂
I'm thoroughly confused because this is exactly what happened in reality in at least 4 different houses over a period of 25+ year or so. Its only now that I read this that I understand why in the last 5 yrs or so that I have to go and pick stuff up so often, presumably someone changed/clarified the rules about 5 yrs ago so posties were no longer allowed to use their initiative. Almost all other couriers leave stuff in a safe place or with a neighbour. Not sure what the fuss is about.
Not sure what the fuss is about.
Me neither.
They have decided to chance their policy to help the customer receive there parcel faster, and without having to go to the depot or arrange a re delivery.
Some people don't like that idea, so they can opt out of the new system if they want to.
You really have to be looking for something to moan about to find fault with that.
Poly, yes indeed.
Some people, if you gave them £20, would complain that it wasn't two tenners.
[i]So when your postage price doubles overnight, you'll be quite happy, will you?[/i]
The alternative for me at the moment is to stay in for a day, ie spend a day off work waiting for a package that might come or might not, or accept that I'll be out and so the postie chap will have a wasted journey, and that I'll have to go and stand in a queue at the post office for between 5 minutes and an hour.
So, essentially I'd like to get the service I'm paying for, which at present is to have a package or parcel delivered to my house, when I'm in to recieve it.
The service at present is shit. If I have to pay more for postage I will, provided I get a decent service that meets my needs rather than that of the Post.
After they couldn't deliver a parcel, Hermes (the courier) left a card asking us what we'd like to do. We phoned the number on the card and confirmed that we wanted the parcel left at their depot, and we'd collect the next day.
Mr Toast went there, and the parcel wasn't there. The woman phoned the driver, and he admitted he'd forgotten that he was supposed to be taking it to the depot and instead delivered it to a neighbour... but he couldn't remember which one. He hadn't left a card or anything, and he said he thought "It was one of the houses opposite".
The pillock then tried to claim that he'd phoned our house, and that 'a woman' had said that it was OK to leave it with a neighbour, which was a big fib.
Fortunately most of our neighbours are really nice, and Mr Toast got his parcel, but no thanks to the couriers.
If the Royal Mail are going ahead with this, they really need to confirm that a) people are fine with stuff being left with their neighbours, and b) that people are fine with their neighbour's post being left with them, rather than just assuming that it's OK by default.
basically if I'm asked to leave packets with a neighbour then I will. If not then item will be returned to office.
Never knocked other peoples doors on the off chance they would take an item and not starting now.
Same as notes on doors " please leave packets number whatever three streets back". Not happening.
If I can not get answer at address item goes back to sorting office. It might sound like being a pain to go and collect, but it's safe and everyone knows where it is. Which I think is most important.
I live in fairly central London. This has happened for us for a while anyway, so I think it sounds like an excellent idea.
Theres also the question of naughty neighbours denying ever recieving stuff, then who pays for a replacement, as its been delivered and possibly signed for by a mr M mouse etc.
and what training will the posties have to decide that a neighbour is trustworthy or even on speaking terms with the the residents of the address the parcel is for.
I think this is an excellent idea. Hate getting a little red slip and then finding i have to stand in a massive line at the sorting office which is ten miles away.
Well done Royal Mail for taking some initiative (for once)
What i want to know is, do posties actually have the package on them when they visit or do they just leave the package at the depot and take a stack of those little red cards with them?
I always have to go to the depot to pick up anything larger than an envelope..
Muddydwarf. I've always had item on me, same as every postie in our office.
If it's too big for me to carry it's put on a van duty.
muddydwarf - Member
What i want to know is, do posties actually have the package on them when they visit or do they just leave the package at the depot and take a stack of those little red cards with them?
I always have to go to the depot to pick up anything larger than an envelope..
Mine doesn't, caught him a couple of times posting the docket without ringing the bell.
Muddy, you missed;
Leave a trail of red rubber bands for miles around, and deliberately refuse to close any gate behind them
😉
The alternative for me at the moment is to stay in for a day, ie spend a day off work waiting for a package that might come or might not, or accept that I'll be out and so the postie chap will have a wasted journey, and that I'll have to go and stand in a queue at the post office for between 5 minutes and an hour.
Welcome to my world. You think it's only you that has to do that? 5 mins in a queue? My heart bleeds for you. Phhhhhh
Or, as has been quite successful, apparently, let them leave it next door ...... 🙂
* W H O O S H *
You're all missing the point!
A service provider should ask customers to opt in, if they so wish, rather than tell customers that they have to tell the service provider (Royal Mail) if they want to opt out.
Customer Service FAIL!
MrsToast gets it, cos she's a woman. 🙂 😉
MrsToast gets it, cos she's a woman.
[b][i][u]SEXIST![/u][/i][/b]
😉
Our postie mostly just leaves stuff in the porch. We are also friendly with our neighbours and will happily take in parcels for each other.
I think it's fair to say that the STW forum isn't where I'd come to find the most representative sample of friendly, good-natured, sociable individuals so it's perhaps no surprise that some on here are having issues with the whole concept.
I just have stuff delivered to work. /problem.
My sorting office is 3 minutes walk from my door, and I hardly ever have to queue, but I'd still rather pop next door and collect my parcel.
Opting in wouldn't work as people 'wouldn't get round to it' and how would the postie know who had and hadn't. Opting out means those that really have an opinion can opt out and get their sticker, the post office saves costs and the majority of people would benefit.
If you work nights etc they will send you a sticker stating you don't want to receive other peoples parcels...simple.
What royal mail really need to do is to allow items to be held at the sorting office rather than attempting delivery at all. i.e. by allowing you to get items sent to JOE BLOGS C/O DORCHESTER SORTING OFFICE, the postie would then just slip a red card through the door stating x items are waiting for you to collect. Result is they don't end up carting parcels about the town and save money, and don't make me feel guilty for blocking up my neighbours hallway with a huge 'one size fits all' CRC box containing a handlebar.
you can get your parcels delivered to the local post office counter, usually closed saturday afternoon, evenings and for an hour at diner time along with wednesday afternoon.
the sooner the supermarkets get the contract for parcels from royal fail mail the better.
A service provider should ask customers to opt in, if they so wish, rather than tell customers that they have to tell the service provider (Royal Mail) if they want to opt out.
Large company in Informing Customers of a change in Policy shocker 🙄
Whatever Next.
No its how I always understood it worked (the only "new" stuff here would be the stickers saying don't). Never had a problem getting stuff from neighbours or taking it for them. In fact I consider it a basic bit of friendly community spirit.CG- You're all missing the point!
I'd sooner have stuff left with the neighbour than the normal approach our posties use, which I think could be called "deranged concealment". Highlights including the time they decided to hide a package in the wheelie bin, on bin day. Well played. And the time they hid a package behind the little tree in the front garden, but didn't tell us, which led to a £150 graphics card sitting in the rain for 2 weeks. And most recently, one stuffed into a hole in the hedge, which took 10 minutes to find because our hedge is horrible, and made mostly of holes.
We've had a notice for about 10 years now in our front door's glass panel asking for deliveries to be sent 2 doors up if we're not in - works fine
nealglover - Member"A service provider should ask customers to opt in, if they so wish, rather than tell customers that they have to tell the service provider (Royal Mail) if they want to opt out."
[b]Large company in Informing Customers of a change in Policy shocker 🙄
Whatever Next.[/b]
Why are you pretending that 'informing customers of a change in policy' is the issue which C_G has ?
C_G could not have made it clearer that it's the fact that customers will have to opt out which bothers her.
STW user deliberately and pointlessly misrepresents another forum user shocker 🙄
I think they're really only making explicit a policy which has been informally in place for years - certainly has for us.
Some couriers are a bit dim, though - several times when shipping stuff out a customer has complained that they haven't received an order - when I track it it shows as delivered, chase it and the driver says he left it in a safe place. He did - the wheelie bin.
No-one's lost their order to the binmen yet, but there have been some close shaves 🙂
Seems like what happens in real life.
The arduous process of opting out (fill in form stick on letter box) is there to get round the fact that the majority of the population is so apathetic asking for people to join a scheme is pointless. Only 65% of the population voted at the last election as a comparison. Perhaps the RM have a plan that could be rolled out further. All ballot papers are assigned to BNP unless you go and change it.
Bit of a shame there is no web form or that the stickers don't seem available from the post office (you could get on while picking up another parcel if you can ever get there on time).
It does seem like an much better plan than paying for delivery then having to go collect it. It might even mean that they take the post out for delivery rather than just the sorry you were out cards.
CG - you simply need to think more flexibly. Given the default in many places is already to have parcels left with neighbours if you're not in (it might work like that here, but it's so safe they tend to just leave parcels in full view on the doorstep), then clearly it's only right to continue that as the default option, or in other words opting out of having your parcels taken to the depot. If you want to have your parcels taken back to the depot instead then you have to opt in to that.
Basically the current Royal Mail & Parcel Force model is not making money - so this is a way for them to continue their service and cut costs rather than crazy hikes in price.
Basically the current Royal Mail & Parcel Force model is not making money
Royal Mail is making nearly a £1 million profit everyday.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/8905160/Royal-Mail-makes-1-million-a-day-ahead-of-possible-big-increase-in-price-of-stamps.html ]Royal Mail makes £1 million a day ahead of possible big increase in price of stamps[/url]
And Parcelforce seem to be doing OK.
[url= http://www.ipc.be/en/Media/News/General%20news/Parcelforce%20Worldwide%20Trading%20Statement.aspx ]Parcelforce Worldwide Trading Statement[/url]
[i]" Parcelforce Worldwide’s overall growth has outpaced its key rivals. Profits have trebled over the past four years"[/i]
What royal mail really need to do is to allow items to be held at the sorting office rather than attempting delivery at all. i.e. by allowing you to get items sent to JOE BLOGS C/O DORCHESTER SORTING OFFICE, the postie would then just slip a red card through the door stating x items are waiting for you to collect
Erm, and how would the postie do that if he hasn't got your address. Sure mine hasn't memorised the few thousand names on his walk...
Actually, the whole idea of leaving with neighbours is exactly the opposite of what you want - they don't want thousands of parcels at the office that someone has to handle for collection. Cheaper that way for them.
the sooner the supermarkets get the contract for parcels from royal fail mail the better.
What, would that be the ASDA just round the corner, or the Tescos 10 miles away?
Supermarkets will never do this. It'll take up too much valuable space that they won't be able to profit from. Even taking into account the "I'm picking up a parcel from Lidl, I'll just get a pint of milk while I'm here" scenario.
Amazon are going to deliver to local stores.
A kiosk at my local supermarket would be ideal. Could just pop in and pick up aprcels after the shop. They are open at sensible hours as well so I could go after work at my convenience.
Wiggle already use a different type of return service. I just dropped my parcel off at the local corner shop (again open early till late). If they coudl arrange to have it delivered there and me pick it up as well that would be grand.
Royal mail just about works for me at the minute. I can get to the sorting office on the way to work or just about get to the post office after work. Would be nice if they could do an evening delivery service though or just leave it at the depot so it doesn't take 48hours before I can go and get it.
Didn't quite understand why it took them so long to deliver over the entire day to residentail addresses. I don't care whether he comes at 9.30 or 4.30 as I'm not in at either time.
Pain in the ass for us Posties walk up to door knock no ones in, trys next door neighbour no ones in, walks to the other neighbour who is in and hands over package.Then walks back to the orginal address and writes out a card to say we have left it with neighbour B.
We are stretched already with the parcels and this is only going to heap more pressure on the Postie!!
Idea for all you whingers out there when we leave a sorry you could not be arsed to be in card how about a secure storage container with the padlock left open so we can deposit the items then secure save everybody the hassle suggested to a few of my customers and it works well.
Do i have to opt out to opt in then?
My options for opting are compromised, if i opt in does that mean i opt out or vice versa
What happens if i nail my letterbox shut is that a silent opt in or an aggresive opt out
Thats it i am out !
breatheeasy - Memberthe sooner the supermarkets get the contract for parcels from royal fail mail the better.
What, would that be the ASDA just round the corner, or the Tescos 10 miles away?
Supermarkets will never do this. It'll take up too much valuable space that they won't be able to profit from. Even taking into account the "I'm picking up a parcel from Lidl, I'll just get a pint of milk while I'm here" scenario.
But as they did with a few couriers , a few years ago at petrol stations install large lockers outside so that peeps can pick up their parcels when they like witha key card.
OR CUSTOMERS CAN HAVE A LARGE LOCKER OUTSIDE THEIR HOUSE , LEFT OPENAND WHEN A PARCEL ARIVES, THE POSTIE JUST LOCKS IT DOWN
We are stretched already with the parcels and this is only going to heap more pressure on the Postie!!
Do you actually take them out?? I've lived in a few places where the cards just get taken.
Total bollocks! 😕
You might not do it, but my old postman did this so often I ended up making a complaint about him. If you're in and waiting for something important and a card gets put through your door it gets pretty irritating quite quickly!
I've caught our local postie delivering a card to my door without even knocking, on opening the door he looked very shocked and had no explanation as to where my parcel was. It turned up an hour later.
I'm not impressed at having to opt out, without being told. I don't want my parcels being given tk neighbours for 2 reasons...
1 - I don't get on with my immediate neighbour and don't want them knowing what I've bought.
2 - I've had this in the past and neighbours have gone away on holiday leaving me no access tk my post. If it just went back to where I know its safe I could collect when I got chance.
More often than not these days I get stuff sent to work, its easier in my case.
Total bollocks!
Really - next day deliveries and gettting the sorry you were out card without knocking. Open door ask for parcel - er must have been yesterdays er er bye
repeatedly - I never got one parcel at that house.
once we moved to the country again just left with neighbours on in the shed. Much better.
For postierich the issue may be the amount to carry but for the consumer it's getting the service we paid for - which was delivery to our door. If there was a cheaper option for delivery to hub then text to confirm and opening hours long enough for those of us who work 8-5 to collect then I would have taken it.
Really struggling to see the issue here especially after reading the actual RM link in the OP.
I would also hesitate to frame any of this in the context of the RM being a profitable company. Since 2008 revenues have trended between £9.2 and £9.6bn operating profit has been very volatile and cash flow negative in three of the last five years. In FY12, revenues were up, op profit was positive (£211m) as was cash flow.....but crucially 2012 results excluded pension payments which in 2011 totalled £292m. You can take you own view on how the numbers are being "presented" in the run up to privatisation (its all here on their website) but you have to love a national accounting system that transfers the assets to the Government but not the liabilities. How many businesses can run like that!
RM still runs on very poor operating margins (absolute and relative) and it's core business - delivering parcels to the UK - remains loss making. I don't know, but that may give some context to these proposals. We must be lucky as we have excellent postman who already uses his discretion and does a brilliant job.
When my best mate started as a postie he said he, in youthful ignorance/laziness, didn't take out parcels and just the red cards. Got copped pretty quickly by someone he 'thought' wouldn't be in so he's never done it since.
Problem with the Wiggle returns at local shops is you know someone is going to collect the return parcels once a day. And, to be fair, there isn't many of them normally. Once you start getting to levels of the Royal Mail and people not being able to collect them due to working hours until the weekend, you'd have a massive pile taking over the whole shop, so it'd sharp get unworkable.
I'm not impressed at having to opt out, without being told.
so you didn't read the bit where they were going to tell everyone in a letter about the plan and explain how you could opt out then
I'm not impressed at having to opt out, without being told. I don't want my parcels being given tk neighbours for 2 reasons...
1 - I don't get on with my immediate neighbour and don't want them knowing what I've bought.
2 - I've had this in the past and neighbours have gone away on holiday leaving me no access tk my post. If it just went back to where I know its safe I could collect when I got chance.
Firstly, you will be told. By letter.
Secondly, when you are told, by letter, you can opt out.
(non) problem solved.
Nice to have some input from a real postperson namely postierich. 🙂 I guess there wasn't any consultation involving posties? Do take your point though, more work really.
Must confess to not having thought about the whole subject, it was the execution that hacked me off and most of you completely failed to understand my point. 🙄
Anyway, notwithstanding the rather dubious packages arriving randomly at C_G Towers, I am happy to visit the Sorting Office with its smiley and helpful staff.
Oh yes, a neighbour took in a parcel from Wiggle. I spotted a glint so felt it was necessary to explain that Wiggle were a cycling retailer. Not sure whether I was believed!
another postie here...
we delivered a door to door item explaining all of the information regarding the new service. i'm guessing that it was another management idea tested out on a computer! there wasnt any conultation with us posties and as postierich pointed out it will be more work for us. think about it.... having to knock at your door for a parcle then walking up to another house and knocking, when they are not in having to then walk back write the card out and post it. on my delivery (which is a paired delivery working out of a van to over 1200 houses)that wouldnt be practical.
to all those having a moan....yes there are some crappy postmen out there but the majority of us are doing the job properly and are having to cope with increaingly large deliveris and an increaseing ammount of parcles
A service provider should ask customers to opt in, if they so wish, rather than tell customers that they have to tell the service provider (Royal Mail) if they want to opt out.
I've not missed the point at all. I simply disagree. I think they are right to do it this way, and make official what already happens anyway.
so you didn't read the bit where they were going to tell everyone in a letter about the plan and explain how you could opt out then
Correct. I skim-read it and gave a knee jerk reaction. Apologies. Will read harder next time!
[i]Erm, and how would the postie do that if he hasn't got your address. Sure mine hasn't memorised the few thousand names on his walk...[/i]
Well, obviously after putting 'JOE BLOGGS C/O DORCHESTER SORTING OFFICE' you would follow on with your normal address, the packages would just be filtered out when the person who stacks them into individual rounds. It wouldn't necessarily cost money, there would less strain on the posties (especially considering almost every parcel held for collection would be a failed delivery) and assuming the sorting office had space (my local one is 50% occupied and the other 50% is completely dis-used) it would only require a second person for Saturday morning to keep up with the queue. They could even add a charge 50p per collection although at the moment the sorting offices don't 'do' cash so this could be a stumbling block.
I was expecting a package the other day, so I left a note at the door, with a key for the stair cupboard. This system has worked well before, couriers seem to grasp it. Numpty Royal Mail guy shoves a card through my door, so he has to take the parcel back, and I have to collect it.
And I live downstairs from a raging psychopath, who eats nails for his dinner. Not really wanting to leave a note on my door "please don't leave my parcels with the nutter upstairs".
And I live downstairs from a raging psychopath, who eats nails for his dinner. Not really wanting to leave a note on my door "please don't leave my parcels with the nutter upstairs".
So you can choose to "opt out" then ?
If only they had a localised presence where parcels and mail that requires a signature could be collected from, some kind of office for the post. Radical I know but it might just work.
Yes I have ordered my Opt-out sticker. Lets hope it doesn't incite nutter face to hammer on my door "do you no trust me to take your parcels then ?".
Might be easier to move. It's a nice neighbourhood tho apart from him.