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One of my local routes crosses two golf courses - basically the BW runs down the side of a couple of holes and the driving range. Both have warning signs saying to beware of flying balls and that use of these paths is (a) at own risk and (b) no liability on golf club if hit by golf ball.
Is that right - is it the sole responsibility of the BW user to avoid the flying golf balls. Surely there must be some responsibility on the golfers to do their thing safely eg wait to play shots in BW users close by, shout fore etc for wayward shots. I can see that there needs to be a bit of common sense on both sides, but one of the golf clubs is not exactly overly amenable to give and take.
What do we think?
No one plays golf any more, they are all out on their road bikes.
There's a route i avoid because it crosses a golf course, partly because it doesn't link up very well, but also because there are some miserable gets who'll still drive the ball when bikers are passing nearby
Same here but having played the course at the one local to me there's a sign telling golfers to be cautious too. Can't see the issue you anyway, why take some respondility for your own well being.
Majority advise caution or give way to walker etc while they're crossing the course
It takes golfers about 4hrs 20mins to tee up a shot as it is, does it take you that length of time to cross the course?? 😆
As I said - I do think that there is a need for some shared responsibility but that isn't what the signs imply, and that is what annoys me. It's less of a problem on a bike as I can pass by pretty quickly - but not as easy for horse riders or walkers for that matter.
It may well be that there are similar signs warning the golfers - if so, fair enough.
The BWs are also really overgrown as well as the GCs seem to want to discourage users generally - there is ongoing friction with dog walkers and one of the GCs that I know about. But that is something where the rules are clear and the council can intervene if neessary.
IANAL but I think the individual golfer will be liable if they hit and injure you. Golfers take out insurance specifically for this eventuality.
So in the sign put up by the golf club statement a) is false, both the golf club and the golfers have a responsibility to take reasonable steps to ensure your safety and b) is wrong, if they are negligent they can be liable regardless of what a sign says.
But just because you get hit by a ball it doesn't mean the club did anything wrong. Accidents happen.
Most golfers can barely hit the fairway, never mind a moving target.
Definitely wrong on this - there's case law with a highway user being hit by a golf ball and compensation being awarded, because it was known that balls had repeatedly landed there (there is also caselaw on cricket balls, that went the other way because in that case injury was less foreseeable)
But just because you get hit by a ball it doesn't mean the club did anything wrong. Accidents happen
The landowner owes any highway/PROW user a clear duty of care to protect them from incidents/accidents that were reasonably forseeable - The fact that they've gone so far as to put up a sign says to me that they consider the risk significant, and as such would be negligent in not taking steps to mitigate risk.
I'd also comment that a landowner who erects a signs or notices which discourages public use of a highway, as this is clearly designed to do, is committing an offence, and on that basis you should report it to your local council PROW officer.
*rubs hands together*
Of course wearing a helmet and high viz would mitigate substantially the risk in this case
*dives for cover in bunker*
I do a fair amount of training around the local golf course and it has a FP across the middle of it crossing a number of fairways. It is used regularly so the golfers are used to it. Over the years I have had one or two "discussions" with golfers who have deliberately tee'ed off as you are crossing the fairway but a bit of give and take and its not a problem.
In the evening I run around the whole thing and do intervals along the fairways etc 😀
To be fair I wouldn't cause any damage and I keep off the greens etc.
The fact that they've gone so far as to put up a sign says to me that they consider the risk significant, and as such would be negligent in not taking steps to mitigate risk.
Yep - But there is nothing in the OP to suggest that the golf course hasn't taken these steps.
For example there may be a sign instructing golfers not to tee off when people are on the path, they may have angled the tee so it's unlikely a ball will stray onto the ROW or other reasonable steps to stop people getting hit.
If they haven't done anything but put up a sign they may be liable. But they may have done loads of other stuff and therefore aren't.
In this instance the golfer may be liable. In which case they had better hope they had insurance.
I'm not sure how it would stand legally if it was a freak accident, i.e. both the golf club and the golfer had taken reasonable steps to ensure nobody got hit.
IIRC, if it was a freak accident, therefore not forseeable or the risk was negligent and/or reasonable steps at mitigation had already taken place, then there would be no liability
essentially the difference is between there being a 'real risk' to PROW users or just a 'slight possibility'
Edit - ah, found the quote
"It is not enough that there is a remote possibility that injury may occur: the question is, would a reasonable man anticipate it."
From the description that the OP gave, I'd say a reasonable man would anticipate it - eg. 'down the side of a couple of holes and the driving range' rather than just along the edge of the course where the odd errant shot might land.
Yeah I had this where I lived a while back. One guy deliberately teed as I was passing, ball landed near me and the guy was all smug until I picked it up and cycled to the pond and threw it in.
I have used MoD ranges in the past were a RoW has passed close to or through a Danger Area. Despite red flags and people put out to warn that the range is in use. If they decided to execute their RoW, we had to stop firing and let them pass.
I am 99% sure that if you are using the RoW, then the golfers have to stop, if their actions pose a risk, as that could be classed as obstructing a RoW.
Of course you could just stand between the tee and flag and you'd be pretty safe when I'm playing, its in the rough where you'd be the most danger that or the water hazard but why would you be swimming on a golf course!?!?
Just needs a bit of give & take. Most golfers would stop & wait for you to cross if they were on the tee & had seen you. You always get the odd one though!
Our club used to have insurance on behalf of all it's members for errant balls, etc but it got so expensive, they sent a circular to say it was down to all members to sort individual insurance. I'd wager there are a lot that still don't bother with it though....
I always thought golf courses are just turfed BMX tracks anyway. Ride on!
Have you jumped the bunkers yet? 😉
Do they not shout 'fore' or is that only in the movies?
One of my regular routes (bridleway) crosses a fairway. Before crossing I check to see if anyone's about to tee off. If they are then I wait until they're done before crossing. Seems to work for me 🙂
It amazes me that some people buy homes right next to golf fairways and then proceed to build tree houses / play areas for their kids right on their boundaries! Not only do they pay a premium for the privilege of living there, they offer their offspring as target practice!
Nice relaxing BBQ anyone? Right next to a load of over weight, sometimes drunken, badly dressed imbeciles spanking a golf ball in seemingly random directions! Not for me thanks as I am one of the afore mentioned imbeciles! Although me and the people I play with are "OK" at the game, it is very very easy to **** a golf ball in the wrong direction - a long way in the wrong direction! It amazes me that more damage to health / property isn't evident but there aren't many golfers that would leave their details in the garden of the home owner whose conservatory window they have just smashed! Some courses still provide insurance for their members and even visitors within the green fee occasionally but it is rare.
With regard to RoWs. If I see a ped or a rider on a golf course, whether they should be there or not, then I wait. Its bugger all to do with legality - just common decency. More inclined to launch one at the annoying four ball in front that seem incapable of completing a round of golf in under five hours!
There's a route i avoid because it crosses a golf course, partly because it doesn't link up very well, but also because there are some miserable gets who'll still drive the ball when bikers are passing nearby
They are not driving the ball at you, they are giving you a free golf ball. It's a marketing trick to get more people into golf. Pick up the ball, politely wave and then ride off.
With regard to RoWs. If I see a ped or a rider on a golf course, whether they should be there or not, then I wait. Its bugger all to do with legality - just common decency.
Exactly it's a shame more people don't have a sense of common decency and can 'share' the outdoors with others.
Do they not shout 'fore' or is that only in the movies?
That's real, you're supposed to shout fore if you think your shot might hit someone
OP you and the golfer have a joint responsibility, he should not hit the ball if you are in range and you should wait if you see them getting ready to play a shot. Common Sense really. Plenty of golf courses have BW's and footpaths cross them.
Based on my golfing ability the safest place for a person to be is in the centre of the fairway about 200-250 yds in front of me, pretty much zero chance the ball will go there.
there's a trail at chopwell woods which goes along the side of a golf course (conveniently known as the golf course trail...) the fairway runs parallel to the edge of the wood and is set back a fair bit, but even still i've been riding along and golf balls have landed in the woods right in front of me! 😕 there are warning signs along the edge of the woods i think but nothing on the trails, but then again they are a bit cheeky... maybe the local residents go out there and just take pot shots at bikers to annoy us 😉
Most golfers can barely hit the fairway, never mind a moving target.
I'm lethal if I've got a target, use to sometimes spend lunch hour a bloxham driving range playing wack'a'sheep they would loiter 250-300 yards out thinking they were safe but oh no !! 🙂
I'm lethal if I've got a target, use to sometimes spend lunch hour a bloxham driving range playing wack'a'sheep they would loiter 250-300 yards out thinking they were safe but oh no !!
I blame the sheep. They should read the signs.
The golf course needs to show "reasonable consideration" for path users, and this normally includes signs for path users (and golfers) with words to the effect of "Footpath crosses golf course at location X, please stop playing / walking / etc until path users / players cross". From memory, driving ranges need to be parallel to BW's.
Regarding signage, this is a grey area and depends on the ROW officers' opinion; it depends on the [i]exact[/i] wording but ultimately mustn't be “offputting or misleading”, personally I'd be OK with the first sign if it was to the effect of "Golf course - use path with care / make yourself be known / whatever" but the second sign if it says something like "Danger - golf balls flying above baby robins' faces. If you're injured tough", for me this is something which would deter your average path user so I'd definitely report it.
Certainly if the GC are aware that there is a particular part of PRoW that path users could be hit then I'd expect them to alter the route of course and / or put up netting.
A few GC's on my patch are having paths diverted; for a private landowner the prices are fairly prohibitive, but if you look at it purely on a business basis it makes sense to move them - especially considering the case ninfan mentions (which I vaguely remember, but yes we come back again to “reasonably” but this time “foreseeable”, there are quite a few other "reasonable"'s!)
I'm back in the office Thursday if you need a definitive answer, but shout if you need more info
A lot of golf courses have insurance for damage caused by mis-hit balls, which is handy, as one of our routes runs past the municipal course and they sometime play at night for charity. They tend to hook or slice when hit by a group of Exposure Maxx lights at full power!
I regularly use a bridleway through a golf course and one particular day a woman had a right go at me about riding my bike on her golf course. I pointed out that should I wish I could return and ride my horse there if I so desired. I also mentioned the irony of a woman on a golf course telling someone they didn't have a right to be there. She wasn't too impressed
I often run/ride through a course that has a bridleway through it. Out of all the years i've gone through it i've only had one bloke have ago at me so I stopped and had ago back at him but most of the time they just nod or say hello.