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The rest of the world, particularly all over Europe, must be absolutely laughing their tits off at this nonsense
And hoping that make a better job of it?
Austria looks to UK for 'Rwanda-style' plan to outsource asylum applications
"Last year, the Danish government paved the way for a deal with Rwanda for a similar scheme but since the general election the government has not moved forward with the plan."
Both the Austrian and Danish plans (which have come to nothing, as will the UK one) were for processing offshore IIRC, and successful applicants to then be allowed back into the country. It is the out right refusal to allow people to apply for UK asylum that marks out the UK plans as being even worse.
If Sunak just changed the policy to allow offshore applications for UK asylum, then his legal problems would diminish. The only reason for not doing so is the suspicion that most of these "illegal immigrants" are genuine asylum seekers who would be successful in their applications... and so the UK would end up admitting them... raising our relatively small take up of asylum seekers towards our fair share, which would lose the Tories support from those who just want "numbers" down, and don't care if people are fleeing oppression or danger at all.
The policy is as if designed to be a "deterrent" to people with a genuine asylum claim. It's sickening, and won't work even on its own terms anyway. If it ever actually got implemented. Which it won't. Sunak should pivot to something new. Fast.
You know how the rest of Europe has watched the rolling car crash that is Brexit and its put a stop to any thoughts of leaving the EU due to its obviously incomparable stupidity?
Well they're watching this too and doubtless it will have exactly the same effect
Yeah, don't even bother trying anything that gang of nobheads is insisting on pursuing. It'll be a disaster, absolutely guarenteed
Thanks for your Brexity input though Ernesto. 😀
Thanks for your Brexity input though Ernesto. 😀
What's it got to do with Brexit? You mentioned Europe for some reason.
You think that if a country is in the EU they treat asylum seekers with humanity and compassion, is that it?
From LAST month:
Chancellor Chancellor Karl Nehammer is facing an election next year amid growing calls to tighten immigration, and in September he said that third-country processing was a possibility, to ensure that failed asylum seekers would "no longer be able to go into hiding in the EU or apply for asylum in several European countries at the same time.”
In the EU we had the right to return them to France. Brexit has unleashed and legitimised this racist nonsense.
The "problem" barely existed before that stupid referendum, and the broken UK politics and lack of international cooperation that followed...
Yep, far from Brexit stopping immigration (one of the reasons for Leave that was consistently put forward), it's dramatically ramped up because they know the Dublin Agreement no longer applies, we can't send them back.
We could of course have worked with the French to process them in Calais but that would have involved working with Johnny Foreigner (plus it was a sensible idea) so of course the headbangers rejected it (while shouting about sov-rin-tee).
And out of all the issues facing the country at the moment - inflation, cost-of-living, crumbling infrastructure - they're choosing to tear themselves to pieces over sending a couple of hundred people to Rwanda at a cost of £140m ad housing a couple of hundred more in a disease-ridden barge at a cost of about £1bn (plus whatever other backhanders and sweeteners were needed).
And if they think immigration is bad now, wait until the full effects of climate change start to be felt with millions of people being flooded / burned out of entire countries...
And hoping that make a better job of it?
Austria looks to UK for ‘Rwanda-style’ plan to outsource asylum applications
I know it might be lazy reporting, but the Austrian scheme looks different in that it is just to process asylum claims in Rwanda...then allow them to come if successful.
Under a Rwanda-style plan, Austria wants to process asylum seekers in a third country before deciding whether to let them come to Europe or not.
Which is what France offered to allow us to do......(anyone remember Sangatte?)
[Edit: Apologies, Kelvin and others have already made this point 🙄]
Its sort of amazing that they’ve created the very thing that’s destroying them
If you gave this lot a Moguai they'd be stuffing beef wellingtons into it by 1 second past midnight
It sounds very like he's not making the vote on this a VONC and relying on the opposition parties to vote it through in the face of his own internal opposition, which is an… interesting strategy
It sounds very like he’s not making the vote on this a VONC and relying on the opposition parties to vote it through in the face of his own internal opposition, which is an… interesting strategy
The opposition need to grow a pair and not be suckered into propping up this lame duck government and it's illegal policies.
the Austrian scheme looks different in that it is just to process asylum claims in Rwanda…then allow them to come if successful.
Yeah the Austrians flying asylum seekers to and back from Africa sounds like possibly a better idea.
But are they laughing at the UK as binners suggests? According to the Guardian the Austrian government is working with the UK government over the idea:
Austria to work with UK on Rwanda-style plan for asylum seekers
Austria has also been pushing the EU to adopt a Rwanda-style scheme across Europe as part of changes to deal with the rise in arrivals from across the Mediterranean and its eastern borders.
They seem well impressed with the UK:
Karner, Austria’s interior minister, said: “The UK has a lot of experience when it comes to processing asylum applications outside of Europe in the future. That was an important theme in my meeting with the home secretary in Vienna because Austria can benefit from this experience.
Are they laughing? Sounds like the UK government might be providing an example for the rest of Europe.
The opposition need to grow a pair and not be suckered into propping up this lame duck government and it’s illegal policies.
All the main opposition parties will reject this. They've said they would many times, and nothing announced today will change that. It can only pass parliament on Conservative votes.
But are they laughing?
With the phoenix like rise of the FPÖ, and the ÖVP chasing after them, I doubt many normal headed people in Austria are laughing about politics. Unbelievably, we still have a government adopting worse policies.
Sounds like the UK government might be providing an example for the rest of Europe.
So... we're the guinea pig country for all this nonsense, and if it can be pushed through, others might take on a watered down version of it? Lucky bloody us. Perhaps Binners is right... they are laughing at us for being so willingly experimented on. Their far right elements can sit back and learn what's best avoided, or pick and reuse things that stick without too much of a smell.
The opposition need to grow a pair and not be suckered into propping up this lame duck government and it’s illegal policies.
Theres no way on earth the opposition parties will support this.
Theres little chance Lil Rishi can get his own MPs, even with a 3 line whip, to vote for this without a major rebellion. The question is: will it be the headbangers rebelling as it doesn't go far enough, or the sane ones as they recognise this as total madness? Maybe it'll be both?
Remember when Liz Truss essentially made her fracking vote a VONC with all kinds of threats being bandied around by the whips? Then the furious backtracking when she knew she faced a major rebellion? Remember how that worked out for her? A total farce!
Rishi doesn't learn from others mistakes, does he?
This will be exactly the same. Rishi's apparently just as delusional as his predecessor about how much authority he actually has and is about to repeat the same stupidity, by the looks of it
will it be the headbangers rebelling as it doesn’t go far enough, or the sane ones as they recognise this as total madness?
I'd say there's a real possibility it will be both.
One of the recurring themes with Sunak is his complete political naïvety. There is no way a more experienced political operator would have got himself in this mess, and it's hard to shake the notion that this could well be the end of this government.
Maybe it’ll be both
Or neither. The sane ones know they have no one ready to be crowned or win a vote with the members. The headbangers who'll publicly vote against Sunak are probably fewer than those who'll privately put letters in. If he falls, it won't be in a vote in parliament. He'll be knifed using the party machine. This legislation could be what brings him down... but it'll be Tory MPs using 1922, rather than by voting with opposition MPs in the lobbies.
And also, booting him out of No. 10 and appointing someone else without a GE is likely to go down badly with the public?
One of the recurring themes with Sunak is his complete political naïvety.
He only became an MP in 2015, its no wonder he doesn't know what he's doing.
New PM and then an election in May might work with the electorate. That's less than six months to do it all, change leader and have an election campaign. There are probably still some people who'd give them yet another chance if they went for a clean broom and a reasonably quick election. If you know people like that (I think I do), be ready for frustrating pre-election conversations down the pub...
[And also, booting him out of No. 10 and appointing someone else without a GE is likely to go down badly with the public?
Why do you think they introduced all that anti-demonstration legislation?! Precisely for this moment when we (finally) want to riot and now we can't.
The French would have had the yellow jackets on and been firebombing Paris years ago. Us, we just sit there and tut a bit.
There's a strong chance they'll try and bluff out another leadership challenge if they actually get to the point of trying to oust Sunak.
There are probably still some people who’d give them yet another chance if they went for a clean broom and a reasonably quick election
Worryingly, if the opposition parties don’t coordinate an anti Tory stance and/or fail to offer a genuinely alternative vision, that and apathy may be all the Tories need to sneak in FPTP
@dudeofdoom Technically he was unopposed when he took over from Truss. When he ran against her...
He only became an MP in 2015, its no wonder he doesn’t know what he’s doing.
That is likely to also be a problem for Starmer who first became an MP on the same day as Sunak. Although in Sunak's case he did at least have experience of high office.
Whatever the outcome of the next general election, huge Labour majority or none at all, I think it is safe to say that it will result in Starmer becoming PM.
Whatever the outcome of the next general election, huge Labour majority or none at all, I think it is safe to say that it will result in Starmer becoming PM.
I'd prefer to know who MrsBinners is betting on....
I reckon we can safely say that the Tories won't be the largest party in Westminster after the next general election
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I never expected them to get an 80 seat majority in 2019, but here we are.
No one should be complacent about these slippery bastards, our politically uneducated electorate and the FOTP system
There are probably still some people who’d give them yet another chance if they went for a clean broom and a reasonably quick election. If you know people like that
I know a fair few people like that - I call them tory ****ers. They would never vote Labour because you know, they will take all their money and give it those scroungers
kelvin
Full MemberIf Sunak just changed the policy to allow offshore applications for UK asylum, then his legal problems would diminish. The only reason for not doing so is the suspicion that most of these “illegal immigrants” are genuine asylum seekers who would be successful in their applications…
Nah, it's not that simple- there's a third option which you didn't mention, and realistically that's what it's actually about. Genuine or not doesn't really matter at this point, because even genuine asylum seekers usually find it incredibly hard and slow to succeed in their applications, and end up stuck in the UK's asylum limbo- and it's that 160000-strong, 20-month-average limbo that's the real problem, both for claimants and us. On average they won't get a first decision til halfway through the next parliament so the actual outcome is not the point.
So what'd happen if we were sending people to Rwanda but still processing their applications as UK asylees, is they'd just be stuck there instead of here for 2-3 years while their paperwork sits in a pile, ruining their lives and costing us a fortune for no reason other than that Tories smashed the asylum system just because they liked the screaming noises it made.
In the end, like with just about everything else in the UK's self-inflicted asylum disater it's about that 160000-deep pile of paperwork and lives that's taken 10 years and 6 home secretarys to create, not about what happens to people at the end.
The Conservatives have zero interest in sorting the asylum system… I was just talking about Sunak’s possible route out of his current mess politically with this dumb policy that’s been hung around his neck… get him safely to the end of 2023 as PM… which is surely all he’s trying to do right now? He’s taken the wrong approach.
So why don't we have some kind of 'grey' status for asylum seekers waiting to get a decision? There is plenty of work on farms, cash-in-hand, for example. That might pay for accommodation and makes a useful contribution to society.
Starmer who first became an MP on the same day as Sunak. Although in Sunak’s case he did at least have experience of high office.
Are you sure about the high office bit?
Fleecing the markets by speculation for one's personal gain doesn't really qualify.
OTOH Starmer having lead a national organisation that administered justice, trying to deliver justice without fear or favour, with all those attendant issues to resolve, seems much more likely to be suitable for high political office
Fleecing the markets by speculation for one’s personal gain doesn’t really qualify.
But being UK Chancellor of the Exchequer definitely does. It is one of the 4 Great Offices of State in the UK.
There is plenty of work on farms
But those are the jobs that honest ,hard working, white British people need. You can't go giving it all to devious, dishonest, lazy, scrounging not white forerign criminals.
Are there any new petitions for a GE?
L
I’d prefer to know who MrsBinners is betting on…
She doesn’t do politics bets. Unlike me. And I wish my football bets were anywhere near my political bets. I’ve got pretty much a 100% record.
I called Liz Truss as next leader after Boris, 12 months in advance at 9/1 because everyone assumed it would be Sunak.
I put Braverman as next Tory leader in June at 9.5/1. She’s now 4/1 and my cash out has just come into play so I’m guessing the bookies think this is now a live issue
If braverman gets in then the tories will have a handful of seats after the next election.
Trouble is, she will have utterly ****ed the country by that point
'Stopping the Boats' It just seems like so much effort to achieve almost nothing. I mean there must be literally a few hundred people each year who end up fraudulently claiming asylum. There are more important things for me as a voter to be concerned about.
So why don’t we have some kind of ‘grey’ status for asylum seekers waiting to get a decision? There is plenty of work on farms, cash-in-hand, for example. That might pay for accommodation and makes a useful contribution to society.
But, they would say and it's possibly true, that just creates an incentive for "economic migrants" to overload (more) the asylum system with bullshit applications so they can get a good 18-36 months of work (or maybe just disappear). And conversely refugees have a bunch of complex needs thay are unlikely to be met on a Lincolnshire cabbage farm.
If "we" just want a bunch of cheap labour to show up and pick veggies for 9 months at a time, then we should stop fannying around, pick a couple of target countries (e.g. Albania and Algeria), and operate a seasonal farming migrant labour programme like other countries do.
But trying to solve labour problems via the asylum system is going to fail everyone.