Talking about money and the economy....
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1763357390936723903?t=xwFb-hSr1JnQAleFsgAHIA&s=19
This government is creeping towards not calling one at all.
It feels that way. Hopefully we’re paranoid. But “saving democracy” by “delaying” an election using emergency means does feel like the destination with recent announcements. Don’t want to believe it… but that could just be British exceptionalism at play. Put it this way, there are USA backed groups that have had people fully embedded in government under a string of different Tory PMs, including Sunak, who wouldn’t blink at Trump having more than two terms in office over there… why wouldn’t they be pushing for similar “games” to maintain influence back here?
failing Rwanda scheme that Tories desperately tried to hide
Which is presumably why Rishi Sunak is shifting from weirdly treating the deportation of refugees to Rwanda as the most important issue facing the UK, to now staging emergency announcements outside Number 10 about the threat to the country from "Islamists".
If he's clever he will put Starmer on the spot by declaring the need to introduce emergency legislation to tackle the threat of mob rule from Israel-hating Islamists on our streets.
Obviously there isn't a problem and the demonstrations expressing opposition to the slaughter currently occurring in occupied Palestine are perfectly peaceful and family friendly affairs. In fact the half a dozen or so arrests that inevitably occurs when hundreds of thousands demonstrate is apparently less than the rate of arrests at Glastonbury.
But the Tory press has been pushing the Braverman "hate marches" narrative for months and no doubt some people believe that they represent mob rule.
If he’s clever he will put Starmer in the spot by declaring the need to introduce emergency legislation to tackle the threat of mob rule from Israel-hating Islamists on our streets.
If Starmers clever, he will point out that legislation already exists, and have a long list of quotes from Tories to demonstrate who has been stoking the fires.
Of all the areas to start a fight with Starmer, the former DPP, I'd think the application of existing laws and legislation probably isn't the wisest one.
Given Sunaks clueless political instincts I fully expect him to choose that hill to die on.
Talking about money and the economy….
But the Rwanda scheme is about putting people off coming to UK rather than the numbers it is sending but as we know those desperate people who are even aware of the scheme will take their 1% chance of being one of the people sent to Rwanda and still risk it anyway.
Hmm £580m for 300 people.
May as well throw them a million quid and send them to Portugal/Spain to sort out a house and golden visa 🙂
£580 million could build a lot of affordable housing.
That’s for the poor people,who need to buy less lattes and work harder thou ,the important work is keeping out the immigrant invasion and the ‘Islamists’ who are going to change our culture 🙁
IMHO it’s all a bit worrying the speed the new rhetoric has moved.
IMHO it’s all a bit worrying the speed the new rhetoric has moved.
"I am concerned about democracy!"
"Umm...do you fancy holding a general election at some point...?"
"NOT THAT SORT OF DEMOCRACY!"
He told us what he was cheesed off about but gave no statement on how he plans to deal with it.
He’s good at doing that.
However, I’ve just heard on the news that he intends to fix it all by…
*checks notes*
… changing the legal definition of what constitutes extremism.
Presumably it’s ‘anything I don’t like’ then?
He really is absolutely useless, isn’t he? He thinks he’s going to just scrawl something on the back of a fag packet and everyone’s just going to nod that through parliament, are they?
I’m guessing we can file that alongside the 40 new hospitals and flights to Rwanda in the ‘things that are never going to happen’ folder
£580 million could build a lot of affordable housing.
Or sort out Home Office immigration delays....
… changing the legal definition of what constitutes extremism.
Presumably it’s ‘anything I don’t like’ then?
When I was talking about the 1930s German play book....
He’s really struggling with the meaning of this ‘democracy’ lark he’s always rattling on about
He’s clearly not got a clue what it actually means and seems to think he gets to define what it is on any given day
He really is a dangerous, totally clueless little dweeb.
Did I mention that I hate even more today?
… changing the legal definition of what constitutes extremism.
Committing genocide: Would you like to buy some weapons?
Protesting against genocide: Extremist! Down with your protests!
Being an MP and inciting hatred: If I absolutely have to I'll remove the whip from you although actually I agree with everything you said.
Protesting against inciting hatred: How dare you infringe on our great freedom of speech! Down with your protests. You nasty little extremist!
When Mrs. S sees Sunak, she sees a snail.
It makes me laugh.
He's a tidgy bellend.
He doesn't have the legislative time to do anything before the election now, regardless of what date he calls it for.
So file this under 'damage-limitation-gammon-luring' before polls open.
It’s also got ‘torn to pieces in the house of Lords’ written all over it, which may also be the point
Just more culture war bollocks from a man who’s never had an original thought in his entire cosseted life
Clearly Sunak is concerned about attacks on MPs by extremists. Such as the attack on George Galloway which left him with scars that he now covers with a hat.
https://twitter.com/raggedtp/status/1763529414170558674?s=46&t=0EdQH2VaJpSkNmaw8CsUvg
If he does try and dodge an election the poll tax riots will seem like afternoon tea at Bettys compared to what will happen. Im the last person to attend a political demo but id be out on the streets if he tries to pull something like that.
id be out on the streets
👉🏼 Extremist!!!
[ see how this works ]
He’s clearly not got a clue what it actually means and seems to think he gets to define what it is on any given day
Thing is, as the PM of a majority party in the British parliament - he's not wrong. He could just decide to become leader-for-life, and it wouldn't be illegal.
If he does try and dodge an election the poll tax riots will seem like afternoon tea at Bettys
There'll be an hour long queue to get in to choose your petrol bomb?
Thing is, as the PM of a majority party in the British parliament – he’s not wrong. He could just decide to become leader-for-life, and it wouldn’t be illegal.
I can see the Lords delaying it for a bit, give us time to get tooled up after queuing at Bettys
Such a move – which the Tory government has previously claimed would drive wealth out of the country – would be seen as nakedly political because Labour has promised to use the £2bn it would raise from scrapping non-dom tax status to fund its flagship policy of breakfast clubs in all state primary schools, as well as more dental appointments.
Labour sources have indicated that if the government does scale back tax breaks for non-doms, Keir Starmer’s party may not be able to fulfil its policy commitments should it come to power.
There's something inherently callous about this move if Hunt and Sunak do it. It's taking food out of the mouths of those who need it most. All for the sake of salting the earth for the next government.
I loathe these people
Meanwhile, as the social cleansing of frightful working class people from the countries cities continues apace, rents in towns within commutable distance of them have gone up 30 - 40% in 3 years
That’ll have all the Tory landlords rubbing their hands with glee in our rentier economy
Rents soar in towns as tenants priced out of cities
£580M for 300 people?
Not that far short tbh. Crowdfunding could get us there I think.
That’ll have all the Tory landlords rubbing their hands with glee in our rentier economy
Why do you think the cash strapped councils have been given the green light to sell off assets?, there is absolutely zero benefit in this policy for 99% of the country, yet again the 1% have their chance to royally **** us all over
yet again the 1% have their chance to royally **** us all over
Yep - starve the councils of funding, wait until they're forced to sell off land and assets, snap it all up on the cheap, convert it to rental accommodation, watch the ££ roll in.
Absolute scum. Profit before anything and everything else.
Another reason they keep increasing taxation on earned income for actual work, while reducing taxation on unearned income on capital gains where you benefit simply from owning stuff.
I see Honest Bob is now repeating (in the Mail, where else?) the same ridiculous scaremongering as Cruella and Anderson that the country is being taken over by Islamists.
This is the kind of rubbish you’d expect from Tommy Robinson or Nick Griffin, not people who until recently occupied senior ministerial posts.
The pace with which the Tory party is morphing into the BNP seems to be quickening up significantly as Rishi mouths platitudes and does nothing about this far right takeover he’s enabled.
The racism and islamophobia isn’t a dog whistle any more, it’s a bloody big PA system
Thing is, as the PM of a majority party in the British parliament – he’s not wrong. He could just decide to become leader-for-life, and it wouldn’t be illegal.
There are others than the PM who decide this, several different entities. Once the term expires he is no longer prime minister as there is no official government. David Allen Green is the goto for this information.
Binners, there is a reason why The Mail don't have or allow online archives. They are pretty much repeating what they printed in the 1930s. Never ever trust politicians of whatever hue with 'simple' answers
The job of government in a capitalist state is to provide the infrastructure and regulatory framework to support business. This is true for the financial industry at the moment (although this framework seems to protect the people separating punters from their money far more than the punters).
Everywhere else the infrastructure is in such a poor condition it is inhibiting business (Huge hospitals waiting lists, a transport system that is falling apart (unless you live in London), a regulatory system that is so understaffed that sensible discussions and decisions are a thing of the past, and a broken police service and legal system). Running a business in these conditions is desperate, planning for the future worse.
I'm not sure that the current Tory party can be described as capitalist, at best they are asset strippers. They are getting more and more bizarre about who to blame. You could say;
'First they blamed the unions but.., then they blamed the immigrants but.....'
Meanwhile they have spent getting on for £300 million on the Rwanda publicity stunt which if it ever goes ahead will work out at a million pounds a deportation.
Why don't the malfeasance in public office laws extend to the government?
This lot are Disaster Capitalists. Pure and simple. Keep the country in constant chaos while your mates asset strip it
Hunt is doing the rounds this morning regurgitating the nonsense that he can once again cut funding for public services and somehow improve them at the same time, because… erm… efficiencies
Its patent bloody nonsense and I can’t see anyone buying it, as we can all see everything crumbling around us
Expect tax cuts this week then as a final pressie to their corrupt mates (bye bye inheritance tax) and to salt the earth for an incoming Labour government
I recently got a new job. During a number of interviews I was told that anyone who paid tax on an income of less than £80k was a fool (think setting up several companies to charge each other for services and before you know where you are every one is making money but no profit). If we had a fair tax system where everyone had the same basic allowances it would be a start.
Expect tax cuts this week then as a final pressie to their corrupt mates (bye bye inheritance tax) and to salt the earth for an incoming Labour government
Part of the plan for getting back in 4-5 years down the line.
Cut taxes now (even though the country is falling to bits around us and there are no more efficiencies to be found).
Labour come in and start trying to fix the mess and the first thing they need is some money = raise taxes to fill the hole that the Tories have just created.
Labour will be painted as the Big Bad Tax Grabbers who can't be trusted with the economy. Look at us wonderful Tories, we cut taxes for hard-working Brits, now Labour are in power, they've taken money from YOUR pocket!
Labour will be painted as the Big Bad Tax Grabbers who can’t be trusted with the economy. Look at us wonderful Tories, we cut taxes for hard-working Brits, now Labour are in power, they’ve taken money from YOUR pocket!
Painfully predictable but likely.
We could always vote the bastards back in so they have to clean up their mess.
(Let's not)
Ipsos latest Has
Lab 47
Con 20!
LD 9
Grn 8
Ref 8
pretty sure this will never happen but this isc what that might look like
That'd be nice to see. An extinction level event. They deserve it.
Just listening to some Tufton Street loon on Radio 4 this morning (why do they give these people airtime?) saying that Hunt can afford to cut taxes and all that he needs to do is 'reform' public services to cut out waste.
Is there anyone outide Tufton Street and Downing Street who still believes this shit?
Is there anyone outide Tufton Street and Downing Street who still believes this shit?
They don't actually believe it, but they know that there's a certain percentage of voters who do.
all that he needs to do is ‘reform’ public services to cut out waste.
I think that this administration has taken the view that cuts to local services are seen by many folks as a lack of money because of profligate council waste rather than a lack of central funding, and I think largely; they're right.
On the idea that the Tories are going to kneecap a Labour administration with any upcoming budget: doesn't that ignore the fact that labour can cancel all of these budget policies as soon as it gets into power (if)? They will undoubtedly be comprehensively kneecapped by the current state of everything as they will find it on day 1, but they're not going to just continue with Hunt's budget for 4-5 years like some runway for a Tory re-election down the line!
Really? Come on. In your job you must be acutely aware what’s happening with care, health and social services that must be paid for from council funds.
Yes I can. But I think the calculation that they've made is; "who's to blame for that?" The state of the roads for instance, or bin collections or street lights or even councils going bust...folks will blame councils not central govt, regardless of the fact that funding for these things comes from Westminster. I think the Tories are right, I think there's a group of folks who think that largely local council services are paid for via council tax, and if they can't manage, then it's down to things like the single lesbian mother's breakfast clubs or the bike lane they're building, or the big office block in the centre of town, or "look at all the folks who work at the council, what do they do all day?"
that they've consistently had their central funding slashed comes way down on most folks ides of why the library is closed most of the week, or the swimming pool's been shut for months now.
On the idea that the Tories are going to kneecap a Labour administration with any upcoming budget
The plan will be... to get out of this depression, and maintain currency value and avoid runaway inflation, Labour will have to both spend more and increase tax revenue (or more likely at first, just cancel the tax and spending cuts that haven't really kicked in). This gives the Tories a "Look, Labour tax you more, and in the last five years things haven't really got much better" attack line come the 2029 election. It's going to take a decade or more to turn things around. It can't be done off the back of tax cuts... so the Tories will do everything they can to prepare the ground for a future election based on tax levels and the slow return to stronger economy (with a bit of "surrendering to Europe" if they can find a way). Oh, and immigration. Cancelling the Rwanda scheme will be painted as "having no plan" on controlling migration... "we had a plan, and it would have worked if it wasn't for those pesky woke kids... shut the borders, send them away".
folks will blame councils not central govt
Ahh... I agree completely then Nick. I took the wrong meaning from your post. Sorry.
Part of the success of the 2016 General Election for the Conservatives was blaming Labour councils in the North for the effects of funding cuts, gaining parliamentary seats from Labour. So it's worked before.
How about, Labour get in and on Day 1 they change the rules currently allowing large corporations to avoid paying tax? Increased revenue and no need to squeeze the general population.
Councils, the NHS and pretty much all public services are horrendously wasteful and that goes all the way to Westminster. A lot of that waste is inherent in the public sector, always has been, a completely new layer of waste has been added since it was all marketised.
The real question is not whether or not there is waste, there is and it's massive, but whether on not the Tories have any meaningful plans to tackle it (many have tried and miserably failed) to which the answer is clearly they don' have a Scoobies meaning Mr Tufton Street was clearly talking out of his bottom, but then we knew that anyway.
all that he needs to do is ‘reform’ public services to cut out waste.
This has been a narrative for years now. This drip-drip-drip that public sector is a bunch of nepotism and inefficiency and jokes aimed at local councils like "how many people does it take to fill a pothole? one to do the work, 14 to stand around watching..."
I mean, yes of course there are inefficiencies in everything but some of it you simply need to suck up because it costs you more trying to fix the inefficiency than actually just letting it run. And as @MoreCashThanDash says above, in many cases you need MORE money to fix inefficiencies because you need to invest in new equipment, staff training, resources etc.
The counter example to that is starving everyone of funds so that things become so run down, so under-resourced that nothing can ever be efficient and the "repair" (when it finally comes) costs orders of magnitude more than you've ever saved.
I think, politically, Labour will have to prioritize spending on things people can actually see.
Fix the roads
New schools
While fixing social care, problems in the NHS, or HS2 would be a better thing to focus funds on, I don't think it's tangible enough that people would notice. Whereas they will notice if they drive past a smart new school building, on a road that's not damaging their precious ****panzer's 19" alloys.
Even if spending £28 Billion on renewables was a wise investment and would pay back in future revenue, people wont notice that. In the same way they haven't noticed 30 years of North Sea oil and gas has funded the NHS until it ran out.
I don't think they've got enough political capital to spend on tax raises to fund the more hidden problems, or ones you only find when you need them. I still worry that as a result of FPTP and a 2 party system that if there isn't a tangible everyday sense of 'better' that we'll just lurch to a Badenoch / Farage / Braverman / Gove in 5 years time.
I still worry that as a result of FPTP and a 2 party system that if there isn’t a tangible everyday sense of ‘better’ that we’ll just lurch to a Badenoch / Farage / Braverman / Gove in 5 years time.
Share that concern and Starmer/Reeves are not saying anything to lower that concern. Strange that people will still go back to tories after the 13 years of shit they have just had just because the replacement party weren't noticeably better, i.e. they were not worse, which is how it would be with another 5 years of tories.
In the same way they haven’t noticed 30 years of North Sea oil and gas has funded the NHS until it ran out.
Wasn't a whopping chunk of that initially spent on deindustrialisation and paying benefits to the 3.5 million people that threw out of work?
Your point is spot on though. People will want to see visable change for the better in the same way the last 14 years has seen a significant change for the worst, unless you're one of the top 5%, in which case its been peachy ****ing creamy
Just listening to some Tufton Street loon on Radio 4 this morning (why do they give these people airtime?) saying that Hunt can afford to cut taxes and all that he needs to do is ‘reform’ public services to cut out waste.
Is there anyone outide Tufton Street and Downing Street who still believes this shit?
The Tufton Street loons work like this;
1. Get some vacuous 'weather vane' type career politician (Blo Jo, Radon Liz etc) to implement a policy that could potentially break the economy.
2. Bet against the pound.
3. Make lots of money from betting against the pound when the economy inevitably breaks.
They come across as loons but they know exactly what they are doing, and they are all the more dangerous for it.
Wasn’t a whopping chunk of that initially spent on deindustrialisation and paying benefits to the 3.5 million people that threw out of work?
I mean it wasn't hypothecated either way, it's just a statistical fact / anomaly that UK spending on the NHS and income from O&G licenses/taxes/windfalls matches pretty much 1:1 from ~1980 till 2010 (i.e. the boom years). The welfare state budget may well be very similar.
So the question is, now that we've had a free trial of social democratic policies, are we going to carry on paying the subscription?
Tories are saying no, Labor aren't saying much at all.
And if yes, how? The idea of a nationalized energy company posed by Labour to deliver renewables is IMO a really good idea to fill that void. It's a necessary industry, it's profitable, it's fairly low risk, is a similar financial magnitude, and 'we' own the resource (the sea-bed) so if we don't want competition we can restrict access to it. Taxing for it is a non-starter, no party has the stomach for the ~5% of GDP (i.e. 5% on income tax) it would probably cost to fix everything to a utopian level.
While fixing social care, problems in the NHS, or HS2 would be a better thing to focus funds on, I don’t think it’s tangible enough that people would notice
I think they will notice social care and the NHS. Not being able to get a doctor's appointment seems to be a pressing issue for most people.
I think they will notice social care and the NHS. Not being able to get a doctor’s appointment seems to be a pressing issue for most people.
It took me ~30 months from emergency appointment to surgery to get a tooth extracted.
My local MP:
TBH I suspect that people just don't bother asking him questions unless they're his multimillion dollar hedgefunds so he possibly isn't lying.
But unlike potholes, most people won't actually go to hospital in an election cycle, most people probably don't even see a GP. Let alone see enough of the NHS to to notice an improvement over 5 years. If they did, we'd not have had a decade and a half of austerity governments.
Whilst for a lot of people access to care / NHS provision is something that's top of their agenda you've still got a lot of people who aren't aware of the issues until they suddenly need help.
What we fundamentally need is for any government to get to grips with the cost of living, we need that massive investment in renewables to bring down energy costs and insulate us from global rice shocks and we need house prices tackling through investment in more housing and critically restricting what people can borrow. Trouble is both are long term and in the case of the second one likely to cause some short term pain. However long term it will improve peoples health, reduce the benefit burden and free money up to invest in other things.
The basic foundations of living in the UK have effectively been mortgaged away and we can't afford the repayments anymore.
you’ve still got a lot of people who aren’t aware of the issues until they suddenly need help.
Yeah, perhaps, but the longer it goes on the more people are affected and it's been going on for a long time already.
you’ve still got a lot of people who aren’t aware of the issues until they suddenly need help.
Very much this. We see it with folk slagging off the snp government for doing nothing when actually they have done a lot but its targeted at the poorest so middle class folk don't see it
amendment passed that ssys uk government has to stay within uk and international law
mad that something like this is needed!
This time to say the bill cannot be implemented until Rwanda has cleaned up its act
But...but...Rwanda is safe and a really nice place to be! Suella said so!
Anyway, Rishi is out at the site of the now-closed Honda plant in Swindon which is currently being demolished to explain how actually it's a good thing and the economy is on the right tracks.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/rishi-sunak-claims-uk-economy-is-on-the-right-track/
Whilst for a lot of people access to care / NHS provision is something that’s top of their agenda you’ve still got a lot of people who aren’t aware of the issues until they suddenly need help.
Yep. I don't have anyone needing care but we can get GPs appointment whenever we want, don't even have to phone up at 08:00 most of the time. When using the NHS hospitals for my wife it was via A&E but she was seen quickly and admitted straight away.
So from my narrow view of it, the service seems great.
You mean you can’t just glibly declare somewhere to be safe, despite all legally binding evidence to the contrary, just because you say so?
I don’t know what the worlds coming to!
IANAL but - the thing is - you can. There isn't really any law to say that you can't say Rwanda is safe (in Parliament's opinion) or even that night is day and the moon is cheese. There's no law against it and the "legally binding evidence" isn't really that, because the courts are overstepping in saying parliament can't declare what the hell it likes, as long as a vote goes through. And if you have a majority and don't have rebels, then Governments can declare what they like. Yes, 1984 is mainly factual.
The people that count in this are us - if your Government is going off and wildly declaring stuff like this we have the power to vote them out, or indeed Parliament can declare no confidence is there is enough rebelling and give us that chance before their time is officially up. Or we go along with it. Remember what I said about 1984.....
Doesn't make it correct..... and whether Parliament says it's safe or not, you still have to adhere to international law. If you deport people to safe/unsafe countries which is where this could be going to AIUI - even if Parliament says Rwanda is safe then International courts can say that it isn't and you're breaking the law.
Part of the success of the 2016 General Election for the Conservatives was blaming Labour councils in the North for the effects of funding cuts, gaining parliamentary seats from Labour. So it’s worked before.
And I heard it from a pal who lives in Hartlepool, they'd voted Labour the last couple of times and it had just got worse so that's why they voted Tory.
He really didn't seem to understand that Central Govt controlled how much Local Govt spent, and on what.
And the worse thing, he's still gullible/ignorant.
The whole idea behind George Osbourne's austrity programme was to devolve the blame for brutal cuts to local councils instead of central government. On this basis the harshest cuts were to urban and City areas with Labour councils, where leafy, affluent southern Tory councils got off lightly. I can only find the stats for a couple of those years, but it shows whats been happening for the last 14 years...
This same principle has continued apace and due to some peoples stupidty its worked. Lil Rishi even bragged about it
Another day, another ministerial shitshow.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1765122659212280150
Once upon a time, being forced to pay damages and costs to settle a libel action for accusing a respected academic of supporting a proscribed extremist organisation would have been a resigning matter. But happily, those days are behind us so the talented Ms Donelan can carry on delivering for the British public.
you think she paid her own damages?
that sort of thing is for the little people!
https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1765082042709266691?t=liPYI88vsYvpcEeU8zF5uQ&s=19
its not like she got £15k for being education minister for 1 day under Johnson
or asked a question in the HOC about why a certain company didn't get a PPE contract
in the end the company in question did get the £40m contract...
the company was owned by her husband
Any sum is a bargain to keep Donelan in post. We should be grateful and humble for whatever it is she does for us.
I local news, I saw a headline saying that a government minister had absolutely denied there are plans for a May election (despite a summit being cancelled).
So that's me thinking there will be a May election.
Any sum is a bargain to keep Donelan in post. We should be grateful and humble for whatever it is she does for us.
Donelan is another one who's thick as mince. Just when you think that a strategically shaved ape in a suit like Gullis is as dumb as they could be, the former Education Secretary and now Minister for Science and other clever things opens her mouth and you're like "oh yeah, not got a ****ing clue..."
It looks like Lil Rishi is struggling with his tightening up the definition of what constitutes extremism.
The problem is that when the lawyers put a harsher definition of the word in front of him they’re also pointing out that the new definition would also have to be applied to his own backbenchers. So given some of their recent bile-spewing outbursts, they would now be legally classified as extremists and open to prosecution 😂
So given some of their recent bile-spewing outbursts, they would now be legally classified as extremists and open to prosecution 😂
They're good extremists. Like the folk that attacked the Capitol building.
The bad extremists are the other sort. Not Us. Them.
Like the distinction between a freedom fighter and a terrorist.
Michele Donelan has played a blinder releasing her statement on the eve of the budget
otherwise that would be the focus of much more interest
The more you read about the Michelle Donelan case, the worse it gets. So she's ordering dossiers to be compiled on people who don't agree with her, having been told to do so by the Tufton Street mob?
Nothing remotely sinister about that then?
Advocating trans rights or supporting striking public sector workers is now classed, by her, as “militant leftism” apparently
So the Sunak's are one the campaign trail together. Domestic bliss, arguing about who stacks the dishwasher.
I thought his wife had nothing to do with politics?
She's fair game now.
I would wager that neither of them even know how to operate a dishwasher or where the tablets are kept.