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planning our extension at the back of the house. easiest way to describe is an L shape at the back which we would like to extend fully across the back and out. so this means removing two external load bearing walls.
it's the size of a single garage so about 5m by 3m to be removed. full width once knocked through would be 8m ish
is this possible to do this without leaving a pillar to support the two steels where the corner currently is?
what's the sort of ballpark I might be looking at for the structural work?
this means removing two external load bearing walls... is this possible to do this without leaving a pillar to support the two steels
Good luck. Let us know how things turn out.
Yes, totally possible. You just need to cantilever the steel beams and anchor into the other walls.
Just expect the cost to be at least triple have a pillar!
Triple of how much though? I haven’t a scooby. Are we talking £3k becoming £9k or way more?
We are two years away from remortgage so at ideas and ballparks at the moment no where close to asking for quotes
Absolutely, but cost would depend on a number of factors.
(i.e. Single storey or two?)
One for the strucutal engineer and builder to quote on.
The actual steel will be the cheap bit.
Why do you want to get rid of the pier, all glass? If so that will be quite spendy compared to two sets of sliders/bi-folds.
Which corner are you referring to? The re-entrant one or in the middle of the new rear facade? If the latter I've done that, opening was 5m wide, SHS across the back with a UC landing on to it.
The brick piers on the rear elevation need to withstand the lateral forces, wind etc, or you'll need to frame it.
Opening up the rear elevation has transformed how we use our house, well worth it.
Steve
You are going to have to help me with terminology... the current existing corner if left would be a pillar in the middle of the open plan area. (Well not middle about a third but you get the gist). Thinking of it mostly being glazed with one large set of bifold rather than have the whole 8m or so open up
We are no where near engaging with professionals for quotes, as mentioned above this is trying to get ideas of the art of the possible and ballparks. If it’s something like 30k it’s a no go straight off without even wasting people’s time
It’s two storey.
Okay so its the pier inside the space you want to avoid. That's more tricky depending on how big the space is, but not impossible subject to floor to ceiling clearance and just how big the space will be.
I suspect your 30k might be light depending on what you want in terms of finishes etc.
The steels won't be the expensive bit, the cost will be installing them.
Happy to give you some quick advice if you PM me.
You won't get any prices without a specification/plan from a structural engineer.
So that will be your first ports of call.
I’m not after a specific price. I’m after ballpark ranges for several options of which I think this is likely the most expensive, this is so I can narrow down on what we can do for our budget. Then I’ll go to a structural engineer and pay to get proper plans dawn up, then I’ll get builders in to quote. We are about 2 years away from this point.
Is it just me then that tries to work stuff out roughly before I go spending money getting plans drawn up for something I may not be able to do or afford?
The finger in the air 30k was just for the structural work to getting water tight so walls, roofing and glazing. I was expecting another finger in the air £20k for all the kitchen stuff. Then have a utility and bathroom which I may well do myself depending on what budget is left
The extension isn’t 2 storey, but the bit where the walls need removing is.
Thanks for the offer twistedpencil I’ll drop you a line.
I'm shit at understanding folks posts. Can we have a fag packet type drawing of what you're trying to achieve to look at?
Is it just me then that tries to work stuff out roughly before I go spending money getting plans drawn up for something I may not be able to do or afford?
No, but you're working in the dark somewhat.
If you have a couple of options re how you would like it to look then it won't cost much more to have the structural engineer produce plans/calcs for both versions as much of the time is taken up measuring, etc.
Then you can get a better idea of the cost from a builder to give you a ballpark figure.
Deciding on which option based on just finger in the air numbers can end up costing a lot more than you expected.
For example, we've just replaced a 4m wall with bifolds on a single storey part of the house.
The SE specified a galvanised steel above the new opening.
Getting the piece galvanised doubled the steel cost!
He also pointed out other work that needed doing for building control approval that increased the costs.
Without his plans we were working with incorrect cost assumptions.
You need engineers advice, some may go ott goal posts made from thick steel, 900mm x 900mm x 450mm concrete pads under the existing founds or you may get an easier k9 lintol padstone bedded on the brickwork and two steel beams. A good dose of acrows maybe 10 and someone who knows what they are doing. Some are easy others not so due to the weight of steel or tight space, steps etc
Why galvanise it? No point whatsoever in my mind.
I have a couple of options mocked up in Visio, god knows how to show that on here...
Completely agree, but the SE specified it (I think on the basis that it would be somewhat exposed to the elements) so we had to do it.
He was pretty OTT to be honest but the cost of getting him to modify the plans was more than it cost to galvanise the steel. He also specified some pretty heavy duty mods to the existing purlins but I was using a third party building control company and they were happy to discuss this and we settled on something much more suitable
Totally doable. We removed an external and internal load bearing wall at our old place - you just need a structural engineer to look at it and do the calcs.
I have a couple of options mocked up in Visio, god knows how to show that on here…
Export as an image format, upload to a photo host and then link to them on here.
I can't remember the export options from Visio, but a screen grab would work as well.
I'm looking to avoid a beam / pillar in the middle of the brown sofa and the kitchen island
gap / steel where the dining table is is existing and is currently between our kitchen and conservatory we want to replace.
this design actually reduces the floor plan somewhat as the patio is where an adjourned single garage currently is
Well, everything is do-able if you throw enough money at it. That's going to be a big piece of steel going across the back...... [depending upon the length of it] probable crane job if you don't have access to get it through from the front.
If the beam is too heavy or awkward to lift up and you can't get a hoist in, get the steel supplier to cut the beam into two, plates and lots of bolts glue it together again. Some structural engineers will probably differ
If the beam is too heavy or awkward to lift up and you can’t get a hoist in, get the steel supplier to cut the beam into two, plates and lots of bolts glue it together again. Some structural engineers will probably differ
Did a job for a customer, and the beam turned up from the fabricators with the splice connection (technical name for your description above) fully fitted and bolted.
Kind of missed the point of having it 🙂
Dt they'll be simple bolted connections off the main steel. No drama in that at all. And don't immediately go crane, there are various options these days.
Find a fabricator with a decent sized Hiab
access isn't an issue as we are a corner plot so hopefully that 6is one less problem where the gate in the pic is is currently the entrance to our drive you could pretty much get the flatbed to within a metre of where the steel needs to go
when I find the printout of the as is I'll post it, prob monday if it's not at home. it's not clear but the new steels trace the outline of the secondary storey the rest will all be single storey. above the small square at the top right is our ensuite. where the patio is is our current single garage with an asbestos roof (to add to the price tag...) we could potentially got further to the right. I have some design keeping some of the original walls in situ but it is a compromise
access isn’t an issue as we are a corner plot
I can see that from the photo location info, you may want to delete it and use postimage or similar for images
Cheers for that deleted. New phone, I assumed it was defaulted to not saving location....silly me.
Hi DT78 remember me!
I would gladly call round again at some point, but this time would bring a structural colleague with me who incidentally lives just around the corner from you, and is currently taking the back off his house and building in more steel than seems physically possible as part of a Grand Designs style refurb.
When you are ready, there may be others closer to you, but I'd strongly recommend RM Fabrications in Verwood for any steels that you need.
One would generally design an extension around not having to perform such structural gymnastics, but without a sketch of what you want to do it's hard to make any useful comment.
I’ll sort out some links to secure images tomorrow rather ones that broadcast my address on the net!
We will prob employ an architect closer to the time to come up with some ideas as there are probably several better ways to meet our requirements...
MMM are you the chap who popped round to help me when we first moved in? John isn’t it? I found the main issue in the end, the underlay beneath the laminate in the cloakroom was comepletely soaked and had all types of interesting fungi it was pretty grim. Ripped the lot out. I think the original metal cistern was the main cause of condensation but may have had a leaking lead pipe. Also found an old external drain in the adjoining consverwtory just stuffed with some rock wool and the the laminate put over the top. That was soaking wet too. Sorted that too, along with the dodgy boiler flue!
I would really appreciate a professional eye helping me with what the art of the possible is. So far I have had really bad experiences with trades trying to get reliable people who aren’t trying to rip me off. Not having a scooby makes you an easy target. Is your email the same?
Yep, that was me.
Glad you sorted the other issues.
I'll have a word with our structural guy this week and try and find a time to call by.