It's not for lack of thinking or reading about it either. Properly stuck.
I can't decide either. I'm English.
Find some real people to talk to, not just reading stuff on the internet - there are Yes shops all over the place, probably some No ones too somewhere.
Just go with your gut instinct.
I just don't care. I am half Scottish so I should care a bit.
Not remotely stuck. My mind was set the day the referendum was announced. No amount of manipulated statistics, other peoples opinions or endless Facebook posts (Scotroutes....I'm looking at you 😉 ) will change my mind.
Just eat your cereal.
I Think at the moment I'm not convinced that the existing is broken enough to vote yes by default, and I don't see a need for change for the sake of change. At the same time some of the arguments for independence have an appeal, but they fall far short of convincing me enough.
So I'm in the same boat - can't fully decide for one or the other outright.
Just put the kettle on for a cuppa... it'll soon come to you.
I don't have a say in the matter, but if I did, this would be taken into consideration:
as would this:
Is there a referendum? What's it about? Can't be that important, it would be all over the news.
😉
Now farage is returning. Don't know which side he thinks he's going to aid more.
Just watched Boris. Wow if he does rise to the top spending will be much more londoncentric.
You should still vote, even if you don't agree that either black or white is the answer. Tick both boxes. That way whichever side who loses can't claim an invalid mandate. (Although I am sure they will anyway.)
I was just over in India for a month.
Made me chill out about the referendum. Everyone seems to think it'll all be doom and gloom if it goes the way they don't want.
But it'll not be as bad as a huge proportion of the world's population have it.
50% of people in India don't have a toilet. I'm also pretty sure my cats eat better than 50% of the humans on this planet.
That being said, I'm a Yes voter. I think what we have is good, but that independence can make it better.
No amount of arguing will ever prove Yes is better then No or vice versa though, you just need to weigh up the balance and make a choice.
For me it comes down to political representation and the direction our society in the UK is heading. I'm not interested in the macro economic arguments about the pound etc. For me it's a much bigger thing than just money.
Heart says Yes, head says No. I can see a lot of positives but I've seen a lot of nastiness creeping into it and it's really turning me off, especially from the Yes side.
The evangelical stance from a lot of the Yes crowd does my head in too. I know this shouldn't affect my vote but it does.... 😕
We don't need another thread on this.
Can't decide either. DevoMax for me. Not an option unless you believe the promises that a No vote will give you that. Hm. I'm inherently risk averse, as I'd like to think most Scots are (it's what we're best at really, our reputation and all that)
It's not about the cash, better off, worse off in money terms - that's just numbers and so full of might bed it's not worth the paper or screen it's written on.
Will probably still be slithering on the 18th 🙂
There's evangelical stuff on the No side too swavis 😉
There's evangelical stuff on the No side too swavis
Indeed, maybe it's just the few really preachy Yes voters I've spoken to but it's almost as if they've been taken over by some religious obligation to batter me over the head with it. No thanks....
Heart says Yes, head says No. I can see a lot of positives but I've seen a lot of nastiness creeping into it and it's really turning me off, especially from the Yes side.
Sadly there's lots of nastiness from the No side too - you should see the abuse Salmond and Sturgeon get on Twitter, for instance, and then there's the death threats against Jim Sillars and Alex Salmond, the firebombing of a Yes shop a few nights ago, and the no supporter who kicked a Yes supporting woman in the stomach in Argyle Street.
What it is mostly, I think, is the sectarian idiots transferring their bile onto the referendum.
Sure, tend to agree and I can think of some very specific examples 🙂 I guess when you're trying to change things it does become evangelical as you say, fighting for the status quo doesn't have quite the same impetus somehow.
Vote Yes whats the worse that can happen? You can always come back.
Better to try and fail then never tried at all.
Being English and living in England I'm very, very bored of it now. Please just vote and then stop banging on about it. Stay or go, I couldn't GAS!
You can always come back
doubt it
Around us nearly every "No" placard has been defaced whereas the "Yes" ones are still pristine. It is so varied and over such a wide area that it can't be the same person/people.
I've tried to be level headed about it so far but for some reason the mentality of these Yes supporters is really putting me off. Couple this with the almost Religious-like zeal, bigotry and animosity that the Yes supporters at work put out I feel distinctly uncomfortable with the idea of people like that getting the country they want. I know it isn't particularly rational, but if people like that are for something my gut instinct is that the sensible stance is against them!
and then there's the death threats against Jim Sillars and Alex Salmond, the firebombing of a Yes shop a few nights ago,
Firebombings? 😯
I believe that with the forthcoming departure of Scotland, both the US and Australia have asked if we would take them back.
Firebombings?
Yes - it wasn't especially serious, just a wheelie bin pushed against the front of the shop and set alight.
shackleton, my experience exactly!
i travel all over the country (i drive for citylink coaches) and it is mostly the no placards that have been defaced.
i echo your comments about the almost religious zeal of some yes campainers also.
that being said, i feel that as im going to be ruled by ****ers regardless id rather they were scottish ****ers.
i met salmond once, in the early 90s, tbh i thought he was a ****er, but death threats? really?
out of order imo.
Around us nearly every "No" placard has been defaced whereas the "Yes" ones are still pristine.
I've found the culprits:
[img] 
[/img]
😀
are those jersey cows??
Shackleton - Member
Around us nearly every "No" placard has been defaced whereas the "Yes" ones are still pristine. It is so varied and over such a wide area that it can't be the same person/people.I've tried to be level headed about it so far but for some reason the mentality of these Yes supporters is really putting me off. Couple this with the almost Religious-like zeal, bigotry and animosity that the Yes supporters at work put out I feel distinctly uncomfortable with the idea of people like that getting the country they want. I know it isn't particularly rational, but if people like that are for something my gut instinct is that the sensible stance is against them!
Exactly this!!!
something my gut instinct is that the sensible stance is against them!
Or let them have it and then revel in the profound sense of disappointment they will experience every day for the rest of their lives when bugger all changes (of any significance).
Vote yes. Tell all of your friends.
Devomax is a unicorn. Why would the UK govt give the scots devomax if they return a no vote? Wouldn't make sense.
Vote yes. Tell all of your friends.
Devomax is a unicorn. Why would the UK govt give the scots devomax if they return a no vote? Wouldn't make sense.
Because it is politics. Salmond never wanted full independence, he wanted Devo max. Cameron couldn't give it without lots of problems springing up (Wales, NI, even Cornwall). Hence the yes or no referendum.
If a no vote happens then Salmond can leverage Devomax out of UK govt due to the level of support for Yes and Cameron can look magnanimous without actually giving up anything he wasn't going to eventually anyway. Essentially both get to win.
I'm not sure if you've been alive enough time for this, but think back to the eighties when Thatcher used Scotland as a laboratory for the Poll Tax; introducing it a year earlier, just because she could. Or consider what will happen after a No vote when Cameron is back in Downing Street for another five years; imagine what he will do...
An independent Scotland could avoid this.
Never again... Vote Yes.
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If Scotland goes, can the north east of England come with you? Please?
"Scotland's interest involves joining the euro sooner rather than later. For many years now, the pound sterling has been a millstone round Scotland's neck. Sterling is costing Scotland jobs and prosperity in manufacturing, agriculture and tourism."
😉
miketually - Member
If Scotland goes, can the north east of England come with you? Please?
I think support in the NE for being part of Scotland would be fairly low, at least in the bits I know well.
consider what will happen after a No vote when Cameron is back in Downing Street for another five years; imagine what he will do...
Considering that the powers that westminster has over Scotland have been considerably reduced I'd say very little would happen. As much as I dislike Cameron and his ilk he is no Thatcher. Politics and the mentality of politicians has changed an awful lot since the 80s.
If a no vote happens then Salmond can leverage Devomax out of UK govt due to the level of support for Yes
Why? With the threat of independence gone, Uk govt essentially has nothing to lose.
The referendum was the best threat Salmond had for Devomax. Had he not used it, he'd probably have devomax by now.
Forgive the pun, it's a red herring that Salmond wanted devomax all along prob designed to make him look shrewd in cas ehe loses the vote. Salmond wants independence and if he doesn't get it, he'll likely become irrelevant.
I went to see 'From Scotland With Love' at the weekend,it broke my heart.
As I removed my rose tinted specs and wiped away the tears ,I realised how undecided I still am about the vote.
The reasons that I would vote Yes are as passionate as my reasons for voting No.
The narrow minded idiots campainging on both sides don't make it any easier .
In 3 weeks it'll all be over and we can all go back to whinging over the fact that voter turnouts are low and that not enough people are engaged with politics
[url= https://medium.com/@chrisdeerin/theres-no-such-thing-as-monsters-3cbd145ef932 ]So, empathy and solidarity, the effort to see your opponent’s inner nobility: we’re going to need a great deal of it all in the months ahead[/url]
It was utterly brilliant politicking from salmond, get the other side to campaign for what you want. If you have to give salmond credit for anything it's that imo.it's a red herring that Salmond wanted devomax
