[Closed] Ramadan Mubarak

You seem a bit upset that we beat the middle east when it came to conquering and technological prowess - as you seem fairly focused on one empire being evil.

Anyway, the real reason why we've accumulated lots of wealth - wasn't just land, it's because we started caring less about religion.

The Romans, Mongols and Aztecs voraciously conquered new lands in search of power and wealth — not knowledge. In contrast, European imperialists set out to distant shores in the hope of obtaining new knowledge along with new territories.
James Cook [who went on to discover Australia in a British financed semi-military expedition in the 18th Century] was not the first explorer to think this way. The Portuguese and Spanish voyagers of the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries already did. Prince Henry the Navigator and Vasco da Gama explored the coasts of Africa and, while doing so, seized control of islands and harbours. Christopher Columbus ‘discovered’ America and immediately claimed sovereignty over the new lands for the kings of Spain. Ferdinand Magellan found a way around the world, and simultaneously laid the foundation for the Spanish conquest of the Philippines.

Anyhow, at some point - you have to quit blaming inequality on outside influence and start looking at your own root causes for it.

Gonzy my friend ... in my attempting to fast I have said I'm in for ALL your reason... so this includes, importantly, your religion.

Please could you accept something from mine, the part time church goer that I am.

Turn the other cheek

🙂

Bit of a random article written by a Filipino - but the Phils suffers from exactly the same issues - blaming outsiders continually. Worth thinking about, if you consider the west to be the major root of inequality.

http://www.getrealphilippines.com/blog/2015/09/did-spanish-colonial-rule-doom-the-philippines-think-again/

Harari asserts that the key cultural feature of European colonial powers that enabled them to conquer the world lay in their thirst for knowledge which they satisfied by mounting audacious enterprises of exploration of the unknown. Harari writes in Sapiens, “European imperialism was entirely unlike all other imperial projects in history.” He continues…
The Romans, Mongols and Aztecs voraciously conquered new lands in search of power and wealth — not knowledge. In contrast, European imperialists set out to distant shores in the hope of obtaining new knowledge along with new territories.

James Cook [who went on to discover Australia in a British financed semi-military expedition in the 18th Century] was not the first explorer to think this way. The Portuguese and Spanish voyagers of the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries already did. Prince Henry the Navigator and Vasco da Gama explored the coasts of Africa and, while doing so, seized control of islands and harbours. Christopher Columbus ‘discovered’ America and immediately claimed sovereignty over the new lands for the kings of Spain. Ferdinand Magellan found a way around the world, and simultaneously laid the foundation for the Spanish conquest of the Philippines.

Indeed, while the other powerful cultures of the time convinced themselves that they knew everything and looked inward into their comfy wealth and prestige, Europeans underwent what Harari calls “a revolution of ignorance”. By admitting that they did not know the answers to a lot of the important questions of the time, Europeans embraced a spirit of exploration and inquiry into the unknown.

We see today the same stark difference between native Filipinos who happily wallow in wretchedness and the exasperated mostly-expatriate observers who can only watch and facepalm themselves at the obvious solutions to that wretchedness that Filipinos choose to ignore. The inherent inability of Filipinos to do things differently in order to achieve a different outcome that has long baffled observers seems to stem from the same condition that afflicted the Aztecs and Mayans — a lack of curiosity over possibilities that there may be bigger and better ways out there worth exploring.

Nowhere is this more evident in Filipinos’ choice of presidential candidates in their national elections. The banal sameness of the political debate — and the options to choose from — election in and election out is astounding. Filipino voters seem to be totally disinclined to even consider that there may be other options. Instead, they imprison their thinking within the same fatal comfort zone that their politics have languished in over the last several decades.
These observations of the way Filipinos continue to choose the easy path of muddling along in mediocrity leads us to a confronting reality — that Filipinos are too lazy to think much less physically explore the uncharted.

No guts, no glory, as the old cliché goes. Glory belongs to those who beg to differ. To the Filipino belongs only the same poverty brought upon by a wholesale lack of curiosity.

Come on people, we can look past our own views on religion for a few days. Gonzy's going without pudding to get extra gold stars from the big chief.. Yay!

What's David Icke up to these days?? I bet he can fast like a good'un

Northwind - Member
and we're off.

😆 Yeap! it is going off!

Much more interesting conversation in me opinion. Woohoo!

--------------------------

I am sure that in the age of interweb if you do not want to be commented upon, vice versa, you simply do not publish information or your views whatever they may be.

If you do publish your views etc then be prepared to defend them but try not get upset, hurt, or overly sensitive because others do not agree with you.

The world has nearly 6 billion people (majority ZM!) so I do not expect you lot to think the same.

See! Now I want to join the party ... arrghhh ... 😆

Gonzy my friend ... in my attempting to fast I have said I'm in for ALL your reason... so this includes, importantly, your religion.

Please could you accept something from mine, the part time church goer that I am.

Turn the other cheek

he has a hatred for Muslims and its been blatantly obvious from this thread and many more in the past...he nearly reeled me in and i shouldnt rise to his baiting...sorry to everyone else who has commented here

i'll never let someone like Uncle Tom trully get under my skin. he can troll as much as he likes with his hated filled islamophobic and zionist clap trap.

day 4 update:
i felt a lot fresher yesterday. the tiredness has all but gone. i didnt get round to weighing myself...that will happen this weekend.
i'm going to mark yesterday as being a one off in that i nearly got reeled in by the attempt to derail this thread.

thanks for those who have said they're willing to take up the Ramadan challenge on Monday.
depending on where you are located sunrise and sunset times will vary. according to official sources the sunrise times are at between 4 and 5am...however we use a slightly different sunrise time (more in line with the nautical twilight start time) this is because it falls in line with the time from which the first prayer of the day can be offered. fasting has to commence before that time has started.
but fir the purpose of this and the fact that i dont want to throw you into the deep end too much we will go off the standard sunrise times.
so from around 4.40am on Monday morning no food, no drink, no smoking and no nookie...until sunset which is around 9.20pm (these times are for london so you will need to check your local times)

it would be interesting and good if you all could post up on here on how your day is going, how the fasting is affecting you (physically and mentally) etc.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ramadan-2016-fasting-sunset-time-sunrise-time-a7073261.html

http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/london

just to give you an idea of the stages of detox your body goes through during Ramadan:

Detoxification Stage 1 (Day 1 To Day 2) p

On the first day of fasting, the blood sugar level drops. The heart slows and blood pressure is reduced. Glycogen is pulled from the muscle causing some weakness. The first wave of cleansing is usually the worst. Headaches, dizzinessnausea, bad breath, and a heavily coated tongue are signs of the first stage of cleansing. Hunger can be the most intense in this period.

Detoxification Stage 2 (Day 3 To Day 7)

Fats, composed of transformed fatty acids, are broken down to release glycerol from the gliceride molecules and are converted to glucose. The skin may become oily as rancid oils are purged from the body. People with problem-free skin may have a few days of pimples or even a boil. The body embraces the fast and the digestive system is able to take a much-needed rest, focusing all of its energies on cleansing and healing. White blood cell and immune system activity increases. You may feel pain in your lungs. The cleansing organs and the lungs are in the process of being repaired. The breath is still foul and the tongue coated. Within the intestine, the colon is being repaired and impacted feces on the intestinal wall start to loosen.

Detoxification Stage 3 (Day 8 to Day 15)

You will experience enhanced energy, clear-mindedness and feel better. On the downside, old injuries may become irritated and painful. This is a result of the body's increased ability to heal during fasting. If you had broken your arm 10 years before, there is scar tissue around the break. At the time of the break, the body's ability to heal was directly related to lifestyle. If you lived on a junk-food diet, the body's natural healing ability was compromised. During fasting, the body's healing process is at optimum efficiency. As the body scours for dead or damaged tissue, the lymphocytes enter the older, damaged tissue secreting substances to dissolve the damaged cells. These substances irritate the nerves in the surrounding region and cause a reoccurrence of aches from previously injured areas that may have disappeared years earlier. The pain is good as the body is completing the healing process. The muscles may become tight and sore due to toxin irritation. The legs can be the worst affected, as toxins accumulate in the legs. Cankers are common in this stage due to the excessive bacteria in the mouth. Daily gargling with salt and water will prevent or heal cankers.

Detoxification Stage 4 (Day 16 to Day 30)

The body is completely adapted to the fasting process. There is more energy and clarity of mind. Cleansing periods can be short with many days of feeling good in between. There are days when the tongue is pink and the breath is fresh. The healing work of the organs is being completed. After the detoxification mechanisms have removed the causative agent or render it harmless, the body works at maximum capacity in tissue proliferation to replace damaged tissue. After day 20, the mind is affected. Heightened clarity and emotional balance are felt at this time. Memory and concentration improve.

What's your source for that nonsense, out of interest?

I'm not going to pick it all apart but here's one from the beginning.

The first wave of cleansing is usually the worst. Headaches, dizzinessnausea, bad breath, and a heavily coated tongue are signs of the first stage of cleansing.

This is the result of a build-up of ketones, ie your body going into ketosis. It's not "cleansing", it's eating itself because you've starved it of calories.

Foul breath, chest pain, headaches, exhaustion, boils, spots, greasy skin/hair, sounds wonderful. I've a rubbish diet, but that sounds worse than a rubbish diet to be honest. Plus, I can understand the no food thing (to a point) but no water? That just seems dangerous and/or seriously limiting. Basically reduces you to a level of physical activity that doesn't require rehydration. Can't be good for your kidneys either. I wonder if Ramadan has anything to do with the higher incidence of diabetes in the Asian population? Or whether it's just a general diet thing, or genetic predisposition.

Gonzy, all the best in your endeavour, I think you're mad to put yourself through it, but I appreciate its really important to you.

Edit; what was that about not swallowing your own saliva? That's bonkers! (And impossible, I think) where'd that come from?

I'm not going to pick it all apart but here's one from the beginning.

this came from two of my friends...both of whome are GP's...they never said it to be written in 100% scientific jargon...but more in laymans terms but they say its reasonably accurate

but please do pick it apart Dr Cougar. with your medical degree i'm sure you'll do a grand job of putting it right from a scientific point f view and from an actual experienced point of view.

I wonder if Ramadan has anything to do with the higher incidence of diabetes in the Asian population?

the diabetes issue amongst asians is down to their general lifestyles and diets...ramadan happens once a year for 1 month...it can hardly be attributed to an asian person becoming diabetic.

it can hardly be attributed to an asian person becoming diabetic.

v8ninety - its tough..but its manageable. the lack of food or water doesnt bother me. the disruption to my sleeping patterns is another matter...it makes things a bit trickier but its a small price to pay IMO

i can still do pretty much all the normal stuff...even riding although i'd only push myself to about 70% instead of giving the full beans

as for the post i put abut the detox stages....i've been doing this ramadan fasting malarky for 30 years and with each year all that "nonsense"actually makes sense and i can confirm the body does go through those changes

Over on the David Icke forums there are some experienced fasters who seem to think fasting can cure anything. There are some genuinely helpful tips on there for those trying it for the first time. Some slightly quirky information too but I don't think that will worry anyone religious 😉

David Icke seems to be doing really well now if anyone was interested.

they never said it to be written in 100% scientific jargon

"Jargon" isn't the issue, "science" or rather lack of it is the issue.

I understand you fasting due to your religious beliefs and whilst I don't share those beliefs I applaud you for having the commitment to it and I don't doubt that you'll get some spiritual feel-good wellbeing out of it.

But if you're fasting for "detox" reasons then, well, you're still in the grounds of belief systems, the body simply does not work like that. You can no more "detox" by fasting than you can align your chakras, focus your chi or expel miasmas. It's pseudoscience, and potentially dangerous pseudoscience at that.

Point I'm trying to make is, if you're doing this, please do it for the right reasons.

i can confirm the body does go through those changes

I dare say those symptoms manifest, yes. That doesn't mean it's "cleansing" or "detoxifying" anything, it's mostly trying to adapt to survive.

this came from two of my friends...both of whome are GP's

I expect the GMC would take a keen interest in them giving out that sort of advice.

he has a hatred for Muslims and its been blatantly obvious from this thread and many more in the past...he nearly reeled me in and i shouldnt rise to his baiting...sorry to everyone else who has commented here

i'll never let someone like Uncle Tom trully get under my skin. he can troll as much as he likes with his hated filled islamophobic and zionist clap trap.

Hate Muslims? I just dislike religion and religious circle jerks.

But I did manage to goad out of you, your rather strong blame ridden feelings for the west - coupled with your accusation that I'm a zionist because I support a two state solution in Palestine. It could possibly be viewed that it is you that is the one filled with hate.

I can't believe that you are denying being a pro-Zionist anti-Palestinian Islamophobe.

Who would have thought it?

This is the thing that is really starting to annoy me about this forum.
Does Gonzy go on everyone else's threads telling them they're shit because they're not a Muslim?
Why do you feel the need to do it then, Tom?
I get it, you don't like religion, and no-one is asking you to.
It would be the polite, grown up thing for you to not comment on threads if all you have to contribute is the same negativity you've plastered all over so many threads before.

Also, Gonzy, I'm in for Monday.

A mate of mine often puts pictures of his dinner on Facebook and it's desperately dull. Now we have someone writing about not having their dinner. Duller still.

You're reading it, does that make you a dullard?

Hate Muslims? I just dislike [s]religion[/s][i]Muslims[/i] and religious circle jerks.

FIFY

your posting history would suggest otherwise. it seems you only seem to comment of stuff relating to one particular religion and when you do its quite often derogatory or you're trying to stir up hated from others

But I did manage to goad out of you, your rather strong blame ridden feelings for the west - coupled with your accusation that I'm a zionist because I support a two state solution in Palestine. It could possibly be viewed that it is you that is the one filled with hate.

i may be blaming the west but its based on fact...and its pretty much widely supported by a fair few users on here...its just you, ninfan and jambalaya who see it differently...where you and ninfan are provocatively insulting in some your comments at least jambalaya, for all his delusions, shows a bit of respect towards other faiths.
lets not do the palestine 2 state solution on here...youve proven in the past that youre a zionist advocate with your views and when you get asked any question you refuse to answer them and descend into your typical whataboutery before you start accusing people of being anti-Semitic because they choose to criticise the Israeli government policy...which in the past you've accused me of and then gone quiet when i asked you to back up your accusation

once again youre trying to derail the thread and in doing so you're openly admitting that you're doing it deliberately...so that out of spite because of my religion or my heritage.

once again i wonder why i am even wasting my time on you

I can't believe that you are denying being a pro-Zionist anti-Palestinian Islamophobe.

Who would have thought it?

Hey Ernie, weren't you and Junky banging on about the overuse of the term antisemitism?

Pot meet kettle 😀

i may be blaming the west but its based on fact...

😆

Does Gonzy go on everyone else's threads telling them they're shit because they're not a Muslim?
Why do you feel the need to do it then, Tom?

I forgot that a forum with relatively open rules is actually a private space as opposed to what their name implies...a public forum. Forgive me. I mean, if you want to circle jerk about how great your religion is without interference - and how it gives you empathy for the poor.... it would be great if there was some kind of private messaging system. I can't think what that might be called. E-mail?

As was said by Hoffer - "The vanity of the selfless, even those who practice utmost humility, is boundless."

It's not my religion, I'm a Buddhist.

Pot meet kettle

So you think it's like the pot calling the kettle black because I am also denying being a pro-Zionist anti-Palestinian Islamophobe.

I love it when people get so agitated and wound up that without thinking they spurt out nonsensical gibberish.

I forgot that a forum with relatively open rules is actually a private space as opposed to what their name implies...a public forum. Forgive me. I mean, if you want to circle jerk about how great your religion is without interference - and how it gives you empathy for the poor.... it would be great if there was some kind of private messaging system. I can't think what that might be called. E-mail?

Equally there's no requirement for you (or woppitt or whoever) to come on these threads and be a prick.

Why do you feel the need to do it then, Tom?

obviously hes a lonely little keyboard warrior. he needs to go on other peoples threads and be insensitive, rude, arrogant, a general ass-hat and trouble maker. its the only way he gets noticed...it must give him a sense of self worth and importance...helps him feels manly for 15 minutes

i actually pity him

Equally there's no requirement for you (or woppitt or whoever) to come on these threads and be a prick.

Considering how many people have been silenced over the centuries, to give religion the privilege of it's historical unchallenged smug self-righteousness, I consider it my duty to have some fun whenever I see it.

Never been to a country where if you say anything about religion, you might get lynched have we? So I couldn't give two shits who it upsets, religious insularity is the reason why countries like the Philippines are basket cases.

Really, which countries have I been to?

It would be the polite, grown up thing

Wow! You must be new here, right?

Though I agree with you, one of the more annoying aspects of this and other forums.

say what you like tom...if it makes you feel a little bit bigger
i doubt you'd have the balls to say the stuff you type face to face...so keep hiding behind your keyboard

i think everyone else should ignore Tom...his attitude and opinions are not welcome here.
ignore him and soon he will disappear and take his islamophobic crap with him

Easy now Gonzy, you will lose those Gold stars rightfully earned.. big chief is a watching my friend.
Just concentrate on the last few hours of the day and you'll be fine

I don't think Gonzy wants religion to have special treatment on the forum to be fair.

I bumped into my old best friend in Huddersfield recently. He told me how he was now very religious (his Dad was a Iman/sadly passed away).

His faith, his happiness touched me and made me feel very happy for him. As we were close when we were younger.

To see his passion, his love for Islam made me grin.

Sorry if that offends some. Faith can be a beautiful thing. It's when it's subverted by man with an ulterior motive that it becomes wrong. Just because you don't believe/have faith shouldn't mean you should sling crap/laugh at or be disrespectful to others who don't share your views. Sometimes I think grumpy Atheists can be zealous.

Peace.

I don't think Gonzy wants religion to have special treatment on the forum to be fair.

<mod>
Just as well, cos it's not happening.

However, what is going to happen is I'm going to start moderating thread disruption more aggressively cos I'm getting very bored of it now and it's making this forum not a very nice place at times.

Kindly stay on topic; if you want to debate Palestine, start another thread.
</mod>

gonzy,

Out of interest why do you have to announce to the world (interweb is the world) that you are fasting?

😛

Because this is a forum, where people talk about things..
Maybe?

Just as well, cos it's not happening.

khani - Member
Because this is a forum, where people talk about things..
Maybe?

I get your point chewkw, but just lately it seems impossible to have a thread that doesn't descend into nastiness and arguing. We know that some of you don't like religion, or Muslims, or whatever. It might be nice, just for a while, if we could just stop going round and round with the same argument.
This forum used to be a right laugh, but I'm finding less and less to laugh about on here.

If we all had chewkw take on this there'd be no point starting topics.

fin25 - Member
I get your point chewkw, but just lately it seems impossible to have a thread that doesn't descend into nastiness and arguing. We know that some of you don't like religion, or Muslims, or whatever. It might be nice, just for a while, if we could just stop going round and round with the same argument.
This forum used to be a right laugh, but I'm finding less and less to laugh about on here.

It is not a matter of one being rude to another etc but rather it is logical for both to disagree with each other as that is their natural state. i.e. Creation Vs. Science.

hora - Member
If we all had chewkw take on this there'd be no point starting topics

i doubt you'd have the balls to say the stuff you type face to face...so keep hiding behind your keyboard

Islamic thread with veiled threats of violence. Awkward. 😯

Why? Ever tried this yourself? I imagine you'd be abit tetchy at folk on the net too.

That's not a threat of violence. That's a statement that people can be much bigger dicks when they have the anonymity of a username on a forum, than they'd ever dare to be in a face-to-face conversation.

hora - Member
Why? Ever tried this yourself? I imagine you'd be abit tetchy at folk on the net too.

bencooper - Member
That's not a threat of violence. That's a statement that people can be much bigger dicks when they have the anonymity of a username on a forum, than they'd ever dare to be in a face-to-face conversation.

Crikey ... who is saying what ... (shake head continue to think of what to cook for dinner ... while watching Grand Design and perhaps play Slither )