[Closed] Ramadan Mubarak

I wasn't replying to you, dude 😉

Chewkw do you have a problem with me announcing on the interweb that it's Ramadan and I'm fasting?
Maybe I'm doing it to raise awareness and understanding for those who wish to know more.
Why do you post the stuff you do on the interweb?
There's a way of expressing an opposing opinion that doesn't have to be offensive or inappropriate....its called being civil...but sadly that is becoming less of a norm as more people take to a trolling style...anyone would think this was a discussion board off the Daily Mail's website
I'm not asking for special treatment or pity either....I don't mind a debate but when there are some who will try to prevent this with their attempts at derailling the topic or trying to stir up trouble for their own amusement... I think it's those who do this that deserve the pity
Toms behaviour on here is to stir it up and cause trouble. I reckon it's because he is an islamophobe. He's demonstrated that on plenty of occasions in his comments on other threads.
He's even deliberately started threads to try and goad people into an argument...he's even admitted to doing this on here
But like I said I really do pity him..

bencooper - Member
I wasn't replying to you, dude

😆 Okay, as you are and continue with your interesting conversation.

(back to thinking what to cook for dinner ... )

We can agree to disagree :0) It's my 'Belief' that special treatment is being given/requested to religion on this thread.

If you'd care to look back on my output on previous religion threads you'll quickly realise the ludicrousness of your belief.

As for "requested," absolutely categorically not.

Where I'm coming from is that someone's stuck their head above the parapet to have a discussion on a topic most of us have little or no exposure to, and many are against from various angles. I think it's more beneficial, educational, interesting, to actually discuss that rather than yelling "yes but what about the Ottoman empire?!" over someone who's chosen to try and engage.

Personally, I abhor organised religion. But I find it [i]fascinating[/i] to talk about. Shouting someone down achieves nothing other than alienation.

Hmmm, unfortunately not all Muslims are like Gonzy, had one on our wing today asking for a lighter from another prisoner. This was at lockup at noon. Can't see him seeing it through.

And Gonzy, for all that I've just said, you're a credit to your faith (and for balance there's a number of Xtians on here also, Ro5ey leaps to mind). I love discussing this stuff with both of you because it's always civil and interesting.

Personally, I abhor organised religion. But I find it fascinating to talk about. Shouting someone down achieves nothing other than alienation

Agreed. I'm an atheist and I've said before that I think the world would be better if religion had never been invented*, but I still find it fascinating and i think everyone has the right to believe what they like as long as it doesn't harm others.

I also think this forum is very white, male, and middle class, and so having a wider range of people in here is a good thing.

*and it was Christians who went all more-offended-than-thou when I said that.

Enhft - how is that a veiled threat of violence?
Like bencooper said it's a statement that people can be much bigger dicks when they have the anonymity of a username on a forum, than they'd ever dare to be in a face-to-face conversation.

gonzy - Member
Chewkw do you have a problem with me announcing on the interweb that it's Ramadan and I'm fasting?

I have no problem whatsoever with you announcing whatever you wish but then if you cannot take the heat, vice versa, then the fun is over.

You have to defend your views and so do they.

The more engagement there is the more interesting the thread will be otherwise it's just the obvious.

Thanks Cougar. Apologies if I went off on one at you before....that's the toxic effect Toms behaviour has had on this thread

Chewkw - Yeah but some people can't engage in a civil discussion without resorting to slander and insults...I don't wish to lower myself to that level

bencooper - Member

That's not a threat of violence. That's a statement that people can be much bigger dicks when they have the anonymity of a username on a forum, than they'd ever dare to be in a face-to-face conversation.

Interesting that he should interpret it as "a threat of violence" when most people are likely to see it as a reference to intellectual cowardice.

But then of course he still desperately wants to suggest that any cordiality extended to gonzy on this thread is possibly due to "the fear of violence". So he has an obvious agenda.

unfortunately not all Muslims are like Gonzy,

Of course they aren't, they're all people. Not all Muslims / Christians / Men / Vegetarians / Lesbians / Cucumbers are like (something you do or don't have a problem with).

Religion gives plenty of people convenient excuses to be variously horrible to folk who aren't like them. Whether they turn out that way or not is a combination of a number of factors. Where it gets dangerous is groupthink, a community where everyone has been brought up not to disagree with each other; where potentially the entire populace doesn't believe in an idea but they all think everyone else does so no-one's prepared to suggest change.

Islam is visibly quite scary to the West in this manner, because factions of it is still killing people who dare to challenge the status quo. But "all" Muslims, or even arguably "most" Muslims is just lazy rhetoric from people who simply don't like brown people.

"unfortunately not all Muslims are like Gonzy" - no, they aren't. But is he (she?) representative or unusal?

gonzy - Member
Chewkw - Yeah but some people can't engage in a civil discussion without resorting to slander and insults...I don't wish to lower myself to that level

Islam is visibly quite scary to the West in this manner, because factions of it is still killing people who dare to challenge the status quo.

Well that's not true. "The West" as excellent relations with the overwhelming majority of "Muslim countries", one is even a NATO member.

What people find [i]quite scary[/i] are armed people who go around killing other people.

And for that reason many people find the West [i]quite scary.[/i]

Thanks Cougar. Apologies if I went off on one at you before

If you did I missed it, so [s]you got away with it[/s] we're good.

"unfortunately not all Muslims are like Gonzy" - no, they aren't. But is he (she?) representative or unusal?

Gonzy is a he and in my personal experience Muslims are remarkably nice people. But that's quite possibly due to the fact that I show them respect when I interact with them. I sure if I had enfht's attitude I probably wouldn't find them quite that pleasant.

Well that's not true.

Well, it is. Someone was killed only a couple of weeks ago for supporting someone else's view of moderate Islam. I don't remember exact details, it's been a long week and I'm tired and want to watch Big Brother, but I can trawl back to find out if you really don't believe me.

And no, it's almost certainly not representative of Islam as a whole; on a large scale there are "excellent relations" but there's a degree of scaremongering. I used the word "visible" for a reason; it's what people see, and what some Western media latches on to in order to feed that.

Oh, wait, it was on the back of the election of London's mayor.

(Are we derailing again, do I need to ban myself?)

Well, it is. Someone was killed only a couple of weeks ago for supporting someone else's view of moderate Islam. I don't remember exact details, it's been a long week and I'm tired and want to watch Big Brother, but I can trawl back to find out if you really don't believe me.

No I believe you. But that's not what you said. You said "Islam is visibly quite scary to the West". I don't think it is, despite that tragic incident in Scotland which you refer to.

But is he (she?) representative or unusal?

Not knowing Gonzy I'd say representative. From what he (she?) has said.

What I inferred is that it's not unusual for Muslims (in prison) to blag the Ramadan food & have a big Eid feast but not stick anywhere near the 'guidelines' of Islam.
Like you said,

they're all people. Not all Muslims / Christians / Men / Vegetarians / Lesbians / Cucumbers are like (something you do or don't have a problem with).

Although I don't know where cucumbers come into it.

A serious question for Gonzy because I'm interested - how are dawn and dusk defined nowadays? I've always liked the traditional definition, being able to tell the difference between black and white threads, but is there a modern more precise measure? Or is it done from sunrise and sunset times?

Although I don't know where cucumbers come into it

You obviously don't remember the bloody Cucumber vs Courgette wars of the Middle Ages.

(Are we derailing again, do I need to ban myself?)

No just go and stand on the naughty step for 20 minutes and think about what you've done 😉

 

Apologies if it generates negative feelings for phobics and trolls but Ramadan Mubarak to everyone. 🙂

You said "Islam is visibly quite scary to the West". I don't think it is

Of course it is. Whether it's [i]justifiably[/i] scary is another matter. It could be benign and still scary, it's all about perception.

You obviously don't remember the bloody Cucumber vs Courgette wars of the Middle Ages.

And more recently the increasing incidence of drive-by fruitings.

"The West" is an awfully big thing, and also includes many Muslims - I think most people in the West are refined enough to find Islamists scary without applying that to all Muslims. At least I optimistically hope so.

And more recently the increasing incidence of drive-by fruitings

[img] [/img]

Btw perhaps I should qualify this comment I previously made :

I sure if I had enfht's attitude I probably wouldn't find them quite that pleasant.

by pointing out that even in the face of hostility Muslims can still be remarkably nice people. As this excellent example shows :

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/27/york-mosque-protest-tea-biscuits ]York mosque counters EDL protest with tea, biscuits and football [/url]

[b][i]Around half a dozen people arrived for the protest, promoted online by supporters of the EDL. A St George's flag was nailed to the wooden fence in front of the mosque.

However, after members of the group accepted an invitation into the mosque, tensions were rapidly defused over tea and plates of custard creams, followed by an impromptu game of football.[/i][/b]

Of course it could be just "the fear of violence" which caused the Muslims at the mosque to extend cordiality to the EDL members. Although I suspect not.

It's a mix of the two Bencooper. Sunset can be quite easily defined as when it's visibly obvious the sun will set. Sunrise is a bit trickier. You may recall that I've said that after 2.30am or thereabouts I can no longer eat even though sunrise is not officially until around 4.30am. That is because the time is calculated off a method similar to how the nautical twilight is calculated so therefore the morning prayer can be performed some time before the sun actually rises. There is a caveat here that says you cannot perform this prayer in the 20 minutes before or after the actual sunrise. Therefore it is permitted to perform it before and because the time is the intention to fast is made before this prayer eating has to stop earlier that the official sunrise.

No fruitings yet, It's still daylight!

Of course it is. Whether it's justifiably scary is another matter. It could be benign and still scary, it's all about perception.

I'm sorry "the West" are individuals? Well ok I guess many people find Islam quite scary. Although personally I don't find it in the least bit scary.

In fact I would rather have devote Muslims as neighbours than some alcoholic halfwits who have never seen the inside of a mosque.

Interesting, so does everyone do their own calculations, or is there a standard set of tables calibrated for the right latitude?

I think this, along with the facing Mecca thing, explains why Arabs were so good at astronomy and mathematics in the Middle Ages.

It's gone a bit civil here again...."Puts the ray gun back"

You have a ray gun? Typical violent Muslim 😉

If you'd care to look back on my output on previous religion threads you'll quickly realise the ludicrousness of your belief.

As for "requested," absolutely categorically not.

1) Your moderating behaviour on many threads certainly isn't/wasn't as aggressive/attentive on those as you have decided to be on this one which would either mean a change of behaviour or special treatment.
Other hypocritical posters are definitely requesting special treatment on this thread while being happy to watch other threads resort to slanging matches without any 'peace to all men' type comments (sometimes being the name callers themselves)

2) We are discussing religion so forms of proof do not compromise my 'Belief' :0) however ludicrous.

David Icke seems to think there is trouble at the top of the established religions, I also watched his latest vid and he explains how he had to dig deep and keep fighting the fight to get his message across to the masses

I would imagine this is the attitude needed for fasting within the harder parts of the day. Dig deep and keep on keeping on

The times for prayers and sunrise and sunset are calibrated based on individual location. Not not so much as a very specific location...but for say the largest urban conurbation in the area. So Birmingham will have times specific to its last action and the surrounding towns will either follow those times or make slight calculated adjustments

Interesting, cheers.

Well ok I guess many people find Islam quite scary. Although personally I don't find it in the least bit scary.

Islam itself isn't/shouldn't be scary, It's the peabrained ****tards who go in the name of Islam that I find [s]scary[/s] odd.
There's probably the odd other religionists who are prepared to kill any non believers of their religion as well I imagine.

Some lengthy rules [url= http://www.sultan.org/fasting.html ]HERE[/url] for those genuinely interested.

You have a ray gun? Typical violent Muslim

It doesn't work though....the cheap alibaba lipo batteries keep going pop 😆

I don't often post in this type of thread but have been driven to it by a mixture of anger and IPA. What started off as a genuinely interesting insight into the practices of a significant proportion of the worlds population has been repeatedly attacked in an attempt to derail it. Perhaps all the genuinely interested people can stay here for future updates and all the others can start their own thread titled "people who have differing beliefs and practices than my own confuse and scare me".

Theocb- I'm genuinely impressed that you went to the trouble of finding that link. It's very informative and articulates some of the finer points that I can't elaborate on or don't know enough about....well done and thanks!