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New central heating going in incl rads, I've got a house which is noticeably colder downstairs than upstairs (2 upstairs floors), top floor being warmest. I'd like to control the rads throughout the house. Currently looks like Evohome and now Tado (also Heat Genius, but their hardware looks cosmetically a bit 1970's naff).
So it seems you install a smart thermostat which talks to the boiler, then smart radiator thermostats which control the temp in 'other' rooms. All can be controlled using your phone, either by you, IFTTT, location etc. Probably worth noting that work dictates occupancy of the house is completely random, hourly, daily, weekly, so some form of smart control is wanted, but def not the learning type.
I'd like to hear general experiences please, but have some questions, I don't quite get how the whole thing works in tandem if the smart thermostat turns on/off the boiler and the rad thermostats only turn on/off/up/down the rads. Do you have to just make sure the main smart Thermostat is in the coldest place in the house? Lets say you have the smart thermostat downstairs, but light up the wood burning stove, is that going to completely turn off the central heating and maybe cause cold spots upstairs because you can't control rads when the boiler has been turned off. Or am I just not getting how it all works?
If you have smart TRVs on the rads then it shouldn't matter where the smart thermostat is. If a radiator needs warming up, the TRV will tell the thermostat to spark up the boiler.
But if you only have a smart thermostat then you will need to think about placement if you have a wood burner.
Tado here. It's great.
For evohome, the main controller can be a thermostat (so with nothing else it'd work as well as the likes of Hive) but doesn't have to be.
Really you need one of their TRVs on every radiator to get per-room control, and the boiler fires up when any room demands heat. If you have rooms without the evohome TRVs then they'll warm up when anything else calls for heat.
I'm still researching but for evohome stuff Honeywell have some good training stuff on their website (intended for people selling or installing this stuff) which goes through the ways it can be set up. It seems very flexible but pretty expensive to get the kind of control you want.
OK main question answered thanks.
I'm not too hung up on cost, within reason, I'm just trying to get exactly what I want first time, buy once buy right and all that. TBH I'm not looking to recoup the cost particularly.
torsoinalake, do you have any Tado smart radiator thermostats installed? AND reading reviews, there's some talk about limited range of the internet bridge, have you found this a problem?
I have the slightly older evohome so can't control the system from my phone. However, main unit can be the thermostat, just put somewhere as per a standard wireless thermostat. The trvs work like normal trvs but with the ability to strike up the boiler when each room requires it. Obviously if you have non evohome trvs or rads without trvs ther will also get heat when the boiler starts. You can set different zones and have a single trv or several in the zone, each zone has its own schedule.
I like it.
No TRVs. Ours is one of the first iterations. No problems at all with connectivity.
I don't think you'll find anyone with Tado smart radiator controllers installed at the moment - from my understanding they are due to be delivered around the end of the month.
With an ( old-fashioned ??) Tado install you had one thermostat and that was it, with the radiator controllers I understand there is a thermostat in each controller, giving you much finer control of the heating in different rooms. As I have a shared boiler, it is the only option for me.
definitely not the learning type
Why ?
The learning part generally means that it will, over time work out how much your house warms up naturally on a sunny/not so sunny day. Tado then uses that and your location(s) to decide when the heating goes on. With my mum's Tado it is always nice to come home and find the boiler running, ensuring that the rooms are up to temp for your home coming.
Torsoinalake, and the phone app? do you rate it? AND the proximity/location-based intelligent stuff which they make such a big thing of, do you rate it?
OP - I see you've got the main questions answered, but I'll be a bit evangelical for a minute if that's OK.
I've the later generation evohome - it's very very good, but with a pretty clunky user interface (think "if Garmin made heating systems"). The ability to heat the house selectively at different times, and the over-ride it via a smartphone seemed revolutionary at first, but then we got used to it. We've just taken on a second home (long story) with a modern but "dumb" heating system and it seems crazily backwards in comparison.
Like you the routines in our house are ever-changing so a "learning" system would not work at all. I've yet to link the Evhohome to IFTTT, but will get around to it - then for example if I come home from the office early to dial into a meeting from home in the afternoon the heating will kick in as soon as I've left the office. I can do that now, but have to (a) remember and (b) have an internet connection on the phone. I personally don't find a cold house for 20 mins to be an issue - just don't take my coat off immediately but mu better half hates it - her automatic solution would be to leave the heating on 24/7 just in case she comes home early one day - Evohome & IFTTT together means we have the best of both worlds (miserly and comfortable).
When I say "learning" isn't useful to me, I mean learning our useage patterns. What it does do very well is learn how quickly each room heats up & cools down, so optimises the heating "on" and "off" times to suit. This factors int the local weather, as the internet connectivity allows it access to the weather forecast.
The honeywell home app is functional but clunky (think "Garmin" again) - but the IFTTT link means it's as configurable as you like.
definitely not the learning type
Why ?
Because my work rotas are so random daily, weekly and monthly, I just don't see how any system could predict or learn when I would be in the house.
Ahh - I understand regarding randomly being at home.
Tado is location based, so it turns on the heating when it detects that you are coming home, it also does the IFTTT thing, but I haven't used that aspect.
I fitted it to my mum's place summer 2014 and one of the big selling points for me was that it should be practically invisible and not lead to any calls to "tech support". It simply sits in the background and does its thing and the house is always at the right temp.
Tado app is fine, has pretty graphs if you want to look at them. To be honest it is set and forget. Heating is on when we get home, and don't have to worry about heating an empty house. Would work perfectly for your situation.
If your going to go for a system like this, go for evohome home. The others havent been out as long and I dont know how well tested they are compared to evohome.
Ive also been told by honeywell that theirs is the only one that can provide boiler interlock as they have the patents on two way communication and actively sue any who says theirs does.
Ive got evohome home in my house and the customers Ive fit it for are really happy with the systems that theyve got.
If you need any help and advice Rich at the evohome shop will talk you through any questions you have.
I personally don't find a cold house for 20 mins to be an issue - just don't take my coat off immediately
markwsf, for many years I've been happily turning the heating on when I get home, turning it off when I go to bed, turning it on when I get up and turning it off when I leave the house. For years I've happily lived with the 20 mins cold house issue. I'm never going to save money against that, I won't even try to justify £600 just to have it 'intelligently' heat the house 20 mins before I arrive home. Lets say, when I was 20 I was in the fortunate position to do the mid life crisis expensive sports car / classic car /stupid expensive HiFi / champagne bath stuff. Now I'm at a point in life where I want to spend money on the house, some of it is a bit pointless and excessive. 🙂
Ive also been told by honeywell that theirs is the only one that can provide boiler interlock as they have the patents on two way communication and actively sue any who says theirs does.
can you explain further please?
If you need any help and advice Rich at the evohome shop will talk you through any questions you have.
Yep that's where I intended to buy it from,......before I started to consider Tado.
B.A.Nana
I didnt install it to splash the cash - it was to save money. - reasonbly large detached house, wife who really doesn't do cold and oil heating meant that I reckon the £650 ish the system cost paid for itself somewhere between year 1 and 2.
I dont mind the 20 min cold either but my wife does!)
Likewise, I want to use as little gas as poss, just no desire or intention to justify that initial outlay.
Basic the evohome system, each individual hr92 trv can independantly get the boiler to fire. Where you can twist the trv head and it will turn the boiler on and fire the boiler. Where some systems just open the trv and the boiler only fires when the system times are calling for heat.
You have to be carefully as well because you could get higher gas bills with poor thought to the zoning.
If you bring just one radiator on and its only a small heat load the boiler will cycle like a good un. So its important to get a boiler with a good turn down ratio.
Of course yes it's not all about justifying the purchase financially, it's plain better. Smart heating works both ways - cost saving and comfort enhancing.
Our second house, despite being bang up to date gas fired condensing boiler and all that is still cold at night as the heating switches off at night.
Our main home, on an oil burner is lovely an toast at night - the only rooms heated are the bedrooms. Come time to wake up and downstairs is lovely and toasty by the time we go down for breakfast.
The only times you notice it's not just a house with the heating on 24/7 are when going down in the middle of the night for a glass of water etc, it's strangely cold downstairs.
Older evohome controller is [url= https://www.amazon.co.uk/evohome-Wireless-Connected-Heating-Controller/dp/B00P12S6BC/ref=gbps_tit_m-8_46a4_a8c6c4f8?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_p=6252dbc4-fc63-40d0-ba4d-4d02ea1246a4&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-8&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=161428031&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=BKVTVBXYX78FQJ6S0EAQ ]£109 on Amazon today[/url]. Is the only difference that it has a separate box to plug into your router rather than wifi built in?
The learning part generally means that it will, over time work out how much your house warms up naturally on a sunny/not so sunny day. Tado then uses that and your location(s) to decide when the heating goes on. With my mum's Tado it is always nice to come home and find the boiler running, ensuring that the rooms are up to temp for your home coming
How does it work it out though? Does it have a thermometer outside? A house has differing humidity every day, the temp is different every day, wind speed is different every day. I can not see how it can ever get it right.
Our boiler has an external temp gauge on it that means it works less hard in warmer weather. This definitely saves some fuel, but that isn't a perfect system.
It works off the weather forecast for your location and learns ( adapts ) based on how that affects the warming of your house.
Sunny still day - the house will warm up itself to some degree, cold windy day - needs more heat.
Obviously every home is somewhat different; a semi wouldn't heat up from the sun as much as my top floor apartment with big south-facing windows.