Helpful if you and your billionaire tax-dodging mates own pretty much the entire countries media.
Divide and conquer
There are still plenty of us who’s memory is still raw about what they did....
Have you ever stood there as a powerless spectator and seen how quick heroin takes hold in a community cut adrift by a government who couldn’t care less, and where the hopelessness of mass unemployment and zero prospects is all pervasive?
i believe that bitch referred to it as ‘managed decline’. There was nothing managed about it from what I could see, believe me.,Looked to me more like ‘left to rot’.
Like RS said .. never forgive, never forget!
Watching May banging on about ‘Opportunities for all’ while simultaneously *ing us has led to me inventing new swear words
i *ing despise them!
As much as I hate the Tories, the thought of a Corbyn/Momentum government is more worrisome. I'm sure i'd be better off for 5 to 10 years, but how would our children and grandchildren pay for the excess spending?.
Money doesn't grow on trees, and whilst many of Jeremy's promises are fantastic, they are undeliverable long term.
His constant admiration and political will to follow what Hugo Chavez did in Venezuela, the subsequent outcome of those actions, and still to this day, not admit the socialist reforms undertaken were misguided.
We need a new, modern, forward thinking political party in this Country. Who knows? it may happen.
His constant admiration and political will to follow what Hugo Chavez did in Venezuela, the subsequent outcome of those actions, and still to this day, not admit the socialist reforms undertaken were misguided.
Venezuela is not really running a pure socialist economy. There is a large private element to it and the ups and downs (which are blamed on Socialism and constantly repeated) are a product of its success or failure of the oil market, as well as being currupt and badly managed. It did do well for a long time though.
It hasn't failed because of ideology.
Corbyn/Momentum government is more worrisome. I’m sure i’d be better off for 5 to 10 years, but how would our children and grandchildren pay for the excess spending?.
One answer would be growth in the economy.
Second answer would be how are we paying for it now as we spiral downwards?
Third answer would be: Tories track record on having budget surpluses are pretty dismal. In fact Labour have sat on more surpluses over the last few decades. So spending out of control is not necessarily a Labour issue.
But again often repeated.
They seem fine to me. But fortunately I'm not northern nor have a victim complex.
Boiled down to its most basic ingredients . . .
The Tory party are the Mill Owners who live in the big house with the servants, and the rest of us are "In Service".
Where we used to walk we may have our own cars (which we pay dearly for) and our own smart phones (which the Mill Owners use against us without most of us even realising) and "own our own houses" (which we pay dearly for) . . . and we may not all work in the pits or the mills, but whether it's in front of a loom, or in a call center or in front of a monitor all day long, at a basic level it's all just the same.
How will Labour pay for its programme? Perhaps fair taxation similar to the rest of europe? We are low tax low earnings low regulation economy.
The OP does have a point tho - pre 80S there was a paternalistic streak in the tories " we will look after the little people" that seems to have gone but the utter shits " its our money and poor can't have any" have pretty much obliterated the paternalistic ones
They seem fine to me. But fortunately I’m [s]not northern nor have a victim complex.[/s] alright Jack.
FTFY.
The Tories won’t leave the countries finances better off, that’s not what they do! They’ve always been about not helping those who need help, and helping those who least need it, utter ****s.
Ive worked with many people on low incomes who support them. And guess what, they’ve not helped them, they’re still on low incomes no better off. But then, they all read the Mail or Express with their lunch AND think of them as good newspapers. Which is basically why we’re ****ed and will remain ****ed.
I did read the OP and thought Epic should have qualified his era for childhood. Lots of 70s/80s kids on here.
Meanwhile down here in the South East.... 😉
And yet bizarrely, enough turkeys voted for Xmas last year, somehow Royston kept his seat here by 31 votes!
Money doesn’t grow on trees, and whilst many of Jeremy’s promises are fantastic, they are undeliverable long term.
But it does, the current shower shook the tree for £1bn for the gangsters in Ulster to remain in power despite there being no more money for NHS nor the local authorities.
They also forget the quantitative easing program.
To be even handed I don't trust politicians of any persuasion. But last week I walked out of a school function when our MP turned up. The school has 30-40% of the kids living in the bottom 10% on poverty metrics. And this Tory tosspot turns up for photos. When all of his voting is decreasing the help these kids might get.
**** *
piemonster
...I did read the OP and thought Epic should have qualified his era for childhood. Lots of 70s/80s kids on here.
Yup, born before the NHS. 🙂
Further reflection. When I was young most of the Tory MPs would have been people who had served in the trenches in WW1 or WW2 or Korea at some point, many with good records.
They would have been in closer contact with and dependent for their lives on the sort of people our current Tories regard as subhuman. They would have been more likely to see us as humans.
Meanwhile down here in the South East…
Meanwhile down in the South East.......what?
Further reflection. When I was young most of the Tory MPs would have been people who had served in the trenches in WW1 or WW2 or Korea at some point, many with good records.
They would have been in closer contact with and dependent for their lives on the sort of people our current Tories regard as subhuman. They would have been more likely to see us as humans.
Most as officers. Major skill, at least in the part of WW2 where my father fought, getting other people killed. They were probably better at sounding human, but they still produced that woman and the insane Joseph.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Why haven't the people revolted, mainly because they're spineless hand wringers </span>
Given that fiat money is printed on paper at the whim of the govt, it's more accurate to say that money does quite literally grow on trees when they want it to.
Anyone who is surprised at the tories hasn't been paying attention.
Most as officers. Major skill, at least in the part of WW2 where my father fought, getting other people killed.
Not sticking up for the Tory ****ers but you do know that in WW2 Officers were a lot more likely to be killed than the lower ranks?
How will Labour pay for its programme? Perhaps fair taxation similar to the rest of europe? We are low tax low earnings low regulation economy.
Yes at some point we have to accept who has to pay for a decent level of service. Of course the ability to pay higher taxes implies an improvement in pay, particularly sorting out the "gig" economy.
Thinking about Binner's comment re. Thatcher being appalled by this current bunch, I reckon he's right and I'm reminded of a quote by Walter Sobchak in "The Big Lebowski" commenting on nihilism -" Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos".
Thatcher had a plan whether you liked it or not (I too am a child of the coalfields so I don't need to expand on my opinion) whereas this lot are the nihilists. They have no idea. Their pig ****ing posh boy led the country down a path to ruin purely out of party interest.
I find it somewhat disheartening that people will describe other people as vermin, or sub-human.
It's exactly the sort of thing the right wing press are (rightly) vilified for when talking about refugees, immigrants etc.
I don't think it does your argument any favours either.
I’m not puzzled by it.
I am puzzled why the people vote for it.
I find it somewhat disheartening that people will describe other people as vermin, or sub-human.
It’s exactly the sort of thing the right wing press are (rightly) vilified for when talking about refugees, immigrants etc.
I don’t think it does your argument any favours either.
I was going to post this bit couldn't be arsed with an argument. The pissing on graves bit etc is distasteful and actually is a poor reflection of the author IMO.
Meanwhile down in the South East…….what?
A comedic quip intended to draw a pun on the stereo typical north/south divide.
As a child of the seventies who grew up with parents working 4 jobs between them and massive interest rests, second hand clothes etc and leaving school with 5 grade C GCSE's, its a bit of of hard work that now has me in a fortunate place for my family and my own life. I appreciate I'm fortunate not to have had relatives miners strikes and with industry ripped away in my region, but some people could actually do far better by moving thier energy away from continual gripes and bitterness of the past into building a more successful future for yourselves.
Sadly, you'd all rather moan on the internet that do that.
I find it somewhat disheartening that people will describe other people as vermin, or sub-human.
Me too, but in this case the reason for doing so is at least understandable.
but some people could actually do far better by moving thier energy away from continual gripes and bitterness of the past into building a more successful future for yourselves.
Some of us are capable of both.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
I find it somewhat disheartening that people will describe other people as vermin, or sub-human.
its a reaction.
It comes from the fact that thats how they treated large swathes of the population. Like vermin.
My issue with Thatcher and the Tories wasn't what they did - I understand that the economy had to change and modernise - it was the manner in which it was done. It was a totally hate-filled and malicious piece of social and cultural vandalism. It as class war personified. It was vengeance on the working classes for the miners bringing down the last Tory administration. It was collective punishment dropped on millions of people who had done nothing whatsoever to deserve it
You can't just systematically close all the major employers in loads of areas, putting millions out of work - all areas safely a good distance away from you and your wealthy friends, I might add - and do absolutely nothing to mitigate the fallout from that. Thats what they did. Then when those areas rebelled, they militarised the police to quell any rebellion in the most violent manner imaginable. Then at times appear to be actively enjoying the spectacle.
if you question the language being used about them, then to add to Slowoldman's Big Lebowski Quotes 'you weren't there, man'
Respect is a reciprocal thing that needs to be earned. And the very smallest consideration is that you exhibit the most base elements of humanity. And if they're incapable of rising to that very low bar, then I'll call them what I *ing like. They deserve it! The *s!!!
Money doesn’t grow on trees,
How do you think money is created?
but some people could actually do far better by moving thier energy away from continual gripes and bitterness of the past into building a more successful future for yourselves.
Sadly, you’d all rather moan on the internet that do that.
My future is fine thanks. Unfortunately I can't say that about the people who have been raped by years of tory governments. I guess those people should just try harder...
As a child of the seventies who grew up with parents working 4 jobs between them and massive interest rests, second hand clothes etc and leaving school with 5 grade C GCSE’s, its a bit of of hard work that now has me in a fortunate place for my family and my own life. I appreciate I’m fortunate not to have had relatives miners strikes and with industry ripped away in my region, but some people could actually do far better by moving thier energy away from continual gripes and bitterness of the past into building a more successful future for yourselves.
Sadly, you’d all rather moan on the internet that do that.
You mean like the Brexiters did by voting for Brexit? I suppose they voted out of love, peace and harmony etc?
Having said that, the working classes have constantly brought this on themselves by allowing themselves to be ****ed over by Tories and then blaming immigrants for it.
Helpful if you and your billionaire tax-dodging mates own pretty much the entire countries media.
One once again - this is a key point.
Th ownership of our press by a small ultra right wing clique is a huge stain on our society and once you understand this it becomes clearer how they control the population
Two lessons from history
"Bread and circuses"
" the big lie"
I know I know - Godwins law!
The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous
Joseph Goebbels 1941 commenting on Churchill.
Given that fiat money is printed on paper at the whim of the govt, it’s more accurate to say that money does quite literally grow on trees when they want it to.
This can't be overstated enough in a serious sense of printing for infrastructure.
I have nothing more to add and applaud all the comments so far
TJ wins the thread, had no idea that Goebells said that.
Th ownership of our press by a small ultra right wing clique
The Guardian, The Independent, The Observer, The Financial Times, The Times, The i, The Morning Star & the Mirror.
Nice heated thread.
I think the people have turned against the people.
I don't want to get too involved but it seems these days the majority are just out for themselves. My parent's brought me up with a Utilitarian attitude to voting - don't just vote for what will benefit you, but vote for the greater good. I might be alright, Jack, but it's my social responsibility to use my vote, to a certain extent, to help the less fortunate. I still vote like that today. People can vote how they want, but I despair when I meet people who have voted one way because of one little incentive, such as a measly tax cut; it's so short-sighted.
Of course, everyone's view of the greater good is different. People believed that Thatcher's trickle-down wealth would work to pull the poor up as the rich guy got richer. Tax cuts for the wealthy were proposed as a policy benefitting society as a whole. Did that work? Hmmmm. My family didn't fall for that crap.
I don't know enough about it, but I can see a problem is that when you stand by a label, such as Conservatism, or Socialism, there is limited manoeuvrability within the philosophy to be too radical. Conservatism is all about the individual, personal wealth and capitalism, it's what it is, so trying to be a socially responsible Conservative is philosophically very difficult in my view, no matter what they say. Blair seemed to manage it the other way around, but was he really a socialist? There are different brands of Conservatism that take parts of liberalism and other ideas of course, but it just ends up as cherry picking. We're trapped in this ridiculous, antiquated party politics system, based on old philosophies, each individual having a different interpretation of what they believe is right and arguing all day about it. It's impossible.
Do I have a solution? I was quite fond of Anarchy back in the day, but Liberalism now seems a good aim. On the other hand, a good friend of mine believes that we should bring back a Monarchy. They have nothing to prove, Liz would do a good job until Chuck took over, then I'm sure Will would make a good fist of it. No elections, just get on with it. We might get a revolution then, which is probably long overdue.
All this crap can be summed up, chewed up and spat out in one 90 minute sitting of the greatest satire ever made, The Life of Brian.
"Are you the Judean's People's Front?", "F*** off, we're the People's Front of Judea"
TJ probably considers the Times and the FT hard right lol :p
Unfortunately I can’t say that about the people who have been raped by years of tory governments. I guess those people should just try harder…
Are you and me elsewhere? Not me, thats for sure. Yes try harder. Stop bitching about things and move forward and try to positively improve you life. I really don't understand those who choose to continue to live in bitterness when they really don't have to.
My parent’s brought me up with a Utilitarian attitude to voting – don’t just vote for what will benefit you, but vote for the greater good.
I agree. Funnily enough what's best for society will ultimately be what's best for the majority. But we have problems with our politics in that respect. The Tories have no interest in the majority, they show that time and again. Both Tory and Labour are only interested in policies which will win them the next election, there is a woeful lack of long term strategic planning.
We need a politics which doesn't "govern" so much as "administer" the affairs of state for the benefit of its inhabitants. We don't have that.
Or a revolution.
Stop bitching about things and move forward and try to positively improve you life. I really don’t understand those who choose to continue to live in bitterness when they really don’t have to.
They are living in poverty not bitterness and they are living in poverty through things that have happened to them (family, education, genetics, mental illness etc,.)
Not everyone can just 'try harder' but you are typical of the people who would rather not have to acknowledge that so you don't have to think about helping the situation.
I really don’t understand those who choose to continue to live in bitterness when they really don’t have to.
Once again, most people can move forward and still learn from history.
An inability to understand this suggests either deliberate misrepresentation, ignorance or both.
Once again, most people can move forward and still learn from history.
I understand it Rusty, but most in here don't demonstrate it.
How have you reached that conclusion?
Once again, most people can move forward and still learn from history.
One of the lessons I’ve learned from history is to avoid confrontation with police horses.
The old guy who lived next door taught me that when i was twelve
They are living in poverty not bitterness and they are living in poverty through things that have happened to them (family, education, genetics, mental illness etc,.)
Not everyone can just ‘try harder’ but you are typical of the people who would rather not have to acknowledge that so you don’t have to think about helping the situation.
More generally, those who are comfortable in life are often not very good at acknowledging that their situation is not entirely due to their own endeavours.
