[Closed] P*s*ing contests

if you mods are so objective

We're not, it's entirely subjective. We just try to be reasonable and fair. But:

why is one of you deleting my posts and not other user's posts containing the same material?

Are we really doing this again? It's because there is no Big Book o' Rules, we're a team of individuals with different ideas of what is and isn't appropriate, and (shockingly) different people may have different values and opinions and make different calls.

Why is it wrong for folk to remember mistreatment

I didn't say it was wrong, I was simply offering a possible explanation.

I think perhaps carrying a grudge around for years because of a single ill-conceived post or a poor judgement call is a bit weird though. If it was a campaign of "mistreatment" then that's totally fair enough. See my comments on banning earlier.

I myself feel bitter

We hadn't noticed.

I let slide your first comment here where you were were accusing us of condoning bullying, but you clearly have an axe to grind so feel free to ask questions. I'd rather put your mind at rest than have you harbouring negative views, and transparency is healthy for the forum IMO.

by having a very personal post removed from Oldnpastit's suicidal son thread.

I don't recall the post you're referring to, but such a thread would've been a very sensitive discussion and would almost certainly have merited atypically keen moderation. As with any moderatorial decision it's entirely possible that a bad call was made. It's equally possible that your post came across badly.

I'm struggling to respond to your belief that it was a personal slight on you without using some version of "get over yourself." I don't believe anyone on the team views you particularly as one of the problem children, and I've no idea what you're on about with your hauntings.

Errrrr! No, it wasn't.

Well, good. You're not tripping.

While we're having a forum jamboree, I'd like to apologise to Kryton57. Though well-meaning (honestly) I appreciate that some of my responses to his threads and comments have come across as rather abrasive. I'm sure I'm guilty of some over-familiarity and indulging in what might be considered banter if we knew each other better. I've tried to put an end to it.

I don't believe anyone on the team views you particularly as one of the problem children

I rather suspect you meant this in the past tense 😉

it was used on a thread recently and very obvious it was deleted when I used it but not when Boblo, I think, used it. Similar thing on a different thread. I even joked I would be suspicious if Boblo's post in question wasn't pulled or edited.

In that case you can put the tinfoil away. We'd all have deleted that if we'd seen it, if it wasn't deleted then it must have slipped through the net because we didn't notice it. You know there's a Report Post button under every post, right?

Jamboree 😆

I'm struggling to respond to your belief that it was a personal slight on you without using some version of "get over yourself." I don't believe anyone on the team views you particularly as one of the problem children, and I've no idea what you're on about with your hauntings.

I wouldn't expect anything better than that first line from you, Cougar. But you're wrong, I'm far from egotistical and don't need wetnursing. And I would hope I wasn't viewed as a problem - I try to be courteous to everyone until they promote a different reaction or treat me with contempt, then they're fair game.

Bullying - I'd rather put your mind at rest than have you harbouring negative views, and transparency is healthy for the forum IMO.

[Canadian] Okay, then... [/Canadian]

Kaesae. You let it happen and the same people still behave in the same manner.

Who's deleting my posts but leaving others with the same content? Why?

I rather suspect you meant this in the past tense

Oh sure, he's on the list [i]now...[/i] (-:

You know there's a Report Post button under every post, right?

As I've said in mails to the mods and publicly on the forum - I ain't bothered by language - I'm really not that fragile, so obviously I'm not going to report it. Besides, I made a point of claiming there would be a conspiracy if Boblo's post wasn't caught so the mod must've read that and decided not to look any further on the thread, which is weird moderation, right. I mean, to appear on a thread, delete a post on the use of one word without really taking in what was actually written and then leaving the original post containing the so-called offensive word.

It's just weird...

Jamboree

😀

Oh yeah - the haunting thing was just a joke about the way in which folk believe everyone they don't recognise or stands against the masses is a former user come back to...uh...troll them. Yeah, that's it. Troll them from the grave of a lifetime ban.

Like Fred...

Teasel is deffo trolling now.

[quote=teasel ]Kaesae. You let it happen and the same people still behave in the same manner.
Ah yes, Kaesae. That treatment has certainly caused me to review how I deal with one particular poster. I've mentioned it in passing on a couple of threads and it seems to have had the desired effect on at least a couple of other folk too. I guess that's one instance where the Report Post button could be used more often.

Yeah, it was a sad time for that guy. I've noticed some changed their ways. Others, you can tell, feel as if it was all justified and show no remorse.

Teasel is deffo trolling now.

I've never trolled this forum.

wasnt there once a post on here about the internet not being real life?

Now we're definitely into pissing contest territory

I think the moderation strikes a decent balance on the whole. I don't believe generally bullying is rife but there is no doubt there are one or two that delight in belittling people and sometimes there is a ganging up that has a bullying edge. I think Jamba gets this. the person who attempted to bully me most has backed off now a lot - presumably because of the mods actions. I am certain I know why he behaved like this towards me and I rather pity him.

On the p*s*ing contest topic

Part of my flaws that leads me into this is I am incredulous that someone can not understand a simple point and obviously if they did understand it they would agree with me hence arriving at

incessant, persistent and borderline obsessive drilling down or digging in on certain points.

I am also guilty of

'last wordism'

On Krytons cadence thread I thought that post particularly bad and out of order. In my case I have often inadvertently wound someone up so they lash out - you reap what you sow. Kryton had done nothing to trigger that at all so for me that is inexcusable and I thought it really nasty in tone.

I don't really consider myself bullied in any way as I am not a victim - it does not affect my sense of self worth at all and I am content with who I am - flawed tho that may be. Although some deliberately bait me in the style of poking a bear in a cage - knowing that if I lose it I will be banned. I am well aware my presence here will forever be on a low threshold for a ban and I accept this.

Its quite a subtle edge between a passionate debate, and argument and abuse. For example AA and I have had a few rows sometimes pretty heated however ( IIRC) never reaching the point of personal abuse and I can still interact with him without issues.

I think we do have a few posters on here with major psychological issues that lead them to hate folk like me who reject their values and I think many of the are actually objects of pity. someone who has to belittle someone else to get their sense of self worth is to be pitied.

I wouldn't expect anything better than that first line from you, Cougar.

You misunderstand my intent I think. I was trying to say that I can't say what I want to say without sounding like a dick, and I don't want to sound like a dick. My point was that, well, I don't know if this is any better but you're not particularly on our radar as far as I'm aware.

You do seem to be either anti-moderators or anti-me. The comment that you "wouldn't expect anything better" means I have to ask, it me? Have I wronged you in a previous life somehow? I don't remember if so. I'm doing the best I can here.

Kaesae. You let it happen and the same people still behave in the same manner.

*deep breath*

I'm torn here between "that's a low blow" and "that's a fair point."

There are a number of people on here with mental health issues. Some we're aware of, some others I expect we aren't. Only just today the moderation team were discussing one such user with a view to how we should deal with something that was posted.

But how do you handle that? Serious question, what would you do differently to what we're already doing?* Tell me I'm doing it wrong and I'll try and change it. I'm in mind here of the argument that motorists should spend a day on the roads on two wheels to find out what it's like. It's not easy to always do the right thing.

Who's deleting my posts but leaving others with the same content? Why?

I've already answered that, read back.

Here ya go. Just last week...

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/can-you-get-ripped-off-through-paypal

Boblo part-quotes my deleted post using the word that clearly remains. If you're going to claim my use was unnecessary and out of context then I refer you to a week or so earlier where I used it in the exact same context and it was modified to the word [i]unpleasant[/i].

I'd put money on the deletion and modification being the same mod. If so, why...?

[quote=Cougar ]Serious question, what would you do differently to what we're already doing?
Nowt really. As is frequently pointed out, the forum has to be self-policing to some extent as the Mods can't review every post. Rely on the worst being reported and act if there's perceived justification?

Cougar - I would love to continue this in what seems to be a reasonable manner. But I've really got a shit load to do and will have to return to some of the points you've raised tomorrow at some point. Maybe the day after as I've got my car in about a million pieces and that's what I'll be doing for most of the day.

Teasel out...

I think folk like cougar and I ( as well as others) suffer particularly badly from the loss of nuance in text based conversations.

I think we do have a few posters on here with major psychological issues that lead them to hate folk like me who reject their values and I think many of the are actually objects of pity.

For example AA and I have had a few rows sometimes pretty heated however ( IIRC) never reaching the point of personal abuse and I can still interact with him without issues.

I expect thats because we are quite similar!! You take the trouble to read posts you argue with which actually makes a good argument possible, many here read the first line and presume the rest.

Some people here are just knobs though. I am quite happy to say such when they piss me off, the only problem is the mods have to then delete it and ban me, which seems a shame to make more work for them which is pretty much the only reason I bite my tongue more these days. A spade is a spade and I'll call it such. The bans dont bother me, rules is rules.

someone who has to belittle someone else to get their sense of self worth is to be pitied.

Like that Elfinsafety bloke TJ? I'm sure he wasn't quite right in the head after he slagged me off on FB cos I wasn't Jeremy Corbyn's best pal.

Its quite a subtle edge between a passionate debate, and argument and abuse.

Exactly. & FWIW, in my 60 years I've had every insult possible thrown at me, from being a council apprentice to a prison officer, & really do not give a toss. (apart from one poster I reported who thought I had drugs up me arse, 'allegedly/apparently', which was a tiny bit too much to let go) 😕

Here ya go. Just last week...

Thanks for bringing that to our attention. That was unacceptable so I've now edited his post, and the subsequent one by Hob Nob which you completely failed to mention. Maybe like us you just didn't see it?

See how [i]easy [/i]that was? Just to tell us about things so that we can do something about it?

I'd put money on the deletion and modification being the same mod. If so, why...?

Because you have a chip on your shoulder?

I don't remember changing that to "unpleasant," but my memory isn't great and I do often prefer to edit posts rather than issue swear filter warnings (I "ain't bothered by language" either, but them's the rules) so it's likely that was me.

All is fair I say.... until we get to a Mac v PC thread.... then the knives are really sharpened.

Despite all the bickering and point scoring I still think this place is great. I wouldn't pay to hang out here if not. Threads such as the "recommend me a light" that ended with raising over £1k for a wheelchair, the numerous cancer support threads, the support I received when my son was ill, these all massively outweigh all the argumentative posts in my opinion.

Most of the super, get the biscuits out, threads end up getting derailed and turn a bit surreal. All part of the charm of this place 😀

I think folk like cougar and I ( as well as others) suffer particularly badly from the loss of nuance in text based conversations.

Crap, how did I not make that connection before?

From my POV, if I say something that could be construed as innocuous or silly, or could make readers angry or upset, my intention is almost universally the former. I tend to assume that most people here know that, but I drop the ball sometimes. I tend to over-use smileys but even so I forget sometimes.

As a reader I sometimes forget that rule of thumb and react, but I'd like to think that when I'm called on it I'm man enough to apologise. If I don't then, erm, I apologise.

tjagain - I think we do have a few posters on here with major psychological issues that lead them to hate folk like me who reject their values

leffeboy - unfortunately not - seriously. I thought a fair bit about that post, let it sit for a while before posting it and still managed to be inflammatory apparently without an inkling it could be construed as such.

I tend to( do others?) only to see what I mean not how it could be construed

I shall ponder that a bit more

[quote=Cougar ]
From my POV, if I say something that could be construed as innocuous or silly, or could make readers angry or upset, my intention is almost universally the former.
That's what Junkyard called "Druidhs First Rule of STW".

If you always assume the poster wrote it with a smile on their face, you won't go far wrong.

[quote=tjagain ]leffeboy - unfortunately not - seriously. I thought a fair bit about that post, let it sit for a while before posting it and still managed to be inflammatory apparently without an inkling it could be construed as such.
Really? In that case you should step away from the keyboard!

If you always assume the poster wrote it with a smile on their face, you won't go far wrong.

Couldn't agree more.

I'm certainly guilty of failing to follow that rule here. Must do better.

Cougar = see leffeboys reaction to my post. Its a clear example of how what is meant as a thoughtful contribution to debate can be seen as something else altogether.

I was trying to unpick the motivations of people - not offend them - upon rereading it in the light of leffeboys post I can completely see what he means. I didn't see that before I posted it dispite re reading it many times.

I think I shall have to go and sit in a corner with a dunces hat on!

@tj - your post was doing well until your last paragraph. That should have stayed in your head as saying it out loud was fighting talk 🙂 .

Me now
[img] [/img]

If you always assume the poster wrote it with a smile on their face, you won't go far wrong.
Couldn't agree more.

I'm certainly guilty of failing to follow that rule here. Must do better.

I agree with this. Perhaps we should all take a leaf out of chewkw' book and add Smileys to posts (did I just type that)

Most of the super, get the biscuits out, threads end up getting derailed and turn a bit surreal. All part of the charm of this place

This is what keeps me coming back.

I love a surrealist derailment.

I love a surrealist derailment.

I think I've seen that in the Tate Modern.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Is that the Flying Scotsman Perchy?

Flying Scotsman

TJ?