[Closed] Pothole punctures and claiming off the council

Unless the pothole has already been reported (by someone else), your chances are slim to none, and slim has just left town I'm afraid.

You're not the only one. Here's what my brother emailed yesterday from Michigan:

[i]Our weather sucks. It's a continuous minus 22 degrees C, it's constantly snowing, there is about an inch of salt splattered on everything, and all of our already crap third-world roads have completely given up. The hard-top tarmac has disappeared in sheets, and in many places the potholes have gone to 10 to 14 inches deep, some of these are actually in the wheel tracks of the motorway, some on the motorway service drives, and most of them on my way to work. Three weeks ago I went down one on a monday morning in the dark. It tore my tire right off my rim, ripped a hole in my tire sidewall and completely destroyed my rim. $700 later, I had a new rim and tire, and a front-end tracking alignment done. I filed a claim to the City Council where it happened so we will see if they are good for their word or not. Back in December i had 4 new rims and 4 new tires, and the new rims are already getting bent. Jeez, VW obviously specced these rims for smooth, professionally laid, properly maintained German roads.[/i]

*this* is a pot hole;

Just going through the same process. Bloody great hole and raised manhole cover ripped my tyre completely this week.

£OOO down the swanny.

I sort of feel your pain, but to be honest I'm not a fan of councils paying out for this sort of thing, the weather is probably costing them a fortune and the last thing they need is to have to deal with loads of small claims for avoidable damage.

I know avoidable might be a bit contentious, but you must have hit them quite hard to puncture both tyres, maybe slow down a bit when going through water/can't see the road surface?

I also might be biased, but a member of my family had to leave their job in highways due to stress and depression, in part due to having to deal with thousand of moaning, yelling, aggressive, threatening members of the public.

I feel your pain pondo.

The roads around Cheltenham are so bad I'm continuously swerving to miss the potholes, and in turn probably hitting more! I had to replace the spring in my front right shock as it was annihilated by hole - whether it was one bit hit or continuous stress put on the shock by potholes I don't know, but the garage said I'd be extremely lucky to get any money out of the local council for it. I did a little research in trying to claim and came to the conclusion I'd be best off just taking the bill and forgetting about it. If it happens again I might try, but unfortunately I doubt I'd get anywhere.

I dread to think what's going to happen if it freezes properly - there's so much water in the ground now that it's bursting out of the roads in places. It's going to wreck the roads, much worse than in a normal cold snap.

I tried to claim off my council a few years back with no luck, they said it was nto there on the last "inspection" and so their insurers said no deal.Report in the Metro today saying that Glasgow and Edinburgh councils had paid out huge amounts in damages to car owners as a result of potholes.

The pothole needs to have been reported for you to claim compo.

Report the pothole (or get a friend to do it) and wait 48 hours before getting it fixed at the garage and pretend it happened after it had been reported.

yourguitarhero - Member
The pothole needs to have been reported for you to claim compo

No, they need to show they have a reasonable inspection and repair regime - not the same.

Report the pothole (or get a friend to do it) and wait 48 hours before getting it fixed at the garage and pretend it happened after it had been reported.

I got reimbursed for a wheel repair and replacement tyre from Glasgow City Council, took a bit of chasing and I believe its actually their policy to reject all claims when they first submitted

It can be done, depends on circumstances though.

When it happened to me, I went back to where it happened, took pictures (including measurements of the depth etc) then sent a letter along with the photographic evidence and receipts for the work I had done (new tyre, new alloy wheel (cracked), retracking and suspension checking) and they paid up - Leeds City Council.

Thanks for the feedback, folks - bit of a "suck it and see", then.

I sort of feel your pain, but to be honest I'm not a fan of councils paying out for this sort of thing, the weather is probably costing them a fortune and the last thing they need is to have to deal with loads of small claims for avoidable damage.

I know avoidable might be a bit contentious, but you must have hit them quite hard to puncture both tyres, maybe slow down a bit when going through water/can't see the road surface?

My car had to have an offside front spring at the last MOT, and I'll never know for sure but I'm pretty positive the ploughed tarmac nature of this bit of road was a major contributing factor.

Alloy rims and low profile tyres make such things much more likely, not really the councils fault if everyone wants to drive around in cars unsuitable for the roads.

It is easy to blame the authorities, but some aspects of cars have been optimised for performance and made them unsuitable for some aspects of real world driving.

It's not low profile, by any stretch -
[img] [/img]

Fiat Panda, it's got big bouncy clown tyres. 🙂

MSP #fail 😉

Maybe not in this case, but I do think a lot of cases are due to low profile tyres and alloy rims.

This has just appeared on the M2

[img] [/img]

lucky it wasn't under the carriageway 😯

People need to slow down more

having got another pot hole puncture on the bike I am going to claim the cost of an innertube off the council (Gloucestershire CC/Cheltenham BC) The stretch of road has ALOT of holes, I avoided some but got caught by another, it is also unlit and badly drained. I did submit a claim for the same stretch last year when it finished a rim, but was rejected.

That they have done Sweet FA in the following 12 months suggests negligence to me. They do there inspections, I did a FOI request, they also have lots of complaints about the holes, they just choose to set their idea of a pot hole way above what is IMO acceptable.

@Kedmun, GCC say a pothole isn't a pot hole until it is over 300mm across and 40mm deep I seem to remember so don't feel obliged to repair anything less!

People need to slow down more

Horses are much better at dealing with rough ground, perhaps we could go back to them

People need to slow down more

We have some horrendous potholes down here in Surrey and it does my head in. I do my best to avoid them but I know plenty of people who seem to continually hit them head on, some of which just don't seem to see them and then moan about it immediately after.

Friends have successfully claimed for replacement tyres in recent months. The council seem well aware their roads are sh1t and just cough up.

Dented and buckled a rear Ksyrium rim last Tuesday hitting a pothole at 20 mph. Instant snakebite puncture in a brand new Continental lightweight tube 🙁 . It was the first ride out after the rear mech went into the spokes and the wheel was rebuilt. Tyre pressure was 110psi checked before the ride. Maybe I have a claim!

Id have sympathy with the council and weather if they fixed the pot holes properly.

But no, they just put some tar in them and squash it with a spade. Then a few weeks/months later another one appears next to it.

The roads where I live are a patchwork of badly repaired holes. If they did a good job once they would save money in the long run - but hey, dont expect the council / government to do a proper job, or think in the long term.

but this bit of road ALWAYS has flooding issues, and consequentially always has a rubbish surface.

And you still plough through it?

Interesting tactic.

Not sure if all councils have the same policy but we had a claim rejected recently by Herefordshire council because they had complied with their inspection and repair schedule. The pothole my wife hit had been picked up on a prior inspection but they were still within their 28 day window to fix it. Pot(hole) luck then whether you get compo or not :-/

have a look at http://www.fillthathole.org.uk/hazards/map

to see if your pothole has already been reported

if not report it in anyway

And you still plough through it?

Interesting tactic.

I know avoidable might be a bit contentious, but you must have hit them quite hard to puncture both tyres, maybe slow down a bit when going through water/can't see the road surface?

annebr - Member
People need to slow down more

sbob - Member
but this bit of road ALWAYS has flooding issues, and consequentially always has a rubbish surface.
And you still plough through it?

Interesting tactic.

pondo - Member
People need to slow down more

20mph, absolute tops.

I know avoidable might be a bit contentious, but you must have hit them quite hard to puncture both tyres, maybe slow down a bit when going through water/can't see the road surface?

What's sanctimonious about that? I thought it was a sensible suggestion, even the OP didn't take offence, so not sure why he needs you as his back-up man.

are you idiots

nice

Something some of you ought to get; there's currently a sale on at the Life Shop, I suggest you rush down there and get one

What an imaginative and witty thing to say, are you high-fiving yourself in the mirror [i]right now?[/i]

I wonder how the balance of proof/responsibility lies where a pothole has been repaired, but then goes again

most of the 'patch' repairs they seem to do round here fail again within a couple of weeks - I'd be guessing that a poor repair job would leave them open to compensation?

I would suggest the first thing to do if you encounter a pothole is report it to the Highway Authority. Either directly or through one of the third party websites. Record the reference number you are given and make a follow up call seven days later.
Secondly, I would refer someone concerned to Section 56 of the Highways Act 1980. And the also, the standard defense of S. 58.

Some sanctimonious bullshit going on here.

It isn't bullshit that I have never punctured a tyre or damaged a wheel from a pothole, underwater or otherwise.

Thinking you can blindly drive along at the posted limit and not risk damage or injury?
There's your bullshit.

Be persistent. Take pictures. Receipts for damage. Threaten small claims. Be persistent.

We pay VAT, tax on our wage, tax on our savings, tax on money we leave to family when we die, council tax, tax on fuel, tax on cars annually, tax on new cars, tax on bits we buy for cars.

If the Council leaders, Quangos or other body leaders say they cant afford stop paying themselves six figure salaries.

I'd certainly register a complaint but whether they'd pay is a different matter. Finite budget so if they are paying one person they are not doing something else.

Well Wandsworth council are making cuts to services but their FD is on a 1/4million a year+ package. Theyll find the money.

As a motorist you pay to use our roads. As a taxpaying cyclist you pay to use our roads. We arent charities are we. The HMRC dont say 'we know your broke so we'll let you off paying your dues'.

It isn't bullshit that I have never punctured a tyre or damaged a wheel from a pothole, underwater or otherwise.

Thinking you can blindly drive along at the posted limit and not risk damage or injury?
There's your bullshit.

]The road where my pothole fun happened was closed the day after I reported it - took a bit of a wander down there yesterday to scope it out.

[img] [/img]
This is the view down the closed road - in the distance, you can see how the water is puddled either side, leaving a central strip which is where everyone drives trhough the winter. If you're eagle-eyed, you can see a cone that marks where the edge of the pothole is. It's roughly central to the right-hand carrigaeway, as you look at it, which puts it right in the way if you're driving down the middle of the road.

[img] [/img]

The drop into the hole is sheer. The water is lower than it has been for awhile, which is why you can see the edge.

[img] [/img]

Scientifically, I mesured it with a stick.

[img] [/img]

The wet bit is about three quarters of the length of my size nine, which makes that hole about eight inches deep.

[img] [/img]

When I moved the cone, I found that it covers a nice little platform that means that, if you were unwittingly teetering on the brink, your drop off the edge would be pretty big. That fits - it was a big-a$$ bang, even at 20 mph.

The reason I bring this up again is because Mrs Pondo has just taken the car to have the tracking sorted, and they have diagnosed knackered suspension arms and a bill of £255 - we'll ask around, of course, but it looks like this whole party could cost something in the region o four hundred quid. Not happy. 🙁

Well, it doesn't look 'new' does it?

have you checked it on fillthathole.org.uk or potholes.co.uk to see if its been reported before?

"Do any of you actually drive cars? Especially after dark? One would reasonably be able to drive a car at or below the posted speed limit without having tyres and wheels trashed, and possibly suspension, thus risking a serious accident due to a tyre blowing off a rim"
No.
You drive according to road conditions which to mean means walking pace in standing water.
There will be exceptions , eg a manhole cover missing, but 99% of the time a car or bike wheel will cope will almost anything at 3mph. Yesterday morning a mate hit a pothole on his bike in 2 or 3 " of water. Riding almost too slow to stay up. Went down . Result 1 broken femur. whose fault? His for not walking.
It is a pisser when you do a tyre, the councils do have a duty to do their best but hidden holes if not reported cannot be their fault, especially if not found by a inspection plan or in exceptional circumstances. I dare bet that any area affected by flooding would be exceptional circumstances.

Be persistent. Take pictures. Receipts for damage. Threaten small claims. Be persistent.

We pay VAT, tax on our wage, tax on our savings, tax on money we leave to family when we die, council tax, tax on fuel, tax on cars annually, tax on new cars, tax on bits we buy for cars.

If the Council leaders, Quangos or other body leaders say they cant afford stop paying themselves six figure salaries.

If local governments are not maintaining the roads to a less than dangerous state what are they doing?

My wife reported a massive pothole to Derbyshire , no less than 10minutes later she got a call to verify its exact location, and the next day it was 'repaired' with loose tarmac. From this I surmise that they only 'fix' the reported ones...

Of course they only fix the ones they know about. Each council has hundreds of miles of road, all with constantly changing problems and conditions, especially after recent weather problems. They can only do so much with the money and resources they have.

It's not like the pothole reporting apps don't get enough publicity on both cycling and non-cycling media outlets.

Sometimes, despite someone doing the best they can you will be involved in an incident that may cause you some inconvenience, cost and possibly pain. It is called life. Those that can't cope with that concept need to take a step back some times and gain some perspective. How many potholes could be fixed with the money and manpower used up dealing with your claim for a rim damaged by an unreported pothole?

Two tyres, tracking and a front suspension arm, after hitting a pothole at 20mph. Please don't think I'm being vindictive (didn't bat an eyelid for the front spring my car needed for its MOT), but this monster really is a bit out of order. Panda's got steel wheels, so the ding will knock out for free but the rest is about three hundred quid - when I was taking pics, some lad cycling past said there'd been a crash when a car hit it last week, hence the road closure. Dread to think of some alloy-wheeled boy racer clouting that at sixty.

Right - we've had a letter through and the claim has been upheld (and Birmingham City Council do not pay out easily, five times out of nearly 600 in last three years, according to the [url= http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/drivers-seeking-damages-over-potholes-5458515 ]Birmingham Mail[/url] as of last August). But the figure offered is not for the full amount, as it "takes into account a deduction for wear and tear as [they] are obliged to settle on a like-for-like basis". Now - is that really fair? How often so suspension arms need to be changed? And they don't know how old the tyres were - how can they make a judgement on what they should pay without what they're replacing? Really, just wondering whether it's worth challenging (on point of principle as much as anything, it's only about fifty quid shy), or whether we should go "up yours" and try and stick it to em? They have offered nack-all by way of compensation of the flippin time and trouble it took to sort out, after all.

That's normal (reduction for normal wear and tear) it's to do with you being better off if you get a new part as the previous part had X % life used. Its a bugger but normal good luck fighting it, as as you have found life and insurance companies are not fair.:-(

Argue argue argue, that's not good enough.

Its all to do with betterment

http://www.irmi.com/online/insurance-glossary/terms/b/betterment-clause.aspx

I'd tell them they are lucky you are not claiming for 4 new tyres so you have matching wear on each axle. Now you have 2 new tyres on the left side and the ones on the right have different levels of wear being front and back.

Interesting this should pop back up; I've just had to have a busted spring replaced on my Skoda to get it through the MOT. I was told that springs are pretty cheap these days because they're having to be replaced in such large quantities, it's actually one of the most frequent repairs the garage has to carry out these days.
If that isn't a savage indictment of the outrageously poor standard of road maintenance these days, I don't know what is.
And that sort of damage is cumulative, it can't be blamed on one particular pot hole, unlike a smashed rim, hit at 50mph in the dark, but months of driving over increasingly poor roads.
I suppose I'm lucky in that I've only had to replace two alloys and a spring on the Skoda, but I only do around 4k miles per year, so it's perhaps the law of averages, I dunno.
I still can't quite understand how someone can be held responsible for not seeing a water-filled pothole on a wet road in the rain, driving well within the posted speed limit.
But I guess these days the victim is always responsible for their own misfortune... 🙄

[quote=CountZero ]Interesting this should pop back up; I've just had to have a busted spring replaced on my Skoda to get it through the MOT. I was told that springs are pretty cheap these days because they're having to be replaced in such large quantities, it's actually one of the most frequent repairs the garage has to carry out these days.
If that isn't a savage indictment of the outrageously poor standard of road maintenance these days, I don't know what is.

Not necessarily - not unless you include lots of speed humps in "poor standard of road maintenance". I'm not suggesting that's what caused yours, but I'd imagine it's a significant factor in the numbers breaking.

A mate of mine got a new alloy wheel and tyre off south derbyshire CC after damaging it on a pothole. They did try to reject initially but he didn't take no for an answer. You have to take photos immediately rather than going back a day or so later, but they paid out. I think it is normal practice for councils to reject most claims as they receive thousands of fraudulent claims a week. The issue about the pothole not being reported previously is BS. Someone has to be the first to report and the only reason someone will report is if they incurr damage.

Hope it works out for you Pondo.
I'm in the middle of a pothole claim myself, in which 2 of my tyres exploded at once in a huge local pothole.
I just emailed how it happened etc, provided garage receipts, and after quite a few weeks, I have been told it has been passed to their insurance department.
I wouldn't have bothered, but it was a windy road, and the potholes reached out into both sides of the road making them unavoidable in the dark, even at slow speeds.
I didn't bother asking for costs for damage to suspension- just the 2 burst tyres, so I hope they follow through!
Interestingly, the potholes were fixed within 3 days of me emailing pictures of the potholes.

If that isn't a savage indictment of the outrageously poor standard of road maintenance these days, I don't know what is.

Well not that. Some random mechanic telling you that means nothing at all, maybe the quality of springs are poorer now, maybe it's the extra weight cars are these days or maybe they're talking bullshit.

How much were you asking for?Why run Runway tyres?

Do you run cheap halford tyres offroad?

20mph through a country lane is too fast through unknown standing water. either swerve or crawl.

20mph through a country lane is too fast through unknown standing water. either swerve or crawl.

Well not that. Some random mechanic telling you that means nothing at all, maybe the quality of springs are poorer now, maybe it's the extra weight cars are these days or maybe they're talking bullshit.

Rubbish, I've heard it from several mechanics myself one of whom is a well known and trusted tuner. Fact is roads are getting worse and councils aren't doing anything about them. I take it you must live somewhere with decent roads or you would be less inclined to try and call bullshit on an obvious fact.

And speedhumps shouldn't break springs unless you are missing the point and taking them at 30 all the time, we had them on my road for years when I was small and nobody seemed to have issues.

I still can't quite understand how someone can be held responsible for not seeing a water-filled pothole on a wet road in the rain, driving well within the posted speed limit.

Because some people like to find fault in the victims regardless of the circumstances. God forbid someone drives or rides on a road like it's a road and not a poor excuse for a farm track.

Good job we're not dependent on your failure to grasp the situation in order to get this sorted, hey?

Oh yes. Goodpoint - I thought you said you were doing 20mph..

Still what the bloody ell are you doing driving on Runway tyres? Do you scrimp on mountain bike tyres too?

Oh yes. Goodpoint - I thought you said you were doing 20mph..

Still what the bloody ell are you doing driving on Runway tyres? Do you scrimp on mountain bike tyres too?

Well not that. Some random mechanic telling you that means nothing at all, maybe the quality of springs are poorer now, maybe it's the extra weight cars are these days or maybe they're talking bullshit.

Probably a bigger issue is that cars now generally come fitted with much firmer suspension with less travel and lower profile tyres that aren't really suitable for our roads but might let you drive faster on a smooth race track. In the 17 years I've been driving the roads haven't really got any worse.

Not particularly. But if you've any recommendations for tyres for the missis' diesel Panda, I'd be overjoyed to hear them.

Anything mid-range upwards. Car tyres can last 20,000+. The difference between bargain basement and mid-range upwards really isn't that much at all if you shop around. Especially at your tyre size. Say £16 a tyre? I also avoid kwikfit. I used my local indie.

On the lip/water. you have a point but in general I hate driving through pools of water. Partly because debris (small stones etc etc) can get between your caliper pads and discs if really unlucky of course.

I take it you now avoid driving down this road?

Anything mid-range upwards. Car tyres can last 20,000+. The difference between bargain basement and mid-range upwards really isn't that much at all if you shop around. Especially at your tyre size. Say £16 a tyre? I also avoid kwikfit. I used my local indie.

On the lip/water. you have a point but in general I hate driving through pools of water. Partly because debris (small stones etc etc) can get between your caliper pads and discs if really unlucky of course.

I take it you now avoid driving down this road?

I went to a local kwikfit to get my snow tyres swapped off. They wanted £25 a corner to do this and an additional charge for 'tracking'.

I went to a local kwikfit to get my snow tyres swapped off. They wanted £25 a corner to do this and an additional charge for 'tracking'.

In the 17 years I've been driving the roads haven't really got any worse.

You must be lucky then ,certainly the area that I have been driving round for the last 23years the roads have definitely got worse, I can remember the road where my parents live being resurfaced several times from my early years to my teens, comparatively its been done once in the last 17years since I moved out.

It's more that I grew up in Whitworth and the roads have always been ruined by the quarry wagons so haven't got any worse as they've always been full of potholes.

Major factor in increased spring breakages is modern car design rising rate springs are becoming the norm,reducing the diameter of the spring at the same time as reducing the thickness in the last 15% of the spring gives a nice compliant ride initially that stiffness up under cornering. All great for ride but a really poor design for robustness. Compare a fiesta front spring mk 5 and its rising rate and regularly fails, earlier versions no problem.
In the past only the pig tails used to fail and often not noticed by driver or at MOT time, these days the pig tail extends far into the spring so the fatigue point is further up and the car needs a new spring.
State of the road is a factor as is driving style but design also a major issue, much like lower on-board wishbone bushes (track control arms) that are today bolted vertically, great for driving dynamics compared to a horizontal secured Bush with no lateral compliance but now a new common failure mode of Bush to arm bonding failure meaning New arms for MOT.
Ever sportier sales bumpf is reducing the longevity of today's cars.