People not letting the facts on the water dye story
See also... https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/instagram-siberian-maldives-toxic-intl-scli/index.html
You also need to let the cops know about the “facts”
The Police were well aware of the facts, given the amount of times the emergency services pulled people out the water with various chemical burns and occasionally drowned. That "beauty spot" had blue coloured water for entirely non natural reasons.
And I'd put money on the Police seeking advice from appropriate authorities before colouring the water.
Officers stated that this is a regular tactic used to reduce antisocial behaviour.
You missed a bit.
In a Facebook post Buxton safer neighbourhood policing team said: ‘This is due to the picturesque location and the lovely weather (for once) in Buxton. However, the location is dangerous and this type of gathering is in contravention of the current instruction of the UK Government ‘With this in mind, we have attended the location this morning and used water dye to make the water look less appealing.’
Quote continues:
"This is a regular tactic that we use to reduce anti-social behaviour and we work in partnership with High Peak Borough Council and Derbyshire Fire and Rescue Service.
"However, as things stand, it has never been so important to discourage these types of gatherings."
Weather warms up, idiots turn up, pond gets dyed, as usual. It has been reported without context as an example of police overreaction, which it isn't.
The one thing this has shown me is that people hate to be told what to do. Everyone is like "of course people should stay home but *I* absolutely *need* to be able to drive to [x] and ride my bike on the gnar for <insert bullshit reason why I am special>.
Of course everyone should stay home and not see people, but I NEED to [do x activity and see x people] because <insert bullshit reason why I am so god dam special>
No one likes to be the plain old general public. Everyone needs to be someone special. People also seem to like to think they have 'got one over' the man/the system... clear indication of being a lame person with a lame life.
Just stay the f home, go out for a walk/jog/bike from your house once a day. Minimize your shopping trips to as infrequently as possible. Personally I have serious reservations about the worlds /UK government's approach, but even if you think this is all a total waste of time, going for a picnic down the local park isn't a good way to challenge this.
And if you are a key worker or other worker who has to still work outside the home - thank you.
My family are front-line medics in the covid epicentre and things are not fun and games for them at the moment. I'm sure it isn't any fun for the police, bin men, shop workers or any other people out there dealing with hard situations on a day to day basis, to try and keep society functioning, safe and well.
I imagine they define their interpretation of the law, which can then be challenged in court.
Missing the point somewhat, your remarks were god help us if NPCC define law and approach for their members, I pointed out they do this quite regularly, it’s one of their functions and they employ legal types to do this. Of course it’s their interpretation, if there’s no legal precedent it’s always going to be that. I have no issues with public and press interest in it, but to paint the NPCC action as some sort of extraordinary event is inaccurate.
I live somewhere where, up until last week, people had been driving too to exercise/walk their dogs.
The police politely requested that people don’t do it, for very good, obvious reasons
Some tinfoil-hat-wearing social inadequate then took to the local social media groups to say he was having his human rights curtailed by the police.
A few people pointed out that that was a ridiculous assertion
He then invoked Godwin’s law within 3 posts when he compared the head of the local constabulary with Goebels, complete with quotes from the Nuremberg rallies.
Other than paranoid conspiracy theorists, I think we’re all agreed the police are doing a very difficult job, but doing it with the best of intentions... to keep us safe.
They’ve now put barriers on the car parks to stop bell ends like him
This is a regular tactic that we use to reduce anti-social behaviour and we work in partnership with High Peak Borough Council and Derbyshire Fire and Rescue Service.
Thanks, and here's the link to save others googling.
https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/health/toxic-derbyshire-blue-lagoon-dyed-3994938
Missing the point somewhat, your remarks were god help us if NPCC define law and approach for their members, I pointed out they do this quite regularly, it’s one of their functions and they employ legal types to do this. Of course it’s their interpretation, if there’s no legal precedent it’s always going to be that. I have no issues with public and press interest in it, but to paint the NPCC action as some sort of extraordinary event is inaccurate.
I think you're missing the point, or perhaps I wasn't clear enough - I pointed out they don't "define" law, nothing else. Of course they interpret it and produce guidelines for the police, I never said they didn't!
I do think some people on this thread seem to assume you can't respect the police at this time and simultaneously keep a critical eye on them. They're not exclusive.
However, the location is dangerous
The water burns your skin.
It looks super inviting for exactly the same reason you absolutely should not go in it.
Famous Instasnap location in recent years.
They normally dye it later in the year… but people seemed to take the stay at home message to mean summer holidays have come early, so intervention had to happen at an unusual time of the year.
Well i cycled to a monument about half a mile from home yesterday, its got some nice natural trails and a steep incline, so great to keep my mtb fitness up. There were 10 plus cars in the car park, all people who had driven there to walk dog/baby buggy on in the case of a couple of guys, smoke a couple joints looking over the cliff view. People are just not listening.
People are just not listening.
A tiny minority of people are not listening. I've seen maybe 30 dickheads since this all started. In contrast the roads, towns and trails are deserted so thousands are staying home. This is working a treat and we all need to stick with it.
The water burns your skin.
It looks super inviting for exactly the same reason you absolutely should not go in it.
They normally die it later in the year… but people seemed to take the stay at home message to mean summer holidays have come early, so intervention had to happen at an unusual time of the year.
See how much difference a bit of context makes!
For others who thought the lake was dyed spontaneously by Derbys Police as an over reaction, do you honestly think that "lake dye" is regular issue for any officer anywhere that suddenly decides to deter dickheads from bodies of water?
There were 10 plus cars in the car park, all people who had driven there to walk dog/baby buggy on in the case of a couple of guys, smoke a couple joints looking over the cliff view. People are just not listening
Driving a short distance to somewhere quieter than your local park or streets could well be less risky in terms of transmitting the virus. A short drive once a day on quiet roads is also unlikely to add to the burden on the NHS.
And of course there's a sampling error here. What you didn't see on your bike ride is the millions of people in their houses.
That lord whosit is just being a twerp
You don't think if a retired senior judge raises his head above the parapet to point out an inconsistency between the practice on the ground and the law that it is worth at least trying to understand his concern? His point seems to be straightforward, the police exist to uphold the law not to enforce ministerial advice. If ministers had wanted this to be law they should have made it so (I'd argue that they have - the reasonable excuse is to take exercise not to travel to take exercise - but they could have done a better job).
So it's decided then, we consult Holly!?
Driving a short distance to somewhere quieter than your local park or streets could well be less risky in terms of transmitting the virus. A short drive once a day on quiet roads is also unlikely to add to the burden on the NHS.
Did you miss the footage from 2 weeks ago from the Peak District and Lake District? It wasn't locals driving a couple of miles, it was car parks overflowing with people who'd come from all over and were completely ignoring social distancing guidelines.
If people don't want to be treated like idiots, then they should stop acting like idiots. People had their chance for acting responsibly but chose to ignore it and act like a gang of dickheads instead.
The police are only enforcing the rules because people have demonstrated what happens when they don't!
We have a government who are naturally libertarian and are obviously still preferring to issue recomendations and guidelines, trusting people not to act like ****s, rather than bring in legeslation. Thus acting in the exact opposite manner than the hysterical 'police state' claptrap would have us believe
His point seems to be straightforward, the police exist to uphold the law not to enforce ministerial advice.
They can inform you of the advice and ask you to act accordingly.
People are not being locked up, or beaten with truncheons, there has been no overreach.
You don’t think if a retired senior judge raises his head above the parapet
He’s on TV every other week making similar points. He often makes very good points as well. But he’s someone who ‘raises his head above the parapet’ for money and attention. And why not.
stevemuzzy
Member
Well i cycled to a monument about half a mile from home yesterday, its got some nice natural trails and a steep incline, so great to keep my mtb fitness up. There were 10 plus cars in the car park, all people who had driven there to walk dog/baby buggy on in the case of a couple of guys, smoke a couple joints looking over the cliff view. People are just not listening.
what makes your particular interpretation of the guidelines any less valid than theirs?
what made your short cycle there less risky than their drive there?
Did you miss the footage from 2 weeks ago?
I'm not talking about two weeks ago and neither was the post I replied to. Try to keep up! 🙂
The police had to act because of what happened two weeks ago. Their actions have helped get the message across, to most people. Now people are moaning about the police, when they should be thanking them.
I’m not talking about two weeks ago and neither was the post I replied to. Try to keep up!
Oh... ok. I didn't realise that from just glancing at a car any police officer could immediately tell how far it had just travelled?
Thats quite a skillset. They're almost like superheroes. Do they have any other useful superpowers?
“once a day”.
For the avoidance of doubt (etc...) the legislation in Wales *does* specify once a day for exercise:
8.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—
(a)to obtain [...]
(b)to take exercise, no more than once a day, either alone or with other members of the household;
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2020/353/regulation/8/made
I think a distinction needs to be drawn between going off on a jolly to the Peak, Snowdonia, or wherever and driving a couple of miles to a local park, woodland, open space, etc. This seems to me to be fully within the spirit of taking exercise close to your home, and has got to be better than everyone wandering up and down the street outside their houses (both from the virus spreading point of view and the mental health point of view).
Rule 1 applies in any case.
what makes your particular interpretation of the guidelines any less valid than theirs?
This is the nub of the issue. They're guidelines and as such people interpret them differently. The problem is that too many people are too quick to criticise those whose interpretation is different from theirs. Yes, some people are taking the piss but it's a small minority and getting wound up about what others are doing isn't healthy.
and has got to be better than everyone wandering up and down the street outside their houses
No, everyone exercising locally, rather than driving from various locations to a ‘quiet spot’, will reduce the spread.
what makes your particular interpretation of the guidelines any less valid than theirs?
Because they are making unnecessary car journeys against the clear advice. Cycling is specifically allowed.
The advice isn't a buffet, where you just pick the bits out that suit your palate.
Oh… ok. I didn’t realise that from just glancing at a car any police officer could immediately tell how far it had just travelled?
Thats quite a skillset. They’re almost like superheroes. Do they have any other useful superpowers?
I also wasn't referring to the police, I was responding to stevemuzzy's observations about other people's behaviour.
It's definitely better to read posts before you respond to them and respond to the point they've actually made rather than the one you think they've made.
Are you new here?
Wheres the fun in that?
😉
Anyway... I don't see what the difference is. We already know how people act. Like sheep. So if someone thinks that its ok to drive 2 miles, then why can't someone else drive 4 miles? Or 6? What defines a 'short drive'?
The guidance is 'essential travel' only.
It’s interesting that Lord Sumption chose to highlight that “Police State” in his mind refers to not some vast scope of draconian powers given to the Police, but in fact vague powers hastily drawn and interpreted by the Police in the way they think that a Govt would like.
Nick is right to highlight this*
So what? It’s a national catastrophe. We’ve all consented to temporarily live under house arrest for a period of time under rules that in any other circumstances would be widely ignored (and if enforced would lead to the government being forcibly overthrown).
The crisis will end within a year or so. There’s near zero chance the rules will stay in place once the crisis ends and if they do there’s 60 million people who will forcibly ensure the rules end and the army and the police force will be on ‘our’ side.
Really? Just be careful, because if martial law is invoked it may be quite difficult to undo:
*Martial law
Martial law is the imposition of direct military control of normal civilian functions by a government, especially in response to a temporary emergency such as invasion or major disaster, or in an occupied territory.
Typically, the imposition of martial law accompanies curfews; the suspension of civil law, civil rights, and habeas corpus; and the application or extension of military law or military justice to civilians. Civilians defying martial law may be subjected to military tribunal (court-martial).
Martial law will only be invoked if people show they can’t act on advice.
So what is it?
Are you new here?
Wheres the fun in that?
🙂
Oh… ok. I didn’t realise that from just glancing at a car any police officer could immediately tell how far it had just travelled?
To be fair, there is a sequence of numbers and letters on it which gives you a fair idea where it normally lives.
Driving to the Peak District for exercise is not a reasonable excuse. Go for a walk from your door.
Except... I was chatting to a friend last night who lives in South West of Sheffield. If they go down the street or to local park and woods they pass dozens of people (they stopped counting when they hit 100 yesterday). Families, dogs everywhere, kids on bikes, you name it, they are there.
They drove a couple of miles to Peak, parked on edge of road and walked around a slightly unusual path / woodland track. They saw one person.
And the two police officers when they got back to their car who were insistent that they walk only from front door.
My friend questioned this and was told no travel at all, and that any travel should be in a car - he pointed out he is consultant haematologist who doesn't have access to a car as his wife who is physio is not drafted in as a nurse and uses car to get to hospital so he rides (and has done for 10 years) from Sheffield to Rotherham. They said he should go out and buy a second car....
Yes we should all do our bit - but common sense says 'our bit' may be different from others.
Sadly for everyone who 'gets' this balancing act, there seem to be two others who do not get this...
I would also add - I have huge respect for police in this - they are responding to something unprecedented, with a lack of protective clothing, with too many folk being numpties and with a general guidance, not black and white clarity..
Except…
Risk infecting people in your area… or risk spreading it to other areas.
The police are attempting to get the message across that you should not risking spreading the virus because you think you situation is somehow special.
They need our help and support, not have our sense of entitlement thrown back at them.
No, everyone exercising locally, rather than driving from various locations to a ‘quiet spot’, will reduce the spread.
You missed off the first part of my post where I said a couple of miles - I *am* advocating exercising locally. Whether this involves a car or not is irrelevant, and may actually *reduce* the chances of transmission as exemplified in matt’s post above.
Less frothing, more thinking.
People driving a couple of miles to the spot from all directions gives a pretty wide spread that would not occur at anything like the same speed if all those people exercised from their door.
To be fair, there is a sequence of numbers and letters on it which gives you a fair idea where it normally lives.
Maybe they could have drones with numberplate recognition technology like on Hunted, which could deploy stngers to take out any vehicles outside a certain range of their homes without authorisation?
Or maybe they could have a reasonable expectation that people don't act like self-entitled pricks who are somehow exempt from the rules, as theyre so 'special'?
I've never seen one before, no one has, but I'm guessing it's a white hole.
Less frothing, more thinking.
This. And a bit of tolerance and acceptance that you can't control the behaviour of others.
And a recognition that most people are doing what they need to do.
Yes. Think. Drive to places for exercise and you will counteract the efforts being made by everyone else, including the police, to slow the spread.
Maybe they could have drones with numberplate recognition technology like on Hunted, which could deploy stngers to take out any vehicles outside a certain range of their homes without authorisation
I prefer the ones martial law will invoke.
I’ve never seen one before, no one has, but I’m guessing it’s a white hole.
A white hole?
RM.
I prefer the ones martial law will invoke.
