[Closed] Our perception of the homeless

Seems the majority of comments miss the point. The reason I don't give to beggars is that it maintains their situation by funding their addiction.. That's why people walk on by I think
The vast majority want to help people who need help
I'm happy to buy a sandwich give a bus ticket etc but not buy for them their next bag of smack crack

The vast majority want to help people who need help

A dear friend died a few years ago who, at one time in his life was homeless. We set up a just giving page to shelter and got nearly £500

My perception of the homeless has changed recently -

Dave the local big issue seller, came to my 40th birthday do and it turned out he's an excellent MC/rapper but a really creepy lech when he's had a few

[i]I'm happy to buy a sandwich give a bus ticket etc but not buy for them their next bag of smack crack[/i]

Generally I give beggars what I've got in my wallet or pocket which is sometimes some coins, but sometimes its a couple of notes. The act of giving them the money ends the transaction as far as I'm concerned, what they do with [b]their[/b] money is none of my business*

*living on the street must be pretty tough, I'm not sure I wouldn't get smacked to take the edge of it if I was in that situation.

I totally confused a homeless guy in Derby last winter - he was asking for change near the station on a cold early evening. I figured he needed a warm drink more than cash, and popped back, bought him a hot chocolate and handed it to him.

He didn't know whether to thank me or throw it at me.

I deal a lot with hostels and charities providing supported accommodation for the homeless for my work. I'll support their efforts (all except for one) but I won't give cash to people on the streets.

Arguably this may drive them to crime, so my logic may be wrong.

what they do with their money is none of my business

Exactly right.

Just give something, forget the social awkwardness and give.

Came out of St Pancras last winter with a hot chocolate freshly made from Benugo to find a huge guy looking freezing begging for money for a hot drink, no one seemed to bat an eye at this so I gave him mine, he gave me hug that nearly broke my back. Never seen him since around that area, wonder what became of him.

Too easy to be judgemental and suspicious, if I give things to a 'wrong un' every so often so be it, odds are that many will be grateful and it will help.

what they do with their money is none of my business
Exactly right.

Just give something, forget the social awkwardness and give.

But what we do with our money IS our business.

I gave a cake of all things to a bloke on the mean streets of Lewes a few weeks back. He seemed very grateful.

I don't want to buy people fags booze or smack, and that's my choice

Arguably this may drive them to crime, so my logic may be wrong.

Its double edged. Begging puts you in a position where you reveal yourself as vulnerable and declare you've got some coins in your pocket, and that makes you an easy target for crime and exploitation. Thats why homelessness charities try to combat begging as its a catalyst for a whole lot of bigger problems than a bottle of white lighting and some fags.

We just used to give them any drugs we had left on our way home from the clubs

I stopped giving money to Homless people when I saw one pull out a mobile phone as I walked by a few years ago.

Bought a homeless guy who used to beg at our offices a box of mince pies at Christmas though. The £30 my boss gave him to buy a pair of work shoes for a job interview never got spent on the shoes though!

There's a campaign in Bournemouth at the moment, persuading people to not give money to the homeless. "You kindness can kill" is the rather dramatic slogan.

I've variously given
- a t shirt
- coca cola
- hot chocolate
- change
- paid a taxi fare
and most recently bought a pint of milk, some ham slices, cheese slices and bread rolls for a homeless girl in sheffield the other week. she just said she was desperate for a a drink of milk and something to eat.

Sometimes people who are down on their luck just need to know that people care. I reckon that can be enough to give them a step up. Maybe i'm naive.

take home:

Too easy to be judgemental and suspicious, if I give things to a 'wrong un' every so often so be it, odds are that many will be grateful and it will help.

Really needed to hear someone say that.

I stopped giving money to Homless people when I saw one pull out a mobile phone as I walked by a few years ago.

Yeah I stopped eating altogether because once bit into a mouldy tomato.

we have the odd beggar in the town that I live in. from the looks of them they seem to make a reasonable amount out of it.
there's a bit of a turf war going on between them and the influx of Romanian accordion players who have a penchant for bus shelters.

If I've got some shrapnel in my sky-rocket I'll give it. 'There but for the grace of god' etc... I don't care what they spend it on, whatever makes their situation a little more bearable. And as Pook pointed out, I think it's important to show them that some people care.

I give £20 a month to Shelter, but I don't give money to people on the street.

Two incidents on this:

A friend bought a homeless guy (who was asking for "money for some food") a Boots meal deal, he said "can't I have the cash?", and flatly refused it.

A chap approached myself and a friend at a station and asked for "change for a cup of coffee", friend (meaning well) said "I'll just buy you a coffee", homeless gent squared up to him and said "you think you're so clever don't you!?" before skulking off.

Donations to Shelter, material gifts and even buying the Big Issue I'm ok with, but wouldn't just give cash to someone who asked.

i'd prefer to buy a couple of sarnies, ask if can sit and join in watch the world go by for 10 mins, offer a sandwich and cuppa. It's often good to talk to people. Then you'll have a better idea what to do, if to give money, advice, assistance, or even just make a new friend or make someone (including self) feel more human as they are, after all. It often makes me feel more human, it's easy to pass people by these days and that man or woman sitting in a shop doorway is often arguably more 'human' than the 100s of people who skip past or throw a quid.

It will do more good to donate to charity; not saying this is common but does mean the money goes to where it will do the most good:

http://metro.co.uk/2009/08/10/beggars-earning-73000-a-year-328306/

There's been a guy making noises on a tin whistle, complete with shivering dog, outside the shopping mall in Bury for as long as I can remember - it must be ten years, easily. I can't understand why he hasn't managed to find a job.

My son once gave a beggar a Mars bar; the bloke took it then jumped up and ran over to a black Range Rover that had stopped. Said "been waiting ages for you" and jumped in the back door. Cue one disillusioned young man.

I stopped giving money to Homless people when I saw one pull out a mobile phone as I walked by a few years ago.

Right, so the guy has got himself a [url= http://shop.tescomobile.com/pay-as-you-go/mobile-phones/nokia/100?deal=5083 ]potentially very cheap[/url] PAYG phone, a fairly essential item if he wants to find a job and get back on his feet, as well as staying in contact with others while he is on the street.

Not sure why that would put you off helping. Does he need to have absolutely nothing and no hope to be worth helping?

I gave half a denarii to a beggar the other week. He wasn't at all grateful. There's no pleasing some people.

[quote> http://metro.co.uk/2009/08/10/beggars-earning-73000-a-year-328306/
br />

Spot the logical fallacy:

[i]Sgt Adrian Underwood, of Leicestershire Police, said: "On a good Friday or Saturday, some can pick up £200."[/i]

Even if you believe that surprisingly high figure, that isn't remotely "equal to a £73,000-a-year salary tax free" because not all Fridays and Saturdays are [i]"good"[/i] and rumour has it that five other days also exist.

It's almost like The Metro have deliberately extrapolated that soundbite into the most outrageous headline they could manage.

There's a lot of talk about the homeless 'getting a job' etc. It's a bit like trying to shove a square peg into a round hole if you ask me. Not all certainly, but I should imagine some homeless people are there because they simply can't cope with the 'normal' way of life; the rent - the forms - the routine - the endless bureaucracy.

Range Rovers, not giving due to mobile phones, are some of you guys actually believing this stuff you're writing?
Sleeping in negative number temperature, constantly scared of being robbed, beaten up or worse. Most of the time through no choice of their own. Many have mental illness, turn to drink and drugs just to try and numb the life they lead.
Maybe some of you guys would like to sleep on the street in mid January to see what it's like.

Exactly,

I think the whole "I don't give to tramps because they're all secret millionaires" is just an excuse*.

*for being a tight-fisted selfish git.

(and yes I know [url= http://www.buzzfeed.com/richardhjames/the-homeless-man-with-a-bucket-was-an-actor ]the bloke is an actor[/url] but they do that for real without cameras)

There's a campaign in Bournemouth at the moment, persuading people to not give money to the homeless. "You kindness can kill" is the rather dramatic slogan.

Reads more like, "we don't want them here".

There's been a guy making noises on a tin whistle, complete with shivering dog, outside the shopping mall in Bury for as long as I can remember - it must be ten years, easily. I can't understand why he hasn't managed to find a job.

He's become "institutionalised." That's our fault for not giving a monkeys about the down and outs in our "society", and that careless attitude is justified by claiming, they are on drugs, alcohol or making a fair bit of money.

Well perhaps they are. This could have been nipped in the bud if we gave a monkeys.

Seen a guy outside Oxford station ordering drugs on his mobile phone. Also clamped a Big Issue sellers car after he left in the private car park of one of the biggest solicitors in Wales

I've never given money to the homeless. Tried giving food but it's always been rejected. My local church when I was a kid made a big thing of always trying to help them with shelter, food, advice, charity etc. but never money as it would just get wasted.

I gave half a denarii to a beggar the other week.

The blonde lass from Game of Thrones?

because they simply can't cope with the 'normal' way of life; the rent - the forms - the routine - the endless bureaucracy.

You forgot the hours of browsing internet forums whilst at work.....

I can't understand why he hasn't managed to find a job.

How many jobs do you reckon are available to someone who looks (and smells) like Captain Birdseye's mad uncle?

I appreciate that there will be some who don't want to work, but for those who do it must be nigh on impossible to break the cycle. What are you going to do, ask for his CV?

yeah I used to drop people the odd change but now feel OK to walk by without giving stuff in the street knowing my middle class guilt is appeased by my ongoing monthly direct debit small donations to various charities.

I buy the big issue very occasionally though less than i used to as the price seems to be quite high now.
I've fallen for the old 'its my last copy, is there any way i can just have the cash and keep the mag' trick once too (realising later that it wasnt an official seller, just someone who found a used copy).

I've never given money to the homeless. Tried giving food but it's always been rejected. My local church when I was a kid made a big thing of always trying to help them with shelter, food, advice, charity etc. but never money as it would just get wasted.

But who the hell are you to say whether it's wasted? Why shouldn't they spend it on booze/smokes/drugs? If it makes their miserable life slightly more bearable. Food?... food is everywhere in this throwaway society. Go in the big bins behind any supermarket and you'll find as much food as you want.

who the hell are you to say whether it's wasted? Why shouldn't they spend it on booze/smokes/drugs?

And besides, what were you going to spend it on?

Having done a spell a spell as the receptionist in homeless offenders unit all this 'get a jobbery' boils my piss. These are people with serious, multiple problems and no amount of stiff upper lip bollox or well meaning sympathising is going to make the difference for them. They need properly funded support from health and social welfare professionals - but we'd have to pay for for that, so its not going to happen. These people get very little support because of the resources involved. Shelter have nothing to do with rough sleepers as their problems are too intractible and instead focus on people in short term accommodation (worthy in itself) but there's a peception that rough sleepers are supported by a big organisation which they aren't.

And besides, what were you going to spend it on?

Well he earn't it so he can spend it on what he wants, give it to charity, or give it to a homeless person to spend on what he wants. If you want to help the homeless give to a charity, if you want to give them a treat then give to the homeless person directly - it's all fine.

EAT THE RICH

But who the hell are you to say whether it's wasted?

Well as the person giving it or not, of course you make that decision. We make decisions every day whether to give or not to people and companies based on our own particular values, the homeless are not exempt from this.

Homeless people offer opportunities for certain non-homeless to:

1. Make sweeping generalizations and assumptions
2. Sit in judgement from as far away as possible.
3. Have the luxury of enjoying their existing prejudices/projections being fulfilled when observing any 'charlatan'* **

*Most any homeless person or beggar, but especially those who smoke, drink or do drugs.
** Observing any charlatan behaviour in any individual also gets them 'off the hook' so that they never feel bad again about not helping any of the useless cheats that are homeless people. (Homeless?? Hah, they probably make 1000s a week and live in luxury when we aren't looking)

here we go....
all homeless people are not equal.
how are we to recognise who are destitute, who are mentally ill, who are career beggars, who are charlatans?
can we not give to charity and presume that they can distribute the money by providing assitance to those who truly in need?

3 years ago I was diagnosed with a shit mental illness. Since then I have not worked.
I was lucky that I had worked bloody hard prior to being signed off and managed to save a few quid. I am also surrounded by some amazing people.
Should I have not saved and didn't have my loved ones my life could be soo much different.
Who knows, I might have ended up on the streets. How different my life is now.
Just be careful, it could happen to you guys.

but there's a peception that rough sleepers are supported by a big organisation which they aren't.

True, a good friend managed a homeless charity in Southampton for years, and she said as much. Additionally, I think the most unnoticed obstacle towards anyone achieving greater independence (obviousl ones being money, family issues, mental health, substance abuse etc) is the dehumanising, cyclical effect of being cast as social pariah ' having a laugh' at duping us good hard working folks.

'And don't get me started on foreign beggars', etc... 🙄

Just be careful, it could happen to you guys.

very true, many people are only one bad episode of depression / anxiety away from homelessness....

Sadly, a lot of homeless are ex-squaddies.

And as one myself, I can see how easy it would be to slip into it.

To be fair, I was heading in that direction, I'm crap with money, I can't cope that well on my own, I suffer from a "perk of the job" that will never leave me, and was generally in shit state.
If I hadn't met my ( now) wife, I think I would be out there asking for spare change.
Thankfully I've a decent job now, but, yeah.. Its never far from the back of my mind what could have been.

how are we to recognise who are destitute, who are mentally ill, who are career beggars, who are charlatans?

Ask them? I do find women are better at this - Mrs MR (crisis refuge worker, now a counsellor) routinely sits and chats with homeless, has them normally twigged within less than a minute. I'm rubbish at small talk but can always listen.

I once saw a tramp collecting the "buy 10 get one free" tokens off coffee cups in McDonalds and the mananger desperately trying to clear tables before he could get to them.

Bought him a meal and sat there while he ate it just to wind the spitefull cow up.

how are we to recognise who are destitute, who are mentally ill, who are career beggars, who are charlatans?

Wait till it's sub zero and snowing. Those still sat on door steps shivering are the genuine ones. Normally buy them some warm food etc.

routinely sits and chats with homeless,

I've always done the same. I've never been that good at just walking past someone who has called me.
You get to hear some moving stories and meet some remarkable people. I have befriended a few and was even lucky enough to go to a wedding of one chap. I was partly responsible for him meeting his wife.
Giving money monthly or lose change or food sporadically are all good, but it is surprising what can happen when you give a little time or have a bit of a conversation.

These are people with serious, multiple problems

Now hang on, that's as much of a sweeping generalisation as the "they're all charlatans" brigade!

These are people with serious, multiple problems

Now hang on, that's as much of a sweeping generalisation as the "they're all charlatans" brigade!

Do you honestly believe they don't have serious, multiple problems?
They have nothing. They have no roof above their head. They have disassociated from friends and family for whatever problem. They have no money. They have no real idea where the next meal comes from. I could go on. These problems seem quite serious in my eyes.
Sweeping generalisation my arse.

i'm in the states atm. One thing that's struck me is that the majority of the guys in the streets begging are extremely polite. Day after day, they sit and wait and wish people well. They must be very patient.

The other thing i noticed, is that the ones who are begging are really articulate. They don't look or act like crack addicts. Many seem to be former army personnel.

US has bugger all safety net - after 99 weeks on the doll you get absolutely nothing. Combine that with 9% unemployment (some states are much higher) and you have graduates on the street....

Never gave money to the homeless but the other week I gave a lift to a couple of hitchhikers. They were a young Hungarian couple who were touring round Ireland on the cheap with a tent an hitch hiking their way. Told me they had only planned to stay for two weeks but only made it round half the country in that time so they were gonna stay another two. Slightly off topic but I thought it was kinda cool and the first time I ever pulled over to give a lift to a stranger.

Used to be an old alcoholic called Steve The Tramp near Wokingham, Always up to mischief - nice enough, but would wind folk up and was arrested on a monthly basis

Used to buy him a couple of beers or some baccy to make his life a little more bearable

Bought him half a bottle of scotch one lunch time - drove past 2 hours later and he was getting carted away in a Police car - he'd been running amok in the local Co-Op demanding more booze

Not one of my finest ideas! :*

They have nothing. They have no roof above their head.

I was talking about homeless,not beggars as per the title of this thread.
Thanks for giving us a nice story about a guy with a home.