Forum menu
"There are also questions over how further devolution can and would be delivered in the event of a No vote."
There you go Gordi, not that you needed it 😉 came after we wish they would stop talking bllx over currencies, tax, pensions, Uni fees. You know the little stuff....
(Tend to avoid the herald if I can though)
"What part of EU or Scottish law says that EU citizens are not allowed to live in Scotland if Scotland leaves?"
What part of Sturgeon's comments says that?
What part of EU or Scottish law (here, UK migration law) says that EU citizens have a right to live in a non-EU state?
What part of EU or Scottish law (here, UK migration law) says that EU citizens have a right to live in a non-EU state?
You still don't really 'get' this independence concept, do you? An independent Scotland would be in charge of its own immigration policy, you can set your immigration policy to allow anybody you like to stay.
[quote=konabunny ]"What part of EU or Scottish law says that EU citizens are not allowed to live in Scotland if Scotland leaves?"
What part of Sturgeon's comments says that?
[quote=Ms Sturgeon]There are 160,000 EU nationals from other states living in Scotland, including some in the Commonwealth Games city of Glasgow.
If Scotland was outside Europe, they would lose the right to stay here.
If Scotland was outside Europe, they would lose the right to stay here.
UKIP and beyond aside. I don't see either Labour or Conservatives sending home that much cheap labour. Or wanting to pay for the hassle.
I'd wager future restrictions on immigration tightening up. Not deportation. Which is more likely to have an impact on seasonal labour than those normally resident.
Still waiting for the yS bazooka...
It's a skill (?) to make GO look consistently on top of his brief, but Shirley John Swinney can do a bit better than "GO has mishandled te recession" when cornered by questions about tax, pensions, currency etc
C'mon guys at least go down fighting. That was lame. The fiscal commission needs to earn its fees with an updated script for these poor fellows to follow.
Presumably had he been harsher you would have accused him of playing the man or portraying rUK as the bogeyman 😉
JY it is an implied threat towards EU nationals
What it the threat then- can you state it please ? It is a bland statement of the law pertaining to what it would mean if iS was not in the EU. Its the truth basically.
If the EU said if iS is not in the EU then they womt have free movement within the EU or be part of the common market is this also a threat or just a matter of fact?
Talking of the Law, time to add the Law Society of Scotland to the list
Is this now simply a list of groups that have asked questions?
None of the last few have even offered or taken a view on the vote so it has moved beyond tenuous.
What I like most about education is the way students learn to present evidence that supports their view rather than present things and claim they support their view.
It is a bland statement of the law pertaining to what it would mean if iS was not in the EU. Its the truth basically.
Ok, Junky [u]again[/u], which law says that If Scotland was not part of the EU, then EU citizens would lose the right to stay there?
If the EU said if iS is not in the EU then they womt have free movement within the EU or be part of the common market is this also a threat or just a matter of fact?
If Scotland leaves the EU, then as non EU citizens Scots would no longer have freedom of movement within the EU, [b]however [/b]it does not follow that EU citizens would not have freedom of movement in Scotland, that would be entirely choice for the Scottish government,
As has already been said, a non-EU Scotland can set their own immigration policy to allow anybody they like to stay, including EU citizens.
[quote=Junkyard ]What it the threat then- can you state it please ? It is a bland statement of the law pertaining to what it would mean if iS was not in the EU. Its the truth basically.
Well no, because as pointed out, there's no requirement for iS to send EU nationals home when it leaves the EU - that would be something they chose to do. They're certainly within their rights to do so if they want, but the fact they could choose not to do it makes it a threat.
I'm still not sure if Ms Sturgeon realises quite how ludicrous she appears making such threats to an organisation she wants to allow her country to join.
The law is that if you are in the EU you get free movement so when you ask a [mis]leadign questioon liek that then the answer is nonewhich law says that If Scotland was not part of the EU, then EU citizens would lose the right to stay there.
Still i cannot go and live in Canada or the US or Peru because I am an EU citizen so it is a pointless question you ask.
that would be something they chose to do. They're certainly within their rights to do so if they want, but the fact they could choose not to do it makes it a threat
And the EU would that would choose to do the same
TBH I do see the point being made [ it has some merit to be fair*] now but IMHO you have to try pretty hard to get upset by this / see it as a threat.
IMHO they are just the opposite sides of the same coin.
In the EU free movement within the EU and not in the EU not free movement within those countries.
Ie if iS was outside the EU they could also "choose" to ignore this fact but they wont either.
EDIT: I doubt the EU are as sensitive as you folk and wont feel threatened tbh
Hard to quote a law for a country that doesn't yet exists, eh?
I'm not entirely clear on how immigration policy and the right work etc works in law, but surely removing the automatic freedom of movement rights of EU citizens would default to no right, which I assume is the default position for someone who is not a UK (or iScotland) national?
You could argue all day about whether there is a requirement to send people home, but just as Scotland could choose to do it, or not, the EU could can do the same when it comes to Scottish membership. The fact that you two or arguing over this is tiresome and extremely pedantic.
I agree IMHO it smells of trying to find an issue rather than being an issue
I assume we all accept that if iS or rUK leave the EU that free movement [ in both directions] stops.
I dont consider this to be any side threatening anyone tbh but just a statement of fact
Hahahahahah! The wheels have come off and gone rolling down the road 😆
Nicola says:
[i]'There are 160,000 EU nationals from other states living in Scotland, including some in the Commonwealth Games city of Glasgow' 'If Scotland was outside Europe, they would lose the right to stay here.”[/i]
Whereas in the Draft Constitution published by the Scottish Government:
(5) All persons lawfully resident within the jurisdiction of the Kingdom of Scotland on the
date when this Constitution comes into force shall be citizens of the Kingdom. The rules
governing the acquisition and loss of citizenship after that date, by birth, marriage, and
naturalisation, shall be determined by law; provided, that no citizen shall be deprived of
their citizenship, except by a voluntary act of renunciation, or by conviction for treason.
Oh, the SNP have [b]so[/b] thought this one out
[quote=ninfan ]Whereas in the Draft Constitution published by the Scottish Government:
You don't expect her to have read that do you? 😆
[quote=Junkyard ]I assume we all accept that if iS or rUK leave the EU that free movement [ in both directions] stops.
Well no. No particular reason why it should in one direction - only if the country involved actually chooses to do so. Which would admittedly be a fairly logical step if the country leaving the EU doesn't intend to be part of the EU again.
[quote=whatnobeer ]Hard to quote a law for a country that doesn't yet exists, eh?
Ah, the standard catch-all "we don't know how we're doing this despite asking you to vote on something we won't give you the full details of, trust us", because presumably it's not possible to tell the voters what the intended laws of the new country will be. Except that in this case it seems Ms Sturgeon does know what the law of the new country will be (if we ignore the fact she doesn't actually know what the draft constitution says).
I'm not entirely clear on how immigration policy and the right work etc works in law, but surely removing the automatic freedom of movement rights of EU citizens would default to no right
Only if that's what you chose to do. Of course there is in general no such thing as EU law - such things are part of national law, hence the right of free movement is doubtless included in part of current UK law. When iS leaves the EU it would have to repeal laws which are a requirement of the EU if it chose to do so - the default position would surely be to continue to allow free movement.
The fact that you two or arguing over this is tiresome and extremely pedantic.
Well correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't actually us who started this bluster over removing the rights of EU citizens.
All persons lawfully resident within the jurisdiction of the Kingdom of Scotland on the
date when this Constitution comes into force shall be citizens of the Kingdom.
If Scotland wasn't in the EU and didn't make allowances for letting EU nationals stay, then they wouldn't be lawfully resident, so would have to leave.
It's a pretty clear statement of fact given the situation we have at the moment. In the same way you lot making points about Scotland not being able to keep the benefits of UK institutions etc Sturgeon is merely pointing out that without cooperation EU citizens would lose the benefits that they gain when Scotland is in the EU.
If that's threatening then so are all the calls from rUK about not being able to use or share x, y and z.
the default position would surely be to continue to allow free movement.
That's your opinion, I would of thought the default would be to repeal all the acts, treaties and laws from which ever group is being left then choose which ones to keep, not the other way around.
Ninfan, sorry to interrupt your hysterical laughter but that text isn't in the draft constitution- the references to "Kingdom of Scotland" would have tipped you off if you weren't so keen to believe it. It's uncredited but seems to be from someone's blog of a fantasy constitution, written in 2010, for the nonexistant "new caledonia kingdom".
(if ever you wanted proof that aracer and ninfan will accept without question anything they think goes against the Yes campaign, here it is...)
This is just the same nonsense as when the Scottish Government pointed out that EU fishing boats would lose access to Scottish waters. It's not a "threat", it's just a simple statement of the bleedin obvious.
All persons lawfully resident
Not in the EU not lawfully resident there. Its not exactly rocket science.
Aracer IMHO you are trying hard here to find an issue with which to beat them as the Eu could actually choose to not do it as well
No particular reason why it should in one direction - only if the country involved actually chooses to do so.
so your argument is the EU has "no choice" and therefore its not a threat and the iS has a choice and therefore its a threat 😯 I do like to see you apply the same principle to each argument sadly its the what way favours my argument principle rather than a lucid one
I have nothing further to add on the issue
started this bluster over removing the rights of EU citizens.
They said if iS is not in the EU then it is not in the EU and the rules dont apply. this is hardly bluster and tbh I expected better from you
Northwind - taken from the draft constitution on the constitutional commission web site:
When iS leaves the EU it would have to repeal laws which are a requirement of the EU if it chose to do so - the default position would surely be to continue to allow free movement.
Yes all countries everywhere allow free movement across their borders [ without treaties or obligations] and it is clearly the default position of countries 🙄
Really ...c'mon aracer not you as well 😉
[b]It's not a "threat", it's just a simple statement of the bleedin obvious.[/b]
THIS
So NOT as you claimed "the Draft Constitution published by the Scottish Government", which can be found here:
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2014/06/8135/downloads
Well, if I'm wrong I'll apologise - are we saying that the constitutional commission is not official?
The Constitutional Commission are not a part of the scottish government, they're an unaffiliated, independent charity. 10 seconds of factchecking, but tbh it was pretty obviously not the real thing from the wording.
Out of curiosity, what was your source? If you google for scotland constitution you get a load of links to the scottish government website and news stories related... Was it a repost from somewhere else?
The Scottish Constitutional Commission is an independent and non-partisan think-tank, founded in 2005 by John Drummond, Chris Thomson and Canon Kenyon Wright, formerly of the Scottish Constitutional Convention. The Scottish Constitutional Commission conducts research and advocacy on the establishment of a liberal and democratic Constitution for Scotland based upon the sovereignty of the Scottish people.
It is not to be confused with the Commission on Scottish Devolution (Calman Commission) which is an official commission established by the Scottish Parliament to review devolution
Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Constitutional_Commission
Not gloating or anything I did not know a thing about them one way or the other just posted as a fact
[quote=Northwind ]Out of curiosity, what was your source? It's a really obscure link, a google for scottish constitution gives you pages of links to the real thing
Hardly that obscure
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=scotland+draft+constitution
though I'll hold my hand up to not checking when ninfan posted that
First link to it is on P5 for me Aracer, I guess we're being search engine clevernessed. So fair point, I could be wrong on the obscurity.
Well, I can only apologise for the confusion - since there have been several 'official' independent commissions, such as the Calman Commission on Scottish Devolution http://www.commissiononscottishdevolution.org.uk/
[quote=Northwind ]First link to it is on P5 for me Aracer, I guess we're being search engine clevernessed. So fair point, I could be wrong on the obscurity.
First link for me - I'd never searched for such a thing before, so suspect my results might be cleaner than yours, but I have no idea how google's algorithms work.
I can only apologise for the confusion
Respect and well played [ not sarcasm genuine]
Me neither tbh Aracer! I've never looked at the constitution before, but that text just screamed not legit.
Funny bit on the Scottish BBC news this morning. Quick snippet about the potential for a Houston style space port in Scotland and a quote from some UK Gov politician. Then a quote from Alex Salmond along the lines "only in an independant Scotland will space travel become a reality". So do you hear that people - vote Yes and GET TO GO INTO SPACE !!
They really are getting amusingly desperate now. Or that was a misquote from a blatantly biased BBC, depending on your viewpoint. But I think we can all agree it was funny.
Keep up - the spaceport idea was several days ago 😉
If you're looking for funny spaceport-related quotes, Danny Alexander wins with "Scotland has a proud association with space exploration. We celebrated Neil Armstrong's Scottish ancestry when he became the first man on the Moon"
I can't find the quote you mentioned in [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28276525 ]the BBC article[/url].
You can't find the quote I mentioned in the BBC article because it was on the BBC Scotland news this morning Ben, keep up yourself.
Ah, so the BBC is doing it's usual thing of rehashing stories that weren't taken seriously the first time 😉
If Danny Alexander wants to try space travel I will happily pay for a one way ticket 😀
Danny Alexander is a rocket.
Rocket: An idiot, someone who doesn’t really have a good grip on reality.
http://www.glasgowvant.com/glaswegian-dictionary-terms-and-phrases/
😀
John Cowan you naughty fellow
Somebody held on to that dirt for tactical use
Have we done the thing about Better Together's "Grassroots" support yet? the bit where they bus the same bunch of people all over Scotland and hope no-one notices?
Toryglen:
[img] 
[/img]
Glenrothes:
[img] 
[/img]
Gladgow (?!):
[img] 
[/img]
Pollokshields:
[img] 
[/img]
Culloden:
[img] 
[/img]
And if you were wondering where this grassroots support was coming from:
I saw the cinema ads from both sides when they were still on. Cringeworthy.
And NEITHER side even bothered paying lip-service to an inclusion agenda, which is just plain laziness. Every single person in both commercials was white and under 30.(and I would say middle class but that would be an offensive judgement on my part). Or maybe that makes it clear where they think the battle lines are being drawn ?
Hang on, how did that guy on the left sneak in ?? Call the UKIP hotline immediately !!!
I don't think the EU would care two hoots about 160,000 EU citizens living in Scotland, the number is just too small to be relevant to them. In practical terms most would stay anyway, I can't see Scotland kicking them out.
The EU will care about more budget contributions, the UK possibly won't be able to get a reduction as it already has a clawback and an iS can pay in more as a new rich member state.
You can't find the quote I mentioned in the BBC article because it was on the BBC Scotland news this morning Ben, keep up yourself.
The quote from AS was a direct response to Danny Alexander's claims of there being a space port in Scotland and came out at the time.
All space chat is a distraction, though the SNP response was a bit silly tbh
And NEITHER side even bothered paying lip-service to an inclusion agenda, which is just plain laziness. Every single person in both commercials was white and under 30.
I agree - though Humza Yousaf (Yes) and Anas Sarwar (No) have been pretty prominent. Doing better on gender equality.
All space chat is a distraction
Aye, the list of sites is really just a list of little-used long runways - because of the closure of bases, it's not surprising that Scotland has a few.
Scotland isn't the best site for a spaceport anyway, we're too far north.
But at least in space, no one can hear you argue..
Scotland isn't the best site for a spaceport anyway, we're too far north.
Unless you're launching satellites on a polar orbit, but I think that's pretty rare.
Have we done the thing about Better Together's "Grassroots" support yet? the bit where they bus the same bunch of people all over Scotland and hope no-one notices?
A campaign group actually going around the country campaigning to voters is hardly headline news is it?
Ok, Junky again, which law says that If Scotland was not part of the EU, then EU citizens would lose the right to stay there?
The reason why you're not getting the answer you think is the right one is because you haven't worked out that the question you have asked is an absurdity. It also keeps changing. It also isn't sure of its tense. It also confuses the right of a person to live in a state with permission to live in a state. It also supposes that the absence of a person's right to live in a state creates some sort of obligation upon the state to remove them.
But apart from all that, Zero 11, it was a really insightful question.
[url= http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/independence-juncker-deals-blow-to-scots-eu-plans-1-3477066 ]More bluff and bluster[/url]
Maybe some of the Scottish MEPs should have backed Cameron?
Don't worry, rUK will leave the EU and we will take it's place 😉
If I'm honest I'd be more worried about that statement that Barosso, but I still wouldn't put it past the EU fudging it for all the reasons already discussed.
The SNP still seem confused about how independence works
The SNP has insisted that Scotland is already in the EU
What it the threat then- can you state it please ? It is a bland statement of the law pertaining to what it would mean if iS was not in the EU. Its the truth basically.
In response to junkyard the threat is to the EU and EU citizens currently in Scotland. It must be unsettling enough already with the amount of anti-EU news from UKIP and then the SNP start making their own scare stories up. If Scotland can't immediately join the EU then they will undoubtedly go through the joining process and kicking out EU nationals would not gain them any good favour. Who would of thought the SNP would use project fear tactics with the EU?
aracer Its like deja vu all over again ....how many times have we done this one then?
EDIT:
the threat is to the EU and EU citizens currently in Scotland.
What threat? you seem to be calling facts a threat. Only those in the EU apply EU rules to say this is not to threaten anyone it is just a fact.
the SNP start making their own scare stories up
So they wont really do it ? Whatever they say you just attack.
So your claim is if they are not in the EU then they wont really ask EU nationals to leave, they will honour the obligations of the treaty they are not in and to say otherwise is a scare story? Interesting it is almost as if you hate them
[b]If[/b] Scotland can't immediately join the EU then they will undoubtedly go through the joining process
Big IF , they might - its probably the most likely but it is not undoubted.
and kicking out EU nationals would not gain them any good favour. Who would of thought the SNP would use project fear tactics with the EU?
Your irght why cann they not spread positivity like you have here eh
Even when they just state facts the no voters who cannot vote get outraged
teh lack of any hint of objectivity in this debate is somewhat chastening
otherwise bright and articulate individuals reduced to this....I may even flounce if you keep it up 😛
[quote=Junkyard ]aracer Its like deja vu all over again ....how many times have we done this one then?
Another day, another EU official telling [s]the SNP[/s] yS that iS joining the EU won't be as easy as they [s]think[/s] claim to the electorate.
What threat? you seem to be calling facts a threat.
If I was an EU worker from another country living/working in the UK I would feel threatened by the amount of anti EU comments in the press. I would feel that my right to reside and work were under threat.
Big IF , they might - its probably the most likely but it is not undoubted.
Taken directly from the white paper.
[i]The Scottish Government, supported by the overwhelming majority of Members of the Scottish Parliament, believes that membership of the EU is in the best interests of Scotland. It is our policy, therefore, that an independent Scotland continues as a member of the EU.[/i]
Not much doubt there.
teh lack of any hint of objectivity in this debate is somewhat chastening
My original comment noted that UKIP and the main UK parties have all been guilty of anti-EU sentiment and I pointed out that the SNP were now at it as well. You missed the point old bean, put your reading glasses and try to engage your brain next time.
Only those in the EU apply EU rules
Switzerland?
My original comment noted that UKIP and the main UK parties have all been guilty of anti-EU sentiment and I pointed out that the SNP were now at it as well.
What have the SNP said that could count as anti-EU sentiment? I think all they've said is that if Scotland isn't in the EU then we won't have to comply with EU treaties. Pretty obvious, really. Of course it'll all be sorted out by sensible people after the referendum so there will be a smooth transition.
Oh look, Better Together misrepresenting things again:
[img] 
[/img]
Of course we need to join the EU after independence. How else is the social benefits bill going to get paid once the oil (and tax revenue) runs out?
That fellas from the Beeb, it'll all be lies.
What have the SNP said that could count as anti-EU sentiment?
[url= http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/sturgeon-warns-europeans-could-lose-right-to-stay-1-3475453 ]“There are 160,000 EU nationals from other states living in Scotland, including some in the Commonwealth Games city of Glasgow.If Scotland was outside Europe, they would lose the right to stay here.” [/url]
When you combine this with comments from UKIP, Tories, Labour etc it really is unfair on people from other EU countries to be dragged into politics. I don't think the SNP would kick them out if they did not get automatic entry to the EU, I just think it is negative, project fear tactics to try to appeal to the Scottish electorate.
So stating a fact of law is project fear?
The SNP is one of the most pro-EU parties, why else is there all the argument about whether an independent Scotland would be in the EU? Especially now that the Westminster reshuffle has kicked out the few pro-European people in the cabinet.
The SNP is one of the most pro-EU parties
I agree totally with your comment but I think Sturgeon has let the SNP down with her comment. I would have thought the SNP would be trying to woo the EU not using implied threats to force their agenda. Whatever way you look at it Ben it was a negative comment regardless of whether it is a fact or not.
It could equally be seen as a warning of what could happen if the anti-EU Westminster government gets its way.
If I was an EU worker from another country living/working in the UK I would feel threatened by the amount of anti EU comments in the press. I would feel that my right to reside and work were under threat.
What if you are scottish and resident in the EU and currently an EU citizen. Is the EU threatening you or just stating facts? That me BTW there [ assuming rUK stays in the EU. My right to reside here may be complicated by that for example. They are threatening me right ?
It is our policy, therefore, that an independent Scotland continues as a member of the EU.
Offers no opinion on if they would apply but who knows what they would do if thwarted in continuing tbh. It is probably the best guess to assume they will but it is not certain.
My original comment noted that UKIP and the main UK parties have all been guilty of anti-EU sentiment and I pointed out that the SNP were now at it as well. You missed the point old bean, put your reading glasses and try to engage your brain next time.
You might wish to give me an example of folk being objective on this thread about both yes and no. I see little of that from either side. There are a few hundred pages I think you will be lucky to get 10 posts 😉
FWIW I am pro european and agree with the rest about the sickening levels of anti EU bias displayed daily in the media and by parties in general. I do not think stating a fact is an example of this tbh.
Are people considering what the EU will be like if Scotland is in the EU and rUK is not? I don't think Yes voters are considering this. The EU will be far weaker without the rUK, meaning the EU we seek to be a member of is a diminished organisation over what it is currently. I would like to be in the EU with the whole of the UK. I also reckon a pro European Scotland MAY tip the balance in any in/out referendum.
Who is to say that the EU (in its current form) will still exist in 5 years time? The hiccups at Espírito Santo are just one sign that the turmoil is merely bubbling away just under the surface.
But it is an example of the extreme nature if this folly/vanity project that anyone would propose leaving a union that works well for one that has doesn't and by design cannot. Among the many bizarre aspects of this whole charade that is one of the most absurd.
Perhaps the theory and practice of optimum currency areas wasn't taught in AS's day. Pity, it should be required for any economist.
The most interesting aspect of Ms Sturgeon's comments is surely that those 160,000 EU nationals resident in Scotland would like to stay in Scotland, Ms Sturgeon has just told them that in the event of a yes vote they'd be kicked out and the eligibility rules for the referendum mean they all get a vote! If I've worked it out correctly that's 4% of the electorate.
Sturgeon just got confused, leave her be. It's tough enough swimming in the big boys pool without removing her arm bands.
If Scotland can't immediately join the EU then they will undoubtedly go through the joining process and kicking out EU nationals would not gain them any good favour.
There is zero chance that a newly independent Scotland is going to attempt to deport 160,000 people. Even establishing their visa eligibility would be a massive undertaking. It's just not going to happen.
Are people considering what the EU will be like if Scotland is in the EU and rUK is not?
There is zero chance that the UK will leave the EU. Discussing is futile. It's just not going to happen.
The EU will be far weaker without the rUK
I don't think the EU would be far weaker without the UK.
It would be a bit inconvenient for iScotland if rUK wasn't in the EU but iScotland was, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.
Ms Sturgeon has just told them that in the event of a yes vote they'd be kicked out
She just said what would happen if iS was not in the EU she did not say this at all as we do not know if they will be in the EU or not. Can i post the picture yet?
There is zero chance that the UK will leave the EU. Discussing is futile. It's just not going to happen
I wish i shared your optimism but a vote would be closer than this one IMHO as surveys show it is pretty even. Its has to be considered a possibility rather than a zero chance scenario
aracer - MemberMs Sturgeon has just told them that in the event of a yes vote they'd be kicked out
Ehhhh no.
There is zero chance that the UK will leave the EU.
I think that might be a slight exaggeration. An Opinium/Observer opinion poll 3 weeks ago concluded :
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/21/eu-referendum-majority-leave-opinium-observer-poll ]British people favour leaving the European Union[/url]
I think "unlikely" would be a rather more measured and sober assessment than "zero chance".
Sturgeon has just told them that in the event of a yes vote they'd be kicked out
No, she didn't.
Better Together opened a shop in Kirkcaldy - the upstairs neighbours weren't too impressed:
[url= https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2909/14668901865_9b917e0a78_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2909/14668901865_9b917e0a78_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
😀
I prefer the celebrity love bombing video.
I don't think the EU would be far weaker without the UK.
The UK has the third largest economy in the EU, It has one of the leading financial sectors in the world. We also still have a strong armed forces, are a nuclear power, have a permanent seat on the UN security council and strong relations with other non-EU democracies.
So it would be a massive blow to the EU if the UK left.
I imagine at least half of the EU would help us pack tbh and our relations are not that strong as the Junkers vote showed.
Problems is we are also a lone wolf at the edges of all they want to do constantly sniping and maoning and not wanting to play the same game.
We are like the star striker who sulks all game and them moans when no one passes to them , does no work for the team throughout the game and says they cannot do without us.
The strong financial sector is not much liked by the EU [ centre of secrecy and tax evasion] and e opposed legislation on this. I imagine frankfurt would happily take over for the EU
I dont think they want the UK to leave but i dont think they would be heart broken either.
Personal opinion there JY. Have you run out of facts? 😉