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I'm curious as to what the more hard line yes voters amongst us(you know who you are) are thinking of the increase in chatter about Devo +I'm guessing "we've heard this before, and we don't trust it to happen, and it's not what we want" to varying degrees?
Yup, that's basically it. If they were serious about more devolution, there would have been legislation in place by now, it would have featured in the Queen's Speech, it would be on the referendum ballot, the details of exactly what was being offered would already be down in black and white.
Instead, with less than 3 months to go, we have a bunch of people standing on Calton Hill with purple letters.
The No side thought it was in the bag. There was no way people in Scotland would ever vote for independence, so no need to offer any more devolution. Now they're hoping a last-minute vague promise will convince people they're serious.
We fell for that one last time:
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Once you strip that out it seems very possible the Scots could elect a centre-right government.
Certainly possible - Scotland was a Conservative stronghold for a long time. Might happen again if the aim of reindustrialising Scotland works.
it is of course possible an independent Scotland could have a right wing government
Anything is possible even Ben voting No or THM praising AS 😉
You know, I'm a strong Yes person on here because, well, I like a good argument. But sometimes I do think that if there's a No vote it's not all that bad - we'll muddle along pretty much as we are, and "better the devil you know" is a strong argument, especially with family and business to think about.
And we can always have another referendum in 2024 😀
Ben, joking apart, AS has already won in one sense. The Westminster elite is now bending over backwards to stress how much extra power will be devolved - partly a good thing, but partly because that cannot engage with BSers like salmond and Farrage. What is on offer with the no vote is now much closer to the vision outlined in the BoD than voting yes. Of course that is also because the BoD is not a manifesto for independence anyway.
But the answer is blindingly obvious re where the vote should be on the 18th since both parties are ultimately pointing in the same direction (intentionally or not). No one has yet put forward an coherent or a convincing argument for yes not even yS.
Good article in yesterday's FT on this.
In separate news, Strathcylde Uni is arguing that a UK rise in IR will hurt the Scottish economy. Gosh, the earth is round!!! And here is yS wanting to have a currency union that will make this even worse by having a foreign power setting rates. You couldn't make it up!
A London-centric monetary policy is bad enough but to replace it with a foreign-country one is absurd.
THM , ignoring your usual barbs about AS [ Really we have got it], you are correct that UKIP and the SNP have managed to frame the agenda and move the main parties towards their view.
And we can always have another referendum in 2024
I reckon there's likely to be one of them if you vote Yes as well... 😉
I can see it now, all sending postcards to your friends in rUK, saying 'we're sorry, please take us back' 😆
Has it ever occurred to Scots that the rest of the UK already see Scotland's relationship in the union as unequal and any more powers devolved to Scotland result in even more inequality? I personally don't want an English parliament to address this either, I prefer less government where possible. If you don't like the union as it is then surely a vote for independence is the best way to change Scotland rather than waiting to see if any more powers are given to Scotland. If the union is to be changed in any way I really think all parts of the UK should be given a vote on it.
Absolutely, devolution is a fudge. We really want federalism, a complete redesign of the system.
If that was on offer (and polls show that 70% of Scots would want it) then independence would be a non-starter.
I think you have pretty well answered yourself piemonster.I'm curious as to what the more hard line yes voters amongst us(you know who you are) are thinking of the increase in chatter about Devo +
In addition to that the tory proposal still leaves the majority of income raising under westminster control. The Labour party want to retain Barnett,Liberals want to reform it , but the Tory proposal has nothing to say about Barnett. To me devo max seems to be westminster offering to give the Scottish government a job, but taking half the tools out of the tool box. Thats if you could trust them to deliver in the first place
Never thought of myself as"hardcore" until now 8)
Hardcore you know the score
Boom tish boom tish boom tish boom tish
An article just appeared on BikeBiz about Scottish independence:
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/how-does-the-bike-trade-feel-about-scottish-independence/016522
And I wrote an opinion that might appear in the article:
The business arguments against independence I've seen so far are quite short-term - worries about which currency an independent Scotland will use, concerns about how quickly an independent Scotland will have EU membership, things like that. I think we need to be thinking longer term. Most people are agreed that the increasing inequality in the UK isnt't good for most people, and neither is the increasing concentration of wealth in the City of London.With independence, something can be done about that - there are plans to try to reindustrialise Scotland, which are perhaps over-ambitious, but it's a good aim. It would not only help Scotland, it would act as a new focus of trade for the North of England too. We will have a currency to use, we will have EU membership, and we will have a strong economy - some temporary teething troubles need to be planned for, but should not influence the decision.
There is a lot of talk about unknowns - the worry is that there are too many unknowns with independence, but there are unknowns if Scotland stays in the UK too. As a business, I import from across Europe, and also sell to Europe as well - the biggest political concern I have at the moment is that the UK is moving away from Europe, and may well leave the EU. This would have a serious effect on my business, making it more expensive to both import and export.
This is too big to view it on purely business terms, however. The Westminster system of government is broken, with a lower house full of millionaires and an unelected upper house, and political parties all trying to outdo themselves to appeal to the narrow right-wing demographic that they think will give them power - meanwhile everyone else is turned off politics, and election turnout falls further and further. Something needs to be done about it, and the only option on the table is independence - I would have preferred a federal system of government for the whole UK, but that's not been offered. Will my daughter grow up as I did, feeling that there was little point voting as our votes had no influence? I hope not. Will she grow up with huge sums being spent on nuclear weapons based less than 30 miles from our house, instead of on schools and hospitals? I hope that won't happen either.
Carry on 😀
bencooper - Member
Absolutely, devolution is a fudge. We really want federalism, a complete redesign of the system.If that was on offer (and polls show that 70% of Scots would want it) then independence would be a non-starter.
Sadly that is not what you are going to get anyway and AS proposals remain a mile away. If he had the balls to start with an independent currency (with its pros and cons) that would be a start. Instead it's obvious that he is actually scared of the notion of full independence.
He wants power not reform
Currency is a long term issue.
He wants power not reform
this !
piemonster - MemberI'm curious as to what the more hard line yes voters amongst us(you know who you are) are thinking of the increase in chatter about Devo +. I'm guessing "we've heard this before, and we don't trust it to happen, and it's not what we want" to varying degrees?
In a nutshell. Obviously there's an element of "won't be fooled again" but even without the history, there's every reason to assume it's all cobblers. Why else would we get noncommittal handwavey messages about devolution but nothing in the Queen's Speech? These are the guys who have the power to deliver, but they're choosing not to, and they're very carefully avoiding even promising anything. TBF I'd expected empty promises but we're not even getting that!
Remember a few weeks back, there was a bit of a stumshy about a government independence poll? That poll was taken out and funded by the Westminster devolution team. So we're hearing about how we'll get more devolution, but the reality is the people who're supposed to be responsible for devolution are working on the No campaign instead.
It's not impossible we'd get more devolution but you'd have to be a mug to vote No on that expectation without something written in blood.
it's obvious that he is actually scared of the notion of full independence.
Is that The BBC and the exam board on the phone asking for your impartial views? That is not true as you well know and you cannot actually consider this to be the case
He wants power not reform
Is he is scared or is he craving power ? Which is it? You cannot even use entirely made up ad homs here you hate him that much you are posts are contradicting each other.
To claim he just wants power is stupid and, as you are not stupid,why are you saying this? You really need to re introduce yourself to reality where AS is concerned;your views are passing from the ludicrous and edging towards the deranged.
You really need to get a grip here.
He has worked all his life to achieve an independent scotland within the SNP . He knows the best way to have achieved power would have been to join another party. Instead he has worked for a minority party, with a minority issue, gained some form of devolution, gained power in Scotland [ a system designed to avoid him getting it tbh] and become the leader and then got a referendum. he has achieved power but his goal is still independence. It is like claiming Mandela wanted power rather than a free south africa , it really is that bad.
What next he smells of wee and worships satan? it is about all you have left to throw at him
These are the guys who have the power to deliver, but they're choosing not to,
The Scottish government can 'deliver' on tax rates tomorrow, they could alter the rate of income tax by up to three pence, [u]but have chosen not to[/u]
Indeed, the SNP have previously campaigned on the very issue of income tax rates, however once they got the power, they have not used it...
Perhaps the UK government want to see them use the powers they've got, plus the ones they're due to get soon anyway, before offering them more?
Ninfan The cost of administering a marginal rise in income tax would use a large per centage of any increase in the Scottish government tax take not just my opinion but this man's as well.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26630498 ]Douglas Fraser BBC Scotland Economic Correspondent[/url]
Now if Scotland were taking 100% of taxes then the cost of administering changes in the income tax rate would be much less significant.
Junkyard wins the hysterical rant of the week award.
Few too many beers after work?
It's the hunger FNF. If you don't feed, the hunger reaches unbearable levels!!
Very funny though.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/18/ed-balls-currency-union-independent-scotland-sterling-zone ]ed balls will resign if there is a union and he is chancellor...surely we can all agree this is at least one plus to it 😉 [/url]
faster feel free to try your best in explaining why what I said was untrue, I need a laugh tbh. Even THM , and he is far brighter than you, has the sense to not try.
EDIT: Crossedposts but most amusing
THM reporting me for trolling and we can see if you tell the truth or if your conduct is "unbecoming" ...go on them
Your claim is false as you well know ...what do we call someone who repeats claims they know are false?
It's not impossible we'd get more devolution but you'd have to be a mug to vote No on that expectation without something written in blood.
Still a better bet than voting yes.
Your claim is false as you well know ...what do we call someone who repeats claims they know are false?
Oh,oh,me Sir! Is it a liar?
[quote=Junkyard ]ed balls will resign if there is a union and he is chancellor...surely we can all agree this is at least one plus to it
It certainly poses an interesting dilemma
Take balls out of the political arena and he makes some good points at times. Of course, he is spot on re the CU. Sad that his alter ego is so appalling. Forgot all his economics training while in power (for which he should never be forgiven) but at least he has remembered the basics now. He could give the DO some tutorials on the basics of how currencies work.
JY, I didn't say it was untrue I said it was rant of the week. Reread it, you sounded like a man possessed. As for you questioning my intelligence didn't I have to pull you up for using out of date figures recently? Wouldn't an intelligent person check their facts first? Although I am sure you are intelligent, at least in your own opinion anyway.
I didn't say it was untrue I said it was rant of the week. Reread it, you sounded like a man possessed
you said hysterical rant whilst suggesting i was drunk actually so it is hysterical , pissed and possessed but true DO you expect anyone to believe this you just want to argue because you are still smarting over the straw man thing. Move on please.
you complained when I quoted from an article we were discussing and then claimed their figures were mine.didn't I have to pull you up for using out of date figures recently
I considered that to be so daft it did not even warrant a reply. That you consider it a win for you rather proves my point. They were not my figures, my article , my point or my link and i even added 😛 to show I was taking the piss with the point. Apart form that yes you totally pwned me there and I was right shown up by you.
Really do we have to do this
Lets at least choose something real to disagree over eh.
FWIW I have no animosity towards you so do we have to do this?
Lets move on please.
To me devo max seems to be westminster offering to give the Scottish government a job, but taking half the tools out of the tool box.
rather.....
To me, a yes vote seems to be Holyrood confirming MSPs jobs, but throwing nearly all of the (necessary and important) tools out of the box (and over the wall)
And this is meant to be hardcore?!?
[FNF did you hear the whoosh? 😉 ]
Makes chicken noises and the boy who cries [s]wolf [/s] troll
Defend what you say then THM ? You cannot it and you know it.
You are a pathetic intellectual coward who says troll rather than attempt to defend your bunkum claims [ I am still sober FTF 😉 ]
Its clearly BS to claim AS just wants power rather than to accept he is, and always has been, committed to scottish independence. Even you know this and it's not even close to a defendable position. its why you have not even tried.
Why say stuff you cannot defend?
JY you backing down even 1% I will take as a win, so just this once I will let it slide 8).
THM devo max would be a disaster. It would allow holyrood to do as it pleases while knowing that it could always rely on Westminster to bail it out. For Holyrood to retain credibility it either needs not enough powers to get out of its depth (ie the current scenario) or to know if it makes any mistakes no one is coming to the rescue (full independence). If Holyrood ever needed bailing out by the UK I can't imagine there would not be a cry to take powers back. I do think it is independence or nothing, but I am open discussion on this.
You are a pathetic intellectual coward ....
I see this thread is still chugging along nicely.
cheers I have no issue with you- I do admit when i am wrong- but it is rare [ as it is for us all on here generally]. We are all opinionated so it is rare but I am far from perfect and I am open to change*. I have changed my mind in a few issue in STW helmets and Nukes springs to mind. I
THM i have no issue with you either, despite what you think, except on this thread where you make indefensible claims or do what you object to.
I think if it is a close no vote they will moan/ ask/ beg/ plead for it
the closer the vote the stronger their claim
Will whomever is in power next give it them - I am not sure tbh.
they wont have another vote that is for sure. Its hard to see, perhaps like the EU, that any outcome will put the issue to bed as the population is fairly evenly split and the vote will be [ relatively for a two horse options] close
* TBH were i voting on this i would be an undecided now. I started off happy to vote for anything that removed the Tories but even I am wavering as there is a lot of needless complication re currency, defence, borders etc, Federalism would be a better choice IMHO. SHHH dont tell everyone though. Hell even THM has convinced me on [ most of ]the economic issues
yes fair point ernie that was OTT and i apologise for it- I should have worded it less harshly /nicer. Defend what you say or dont but the troll jibe is weak IMHO.
Nonetheless that was not OK to say.
THM sorry for that comment it was not acceptable and I retract it.
Mods feel free to edit it out and this if required.
THM devo max would be a disaster. It would allow holyrood to do as it pleases while knowing that it could always rely on Westminster to bail it out.
Quite, as would other aspects of the arguments such as CU. That is pretty clear and a reason on the unanimity of political opposition south of the wall to the CU proposal. But there are some merits - as mentioned much earlier, I am a supporter in general of devolved power as a starting point be it countries, regions, local communities, even schools.
For Holyrood to retain credibility it either needs not enough powers to get out of its depth (ie the current scenario) or to know if it makes any mistakes no one is coming to the rescue (full independence).
Again, I broadly agree. I would have few(er) qualms about the later although I think that the current scenario is on balance better for both sides.
If Holyrood ever needed bailing out by the UK I can't imagine there would not be a cry to take powers back. I think it is independence or nothing, but I am open discussion on this.
"Sensible" discussion only though - that is the current problem, the debate has been incorrectly framed (quite deliberately by yS). Not even yS put forward a case for independence. They themselves continue to argue why it is better for Scotland to be integrated into wider economic regions - first by abdicating economic policy to rUK via a CU and utlimately to Brussels via the €. By any standards that is "some" admission that highlights the folly of this whole exercise. The main proponents do not actually want what is on offer. What a waste.......
THM devo max would be a disaster. It would allow holyrood to do as it pleases while knowing that it could always rely on Westminster to bail it out.
Out of interest, does anyone how does the US handle devolved powers for the individual states.
What sort of federal bailout/guarantees are there?
I sort of remember the discussion when the Eurozone group were bailing out Greece and the like, there was talk of what would the US Federal Gov do if a state got itself in similar trouble?
Well having just listened to the first broadcast of "Crossfire" on radio scotland, I am glad to say there was no sign of labour front bencher Kezia Dugdale. The story is she pulled out. What ever happened I am glad that BBC Scotland is not paying a shadow minister during the run up to the referendum.
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Oops 😀
oof!
@jota - it's possible for individual US states and indeed counties within states to go bust. I am a bit surprised the EU didn't allow Greece to default in the same way a US state could but it was seen to be too much of a loss of face and there was a contagion danger to Italy and Spain which would have been a much bigger deal.
@ben - that's quite amusing, if the Channel Islands are not shown (and they are not) then neither should the IOM be.
bencooper - MemberOops
FFS 😆
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10923451/Independent-Scotland-could-not-charge-English-students-tuition-fees.html ]Independent Scotland 'could not charge English students tuition fees'[/url]
More SNP dreams are shattered. In the event of independence I would like to thank Scots for providing English students with free degrees.
FNF - great, at this rate even I could become a yS supporter. Four years of great education in lovely places and for free. Go Alex Go! 😉
Yet one more piece of BS bites the dust. Thank goodness we didn't have a drinking game on it - that was just the 3 Bs
teamhurtmore - MemberYet one more piece of BS bites the dust.
Not really.
Once Scotland leaves the EU they can do whatever they like.
Meanwhile, Alastair Darling has wimped out of a debate with Alex Salmond:
Darling had previously said that he would be willing to debate "any time, anywhere".
Darling had previously said that he would be willing to debate "any time, anywhere".
But Salmond won't ? Why is he refusing have the debate with Alistair Darling on July 16 insisting that he will only debate with Cameron on that date ?
Salmond/SNP/Yes Camp appear to be more concerned with posturing, theatricals, and grandstanding, than getting on with the debate.
If he's available to debate with Cameron on July 16 then he is very clearly available to debate with Darling on July 16. Darling is right not to allow Salmond play silly games and to change the date of the debate to suit his posturing. Salmond needs to learn that he can't always bully and dictate.
bencooper - MemberMeanwhile, Alastair Darling has wimped out of a debate with Alex Salmond:
Are we reading the same article?
Honestly Ben, in the nicest possible way, you are mental.
Well the article I'm reading says:
The pro-UK Better Together campaign withdrew from the contest
Now you can argue if you like about whether their reason for pulling out is valid or not, but the basic fact is that they pulled out.
Mr Darling, Better Together’s leader and the former Labour Chancellor, had accepted an invitation from the broadcaster to debate Mr Salmond on July 16.
The pro-UK campaign said it was told by STV that the date was “firmly set” and it was “not willing to enter into negotiations with either campaign on the timing”.
However, Better Together said the broadcaster immediately bowed to Mr Salmond’s request to move it to a later date despite him being available on July 16.
The First Minister has said he would go head-to-head with David Cameron on that date but he would not debate Mr Darling until after the Glasgow Commonwealth Games
Mr Darling has accepted another invitation for a debate on the BBC on August 12 but it was not known whether the First Minister would participate.
I've trimmed the article for you into the relevent bits. Have another go.
Why is he refusing have the debate with Alistair Darling on July 16 insisting that he will only debate with Cameron on that date ?
Simples! He wants to debate with the organ grinder, not the monkey.
Now you can argue if you like about whether their reason for pulling out is valid or not, but the basic fact is that they pulled out.
The date was set, Salmond pulled out.
Another date has been agreed to by BT, Salmond is yet to agree to it.
I've trimmed the article for you into the relevent bits. Have another go.
Impressed as I am by your copy and paste skills, I'm still struggling to see where it says anyone other than Better Together pulled out of the debate.
Guardian reports it completely differently
Obviously that could just be the biased London-based media spin though, of course...
The First Minister has said he would go head-to-head with David Cameron on that date but [b]he would not debate Mr Darling[/b]
I'm not sure I can make it any easier for you to comprehend.
So Salmond should have an open offer to debate anyone on whatever date Better Together want? If BT want to send the office cat, Salmond should still debate with it? The offer always was Cameron on the 16th, or Darling at a later, more convenient date.
Presented with that, Better Together pulled out, as it says in the article.
Even offering to debate with Darling is a pretty big concession - as head of Better Together, Darling should be debating with the head of Yes Scotland, Dennis Canavan, who has always been more than willing. But BT don't want that either.
So Salmond should have an open offer to debate anyone on whatever date Better Together want? If BT want to send the office cat, Salmond should still debate with it? The offer always was Cameron on the 16th, or Darling at a later, more convenient date.Presented with that, Better Together pulled out, as it says in the article.
Even offering to debate with Darling is a pretty big concession - as head of Better Together, Darling should be debating with the head of Yes Scotland, Dennis Canavan, who has always been more than willing. But BT don't want that either.
You know it's stuff like that convinces me just how bankrupt of any sensible arguments the Yes camp really are.
It's all meaningless posturing that has absolutely nothing to do with the real debate.
You know it's stuff like that convinces me just how bankrupt of any sensible arguments the Yes camp really are.
I think I'll hold back on replying, lest I be banned.
The worst thing is I genuinely believe Ben [i]isn't[/i] trolling, just straight up delusional.
fasternotfatter - Member
Independent Scotland 'could not charge English students tuition fees'More SNP dreams are shattered. In the event of independence I would like to thank Scots for providing English students with free degrees.
POSTED 3 HOURS AGO #
So how does that sit with the constant crowing and assertions on this thread that we will not be in the EU? Take your time...
So how does that sit with the constant crowing and assertions on this thread that we will not be in the EU? Take your time...
By "crowing and assertions" I take it you mean what is already written into European law?
Already covered:
Once Scotland leaves the EU they can do whatever they like.
It wasn't your post I was referring to,but are you saying that two of your fellow anti independence contributors to this thread might be...well,wrong?
It's all meaningless posturing that has absolutely nothing to do with the real debate.
+1
Ben isn't trolling, I agree, but would prefer misguided (unsurprisingly given the BS spouted by yS) rather than delusional which is a trifle rude don't you think? AS has tricked lots of people the same way (including real cyber nats and trolls)
Ah,you are up! So THM,could you clear something up for me,you spent as lot of time (and a great deal of imagination making up interesting nicknames) telling us we would not be in Europe,yet on the last page you talk about a free education and "another piece of BS biting the dust" as an EU member Scotland would not be able to refuse English students,so which is it you believe in?
bencooper - Member
Meanwhile, Alastair Darling has wimped out of a debate with Alex Salmond:Darling had previously said that he would be willing to debate "any time, anywhere".
POSTED 7 HOURS AGO #
I think you'll find this is a good example of everyone involved being a prick.
Anyway, God save the Queen.
Coz I certainly won't. She can **** off.
You mean it, maaaan.
you spent as lot of time ... telling us we would not be in Europe,
Hate to point out your on-going compulsion to misrepresent yet again ducks, but I think you will find that I have spent little time on that specific topic (other than quickly pointing out the obvious BS, but that's v simple)
yet on the last page you talk about a free education and "another piece of BS biting the dust" as an EU member Scotland would not be able to refuse English students,so which is it you believe in?
Shall I draw the tongue in cheek next time? I would love to avoid the £36-50k bill that I would face if THM minor chooses to go to a Scottish Uni. Go Alex Go (tongue swapped to the other side there)
The worst thing is I genuinely believe Ben isn't trolling, just straight up delusional.
I know, that weird delusion where I can read and understand the words of a newspaper article 😉
You do know that when you start insulting your opponent, you've already lost the argument?
Anyhow, isn't it interesting that Better Together pull out of a debate on STV right after they're offered one on the BBC? Neither broadcaster is brilliant, but STV are getting noticeably more balanced in their independence reporting, whereas the BBC is getting worse.
All-in-all a rather tawdry and unedifying little spat there - good job the issue isn't that important. (Ducks, it's back on the other side here, just in case)
Personally, I find it quite odd that the PM of my country doesn't think that Scottish independence is an issue worth having a debate about. Of course Cameron isn't stupid, he knows that there's no way he can win a debate with Salmond, but he can't come out and say that. So instead we have the odd situation where he alternates between making pronouncements on independence and then saying it's an issue for the Scottish people only.
Hud yer wesht Ben,You will be getting accused of being at best misguided.
My ongoing compulsion to "mis-represent" pales into insignificance to your inability to remain consistant in your BS.
I have spent little time on that specific topic (other than quickly pointing out the obvious BS, but that's v simple)
Maybe read back the huge quantities of cutting and pasting you were doing early on in this thread and the links to various experts saying we would not be members of the EU and re-evaluate that statement,or you could just continue with what some might call terminological inexactitudes.
To be fair he has consistently called AS and myself names* whilst demanding we respect each other.
Cameron wont debate as he cannot win as he is not Scottish and he knows it will help the other side. He is many thinks but stupid is not one of them.
Like much of this [ including AS] it is politically wise if not something you would applaud on the grounds of integrity, democracy or honesty.
* I doubt even THM want to argue troll is flattering though he probably thinks me asking is a troll 😉
It's not just Cameron, though - Better Together suck at debates, and they know it. Pretty much every debate, even in front of a strongly unionist audience, sees a swing to Yes. So BT often refuse to put up speakers for debates, or when they do they do on the condition that the debate isn't filmed.
So they ideally don't want any televised debates at all. Does anyone really think Darking would do any better against Salmond than Cameron?
So more stories on what we wont be allowed to do because of an organisation that we won't be a member of, the usual contradictory stuff then.
Assuming that Scotland doesn't get special allowance from the EU to continue charging rUK students (which there is an allowance for in law, no idea how likely it is to be granted though), there would be nothing stopping the Scottish government seeing up a fee scheme similar to the one in Ireland. Fees would be free for all EU students, including rUK, but there is a student contribution requirement to allow exams to be sat etc which if you're resident in Scotland would be paid for by an income assessed grant. Sorted.
Yes, ducks handled quickly and early. Haven't got involved in latter discussions as EU situation rel. clear. So "huge" is a gross misrepresentation even by your on-going standards. But if it keeps you happy......
As Clegg has show, having a TV debate with someone who will deliberately and willfully play roughshod with facts is a hiding to nothing. Far better to let yS condemn themselves out of their own mouths. Normally, I support FoSpeech as it allows people to make fools of themselves (Griffin, Farrage, Salmond etc) but having BS debates is potentially a waste of time and money. Farrage showed clearly how such events can be manipulated. No one benefits.
Salmond would chew up Darling in the way that Farrage chewed up Cleggie. That the latter did that with scant regard to telling the truth, tells much of the story.
Darling holds most of the trumps and outstanding aces in his hand but has taken the notion of letting your losers go early to an extreme. He cashed in one trump with the CU and co-ordination of that. Otherwise he has been lacklustre at best.
Does anyone really think [b]Darking[/b] would do any better against Salmond than Cameron?
Has the THM effect of using insulting names rubbed of on you now Ben 😉
Good Freudian slip 😀
Otherwise he has been lacklustre at best.
He's being set up to fail.
I see Salmond's still feart when it comes to the proposed TV debate with Farage...
Why on earth would Salmond want to debate with Farrage? He's not going to debate with the Monster Raving Loony Party either.
Ah, so Alex is allowed to pick and choose who he debates with but Cameron can't?
Ooh, look, there's the faux-outrage bus going past the window again!