[Closed] Orlando shootings, 20 shot

The problem is if guns were not available some pathetic idiot could drive a bus into a crowd of people,drive a petrol tanker into a hospital entrance and blow it up, crash a plane into the sea, commit suicide on a main line railway derail a train and kill and injure lots of people.The last 3 have happened in the last 10 years .

You just dont know what evil is in peoples minds and how they plan to use that evil.

The thing is those pathetic lowlifes have taken someones life, destroyed families, freindships etc all for what they believed at the time was right.

its true only the religious hate gay people and only the Muslim ones

well I never said anything about only muslims, so there you go making up stuff again - do you work for the press?

Whereas some people may feel uncomfortable about homosexuality, there's a long way to go to reach the rage that would cause you do do something like this, and probably feel justified in doing it as well.

Not sure how that chart shoeing the number of mass shootings year on year can be offered up as evidence the US hasn't always had a problem. It basically says the US has suffered mass shootings almost every year for the last 50 years. There was a lull in the late 60's which I guess was because all the nutters were over in Vietnam, but after that it's been a constant feature in the US. I wonder how many mass shootings is deemed acceptable?

It's quite ironic that G.W.Bush knew that when there is a risk that WMD's could be used to murder thousands of innocent individuals the answer is to take away the WMD's, and indeed he invaded a country to do just that. Strange that he and his like-minded friends don't hold the same view on how to approach the issue of WMD's on their own doorstep and are quite happy to sit back and do sweet FA as the number of dead bodies in his own country piles up, and even argue to allow more people and more nutters get their hands on WMD's.

TurnerGuy - Member

He said the incident "has nothing to do with religion".

why else would he be that angry about some gay men kissing in the street?

Let's look at other possibilities?

1. Split up with gay lover?
2. Secretly gay jealousy?
3. Abused by gay people?
4. Taught to hate gay people?
5. A mental health?
6. A combination of all the above?

For starters, your average shotgun has, at most, two barrels, with a cartridge in each, and the gun has to be broken to eject the cartridges before two more can be loaded, the gun closed and fired again.
English and Welsh archers at Agincourt and Crêcy could have eight or nine arrows in the air in that time.
An AR15 can carry 30-40-round mil-spec 5.56mm magazines, a MagPul PMag 40-round magazine for an AR/M4 costs $19.95, 60 bucks buys you the means to easily carry 120 rounds of high-velocity ammunition.
Plus the AR15 can be very easily modified, often legally; a company called Slide Fire Solutions produce a replacement stock called the SSAR-15 that allows bump-fire from the shoulder with complete control of aim at all times, at a firing rate of 100 rounds in 7 seconds.
What was that about using a shotgun again?
Of course, there are milspec s/a shotguns that can fire solid shot shells, and can be fitted with tactical magazines, but those are still 10-shot maximum, and are bulky.
Most tactical shotguns are 5+1 capacity.
To repeat, what was your point about using a shotgun again?

Your point is 100% valid & I am in NO way advocating gun ownership......but you knowledge on shotguns is a little....old 😉

This was an act of terrorism. We have gun control in Europe and the French police are routinely armed but we still have 130 people shot dead at a concert.

This shooting has little to do with gun control and much to do with extremism

Ah Dunblane was after Hungerford, apologies but I think the principle still stands

It does. Sadly I've had to be 'educated' on these incidents at work.

The problem is if guns were not available some pathetic idiot could drive a bus into a crowd of people,drive a petrol tanker into a hospital entrance and blow it up, crash a plane into the sea, commit suicide on a main line railway derail a train and kill and injure lots of people.The last 3 have happened in the last 10 years .

Where has this happened?

well I never said anything about only muslims, so there you go making up stuff again

[b]Your every utterance makes you look EVEN more stupid[/b]

1. Split up with gay lover?
2. Secretly gay jealousy?
3. Abused by gay people?
4. Taught to hate gay people?
5. A mental health?
6. A combination of all the above?

Think I suggested 2 already, made worse by him being religious.

4 could be covered easily by his religeous educaton, and a degree of 5 goes without saying because he was religious.

He had been married but what does that mean? He apparently used to beat his wife, but as long as he didn't leave any marks that was fine according to his religion.

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This was an act of terrorism

A knowledgeable US official, however, told the Guardian that while an unfolding federal investigation was in the earliest stages, an initial hypothesis regarding the shooter’s motive leaned closer to a hate crime than an act of terrorism.

“The idea of it being terrorism is not off the table, but it’s probably not the principal approach,” said the official, who would not be identified by name or agency in discussing a fast-moving investigation.

“There are other reasons to believe it was motivated toward a very specific kind of community, obviously.”

That investigation was still determining if the shooting was “terrorism or a massive, massive hate crime”, the official said.

Shall we you know let them investigate and reach an informed conclusion rather than just decide based on your strongly held views on Islamic threat to our way of life ?

Where did i say you said that ?

by inference from your statement :

"its true only the religious hate gay people and only the Muslim one"

Yeap, Merican President Obama just said on the news " ... an act of terror and hate ...".

Yeap, Merican President Obama just said on the news " ... an act of terror and hate ...".

Not "shits and giggles" then. I'm glad he's cleared that up.

This shooting has little to do with gun control and much to do with extremism

& as I've said many times before, If a nutjob/extremist want's to kill someone, he/she will kill someone. Having access to guns just makes it easier/quicker.
Ban guns as much as you like but it won't stop the nutters killing people.

by inference

your every post etc

Drac - Moderator

Yeap, Merican President Obama just said on the news " ... an act of terror and hate ...".

Not "shits and giggles" then. I'm glad he's cleared that up.

Ban guns as much as you like but it won't stop the nutters killing people

Would your prison be safer if they all had guns or less safe. Not The Hardest question- same applies to knifes or well any weapon really

ufton nervet, train crash, suicide 7 dead

the pilot who locked crew out of cabin and crashed into mountain and the recent egypt air flight that disapeared,

and a petrol tanker crashed into a hospital last year deliberately in Syria if i remember correctly,killing many

and lets not forget shipman who deliberately injected patients

and lets not forget all those killed in the name of a war or terrorist attacks

To repeat, what was your point about using a shotgun again?

That when you have 3 hours to execute unarmed hostages they'll do just fine.

& as I've said many times before, If a nutjob/extremist want's to kill someone, he/she will kill someone. Having access to guns just makes it easier/quicker.
Ban guns as much as you like but it won't stop the nutters killing people.

And yet in a little corner of the Atlantic there is an island with just as many insane/mentally ill/extremists per head of population where the random killing rate (per head of population) is dramatically lower. Who would have thought it! Our nutjobs/extremists must just be lacking imagination or gumption or something. OR GUNS!

edit - To be clear, I'm not convinced a gun ban would solve the issue for the states now - the horse has probably bolted. Trump will get into power and we can close the doors, let them either shoot each other to death or eat themselves to death and we can go back in 50 years and see what's left.

There are some seriously ****ed up redneck crackers posting on this thread!!

The usual suspects..

If I ever caught you stalking around my town with your twisted hateful views, I'd own you with bombers (probably)

Would your prison be safer if they all had guns or less safe. Not The Hardest question- same applies to knifes or well any weapon really

Our prisons would be safer if we had enough staff but that's another thread.

Convert, you do have a point but my 'opinion' still stands & as I said, having access to guns makes it easier. If a crank wants to kill someone they'll do it, simples.

yunki - Member
There are some seriously **** up redneck crackers posting on this thread!

The usual suspects..

If I ever caught you stalking around my town with your twisted hateful views, I'd own you with bombers (probably)

So you hate them ... what else do you hate?

Imagine if you have something stronger than a bombers you might cause severe harm is it not?

I am sorry to say but you are[b] Definitely Not the type to put in the position of responsibility [/b]because [b]you Cannot control your emotion.[/b]

No one has claimed banning guns leads to an end to murder[ by nutters] the point is it will lead to this sort of mass murder

A point which has sailed quite happily over some heads JY..

Ban guns as much as you like but it won't stop the nutters killing people.

No but it makes it much much more difficult to kill that many people in that short a space of time in that kind of closed environment.

Assuming for a moment that it was a gay hate crime - how on earth are you going to kill that many gay people that quickly?
Derailing a train or crashing a plane (examples that 'project' used above) doesn't work as that's indiscriminate and unfocused as well as extremely difficult so you're restricted to guns (cheap, easy to get hold of in America) or something like a nail bomb as used at the Admiral Duncan in 1999 which killed 3 people. Not 50. Effective bombs are difficult to make. Any idiot can fire a gun though and in a closed environment like that, you're going to do a lot of damage very quickly.

So banning guns (or at least, banning military spec assault rifles) seems like a pretty effective solution to me.

The problem is that the usual nutjobs in America will already be coming out with the standard line of "oh but if everyone in the nightclub had guns, they could all have fired back..."

There's still people fighting for their lives, victims waiting to be identified, family members waiting for news, is there any chance all you arseholes could stop using it as an opportunity to have a who's the biggest stw ****er contest til at least that's done? It's the same ****ing thread you have about everything after all so why not go and do it about the european cup or something that isn't destroying lives as you type. FFS.

That when you have 3 hours to execute unarmed hostages they'll do just fine.

I'd hazard a guess here that most were killed in the first few minutes not the proceeding hours.

Take the guns away, those batshit mentalists will find other means to efficiently destroy thier 'enemies' in the name of God/America.

Here's an idea NW if you don't like what's being discussed, don't read the thread. Who appointed you as the STW moral compass?

Heh chewkw.. 🙂

Thanks for the advice

yunki - Member

Heh chewkw.. 🙂

Thanks for the advice

True innit! 😀

Gun ownership is a big responsibility..

I nearly bought a sawn-off when I was 18, but decided against it for exactly that reason..

I think that people that believe they are responsible enough to own guns, probably aren't awake enough to make that judgement

There's still people fighting for their lives, victims waiting to be identified, family members waiting for news, is there any chance all you arseholes could stop using it as an opportunity to have a who's the biggest stw * contest til at least that's done? It's the same * thread you have about everything after all so why not go and do it about the european cup or something that isn't destroying lives as you type. FFS.

You may find the thread responses distasteful and in some respects they are. I would hazard a guess few are thinking of the victims because the bulk of the population are entirely desensitised to Americans carrying out mass shootings. Which in itself says volumes about the issue.

An awful situation for people who are out to have a fun night. It never ceases to amaze me that in the 21st Century you can be persecuted or murdered because you kiss or love someone of the same sex. Let's hope all the injured make a full physical and mental recovery. Big hugs and kisses to them all.

gun laws will have no effect on criminals, they can get guns whenever they want. If large quantities of drugs can be smuggled into a country then firearms can be smuggled in. In addition anyone with access to a mill n lathe can easily make a gun. Only honest people will obey the law.

You may find the thread responses distasteful and in some respects they are. I would hazard a guess few are thinking of the victims because the bulk of the population are entirely desensitised to Americans carrying out mass shootings. Which in itself says volumes about the issue.

It's perfectly normal for people to discuss disasters and tragedies after an event, there's no set time limit.

As above 50 people where killed for no reason, and we are discussing the deaths, while showing both intrest in what happens and showing respect to those poor people who died.

nice rebuttal of the "Good guy with a gun"

It's perfectly normal for people to discuss disasters and tragedies after an event, there's no seat time limit.

My point is most of the comments (inc mine) have no shock element. It's straight to the usual debate about guns one way or another. It's mostly clinical, little empathy. I have no problem with that but it does say something out our mindset to these shootings now, sadly. I'd like to say that I'm surprised when I hear these stories now, but they just wash over me and make me angry at the stupid Americans and the moronic NRA.

Saw this for the first time about a week ago, Carey got a lot of abuse from the NRA supporters about it, some one had to explain the significance of the band to me, way to subtle.

follow up from a previous mass shooting
[url= http://www.stonekettle.com/2012/07/the-seven-stages-of-gun-violence.html ]the seven stages of gun violence[/url]

Great article grahamh.

I'm all for the Americans having proper gun laws, but how long will it take for all those weapons already out there to be removed, and how many more deaths will there be in the meantime?

Gun control, I fear, is not going to be a quick fix solution, and I suspect that there actually might not be one.

Confused people Americans

That when you have 3 hours to execute unarmed hostages they'll do just fine.
I'd hazard a guess here that most were killed in the first few minutes not the proceeding hours.