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Sad to read of this attack yet again in the states...
I think that the old rhetoric of gun ownership to keep the government honest is a hollow argument as it seems government officers sort it out each time.
Maybe the police should stand aside and say On you go dear citizens....
I buy the cultural thing, if you think it is fantasy that with the ease to get weapons that there is in America it would be different here then you are a bit simple.
Who said one gun is scarier than another?
Yes, the royal marines must have thought long and hard about if they replaced their old SA80 with C8s or bunch of shotguns
We are talking about shooting unarmed people in an enclosed space. Any gun will do that.
Tragic stuff in a society that still insists on owning a gun a basic human right.
He could have done the same thing with a shotgun (as could any mass shooting). Saying one gun is scarier than another is simply stupid.
They could do but it'll take a lot longer and more effort. Given a weapon like an automatic rifle will easily penetrate wood doors, breeze block, human flesh and that crappy new bricks houses are made of even from a distance. Add to the rate of fire on to of that and it's almost like they were designed to cause maximum damage.
We are talking about shooting unarmed people in an enclosed space. Any gun will do that.
It'd be considerably harder to shoot over a hundred with a revolver though. The death count would be 7 at most, I'd wager.
Any gun will do that.
Slowly.
News flash - people have legs.
Bang bang.....'you just stay right where you are whilst I reload'....bang bang.....'don't you run away - I need a hundred of you to stand right where you are whilst I reload 50 times'.....
He could have done the same thing with a shotgun (as could any mass shooting). Saying one gun is scarier than another is simply stupid.
Nah, your talking crazy, id take a round from a shotgun over an Ar at 30 yards.
Very little over penetration too.
The US has too many guns in circ to make gun control work.
I buy the cultural thing, if you think it is fantasy that with the ease to get weapons that there is in America it would be different here then you are a bit simple.
Of course it would be different. We're a different culture. And to suggest it would be [i]worse[/i] here and call me simple?
Nah, your talking crazy, id take a round from a shotgun over an Ar at 30 yards
That's a big room.
Derek Bird was someone's friend.
That's a big room.
Feel free to school me on the size of Gay clubs in America
A recent poll of British Muslims showed that 80 percent strongly disapproved of homosexuality.
I wonder what the statistic for NRA members is?
Robert Sartin was someone's friend.
Robert Sartin was someone's friend
I'm sure Timothy McVeigh and Harold Shipman had friends too.
I bet you have too.
Do you have a point?
Take the guns away, those batshit mentalists will find other means to efficiently destroy thier 'enemies' in the name of God/America.
Half the country genuinely believes that Trump is the man that will solve the worlds problems. Guns are the least of thier problems.
It comes down to ease of doing violence.
Most lone gun attacks would not take place unless there was easy access to guns (esp high powered ones).
The perpetrators wouldn't have the know how to make a bomb, for example, or would probably blow themselves up trying to make it.
It is quite difficult to do, but walking into a gun shop, paying your money, doing some practice in the woods, and you are ready to commit mass murder.
Take the guns away, those batshit mentalists will find other means to efficiently destroy thier 'enemies' in the name of God/America.
It's pretty hard to kill 50+ people with a rolled-up newspaper. The UK has just as many batshit mentalists as the USA, the reason we don't have daily mass shootings is we can't buy assault rifles. It's that simple.
It's that simple
But it isn't. Mass killings in the US are a new and growing problem. Access to guns isn't anything new.
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Explain it then,
Wouldn't have happened if everyone in the club was carrying an AR31.
Gun ownership has grown, and it's grown at a higher rate than the population so there's now more than one gun for every person in the USA.
There is also a copycat thing to it, where it becomes an easy way for a disturbed person to get their name in the news.
But there's still the simple fact that if this person hadn't been legally able to buy guns, he wouldn't have been able to kill 50+ people.
Explain it then
It's cultural. Quite how this state of mind has come to be I have no idea. It's a broken society.
Wouldn't have happened if everyone in the club was carrying an AR31.
You've got to be a troll...
It's that or you're Charlton Heston!
You need two things
1. A nutter full of hate
2. a device that is really good at killing lots of folk
One of those on its own is worrying However if BOTH are freely available then you will get more of these sort of things
No one with strict controls wants everyone to be armed as its pretty obvious what will happen
Gun lovers can argue the toss - thats why america has lots of guns and these sort of things and we dont
Respect and commiserations to the victims, the survivors and their loved ones
It's cultural. Quite how this state of mind has come to be I have no idea. It's a broken society.
You're actually arguing the same point but break that culture by taking away the easing way of performing such atrocities and it'll reduce them. Of course if they are really meant they can find a way but if someone can walk to their gun cabinet, grand automatic rifle and hundreds of rounds it's far easier.
It's pithy etc, but:
You've got to be a troll...
To be fair, I think it was meant to highlight the way that gun lovers and their buddies in the NRA have spouted the same line without a hint of irony in response to school and church shootings.
Mass shootings prevented by upstanding gun totin' citizens: 0
You're actually arguing the same point but break that culture by taking away the easing way of performing such atrocities and it'll reduce them.
Sure, get rid of guns and you'd have a lot less shootings.
That's not going to happen, and access to guns and gun obsession are flip sides of the culture. It all seemed to work OK until a generation ago.
Quite why it's spiralling out of control now a tough problem for the Americans.
To be fair, I think it was meant to highlight the way that gun lovers and their buddies in the NRA have spouted the same line without a hint of irony in response to school and church shootings.
Fair comment.
It's sometimes hard to tell!
It'd be considerably harder to shoot over a hundred with a revolver though. The death count would be 7 at most, I'd wager.
Let's hope that they don't think to take more than one revolver.
Anything to do with Ramadan - shootings started at 2am, just after he probably had stuffed his face for his final meal before matrydom.
I wonder what Trump makes of all this...
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Oh.
Also worth noting that while gun ownership is on the rise, it is rather more on the rise amongst a shrinking proportion. 75% of gun owners are males, with an average of just under 8 guns each. Around 50% of Americsn households don't have a gun at all.
Apparently he liked taking selfie (lots on his phone) and wearing NYPD t-shirts, so he accepted a lot of the western culture, just not homosexuality.
Or maybe he was a frustrated closet gay made angry by the open displays around him - he did apparently take a lot of selfies...
I wonder what Trump makes of all this..
I can't help but think how incongruous & ironic the words "Trump" & "smart" are when they appear near each other...
Good point why dont the army carry shit loads of revolvers instead of one assault rifle 🙄Let's hope that they don't think to take more than one revolver.
As I said I buy the cultural aspect of your argument but gun control is needed. I was in a Cabelas www.cabelas.com last week. An amazing store amongst all the other stuff was the gun section, approx 400 hand guns on display, shot guns, hunting rifles and then you have the military stuff, AR15, AK47 about 5 varieties etc etc.
Why are guns like that available to the public, you don't hunt with an AK47? If guns are your hobby then great but you don't need military semi automatic weapons, Sandy Hook, Columbine, Aurora all done with semi automatic weapons.
Michael Ryan caused all types of guns to be banned in the UK, we haven't had a mass shooting of that type since, see the connection?
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/omar-mateen-orlando-gay-club-shooter-identified-by-police-us-media-a7077936.html ]Independent news[/url]
Mateen's father, Mir Seddique, told NBC News his son had become angry a couple of months ago when he saw[b] two men kissing in Miami[/b], and he believed that could be related to the shooting.He said the incident "has nothing to do with religion".
Anything to do with Ramadan - shootings started at 2am, just after he probably had stuffed his face for his final meal before matrydom.
As classy as your comments on the Ramadan thread. Look, we know - you're not keen on Muslims.
As far as I'm concerned, anybody who shoots 50 people dead is a bloody terrorist. This is as much a hate crime as an (possible, still being investigated AFAIK) act of terrorism.
You're up there with your mate Trump for opportunistic trolling. (To be fair, you probably aren't mates, although I imagine you'd get on well together over a pint.)
He said the incident "has nothing to do with religion".
why else would he be that angry about some gay men kissing in the street?
Michael Ryan caused all types of guns to be banned in the UK, we haven't had a mass shooting of that type since, see the connection?
Ermmmm! Sadly we have which lead to even stricter rules.
its true only the religious hate gay people and only the Muslim ones 🙄
Your every utterance makes you look EVEN more stupid
Look, we know - you're not keen on Muslims
I am fine with any religion as long as they don't try to impose their views on anyone else, or abuse young children/choirboys.
He could have done the same thing with a shotgun (as could any mass shooting). Saying one gun is scarier than another is simply stupid.
For starters, your average shotgun has, at most, two barrels, with a cartridge in each, and the gun has to be broken to eject the cartridges before two more can be loaded, the gun closed and fired again.
English and Welsh archers at Agincourt and Crêcy could have eight or nine arrows in the air in that time.
An AR15 can carry 30-40-round mil-spec 5.56mm magazines, a MagPul PMag 40-round magazine for an AR/M4 costs $19.95, 60 bucks buys you the means to easily carry 120 rounds of high-velocity ammunition.
Plus the AR15 can be very easily modified, often legally; a company called Slide Fire Solutions produce a replacement stock called the SSAR-15 that allows bump-fire from the shoulder with complete control of aim at all times, at a firing rate of 100 rounds in 7 seconds.
What was that about using a shotgun again?
Of course, there are milspec s/a shotguns that can fire solid shot shells, and can be fitted with tactical magazines, but those are still 10-shot maximum, and are bulky.
Most tactical shotguns are 5+1 capacity.
To repeat, what was your point about using a shotgun again?
Ah Dunblane was after Hungerford, apologies but I think the principle still stands.