Disgusting.
Can’t say it’s normal but sadly a few don’t seem to clean up.
What is a Chav?
Leading question is leading.
Guns don’t kill people. It’s an owner problem. We just need to sort out ownership and everything will be just dandy.
Dugsheight: Sat in some today - mad dash around Bamburgh to find water to try and make myself at least fit for the bus. Thanks to the Victoria who had a hose pipe.
There’s some in front of the castle.
"Can’t say it’s normal but sadly a few don’t seem to clean up."
Its normal. Didn't use to be but it is now.
My commute to work comes off the south downs into an housing estate at Denton. I basically have had to adjust my route because the path I used to use is so covered with shite that its almost impossible to avoid. I now use a different path thats also coverd in shite but wider and less steep so easier to dodge.
And yes, it is disgusting. Not as disgusting as a dangerous dog though.
Though personally, I'm not sure dangerous dog covers an XL Bully (what a stupid name - only an idiot would think it up or buy one) - i reckon we should introduce a new catagory of murderous dog and treat the owners accordingly.
Tide was out - made error of going for the nearer village rather than backtrack to the sea. Distance tends to dominate when walking is painful.
The idea of breeding a dog as a weapon is rather unnerving, given the obvious demographic of those who would want one. Fed up with "normal" dogs being bitey and my better half is utterly terrified of them. Yet to see a spreadsheet bully thank goodness, but always remember a rot on my usual run in the late 1980s - only thing protecting me was someones shoulder socket and a very much tensioned lead. Gave up on that route.
The dog was lovely, and literally licked everyone
what the actual F. Not cool! and can a massive sloppering ogre then guarantee not to be poked in the eye, or slapped by a toddler (or adult) who takes offence to being licked?
and then what? the owner didnt have full control of it.
I can fathom why anyone own an animal that could kill you as soon as look at you should it decide to.
and the inane "its not dogs, its bad owners" response is such rubbish.
No one (Very few) people keep a dog in their home, full in the knowledge its not under control and has a likley hood of killing their or another child. but people still keep them.
"MY Dog wouldnt hurt a fly"
no, your dog hasnt YET been agitated or aggrevated enough, but it could, so why have it
theyre status symbols at best, and weapons and worst.
Totally comparable to American gun nuts.
Oooo, can't resist a good dog thread .... Isn't part of the problem that we as a nation are just far too 'Dog friendly'? All this fuss about whether a dangerous dog breed should be banned - of course it should and the ones already out there should be euthanised. There are far too many dog 'breeds' any way. Breeding should be strictly controlled. Who needs a Doberman or a Rhodesian Ridgeback, for instance? Leaving aside the danger of some of those breeds, the dog filth problem is getting out of control. Dog friendly pubs? I always thought dogs weren't allowed where food was served. Now they seem to be constantly sniffing around when you're eating out anywhere. I'll get my coat.
can’t resist a good dog thread
This is a thread about bad ones.
I know this is kinda off topic, but I've seen a huge uptick in dog poo on the streets lately. I nipped out at lunch, got out of the car and narrowly missed a huge dog jobbie. Christ only knows what it must have come out of, it was easily an inch in girth and there was plenty of it. I'm not surprised the owner left it there, they probably didn't have a poo bag big enough.
Is this the fallout (ahem) from lockdown, every halfwit went and got a dog?
I reckon my working cocker could kill me. He's mega-powerful considering he's <15kg. Watching him bite through bones and the like makes me wonder....
My partner's parents have an American Staffordshire or something similar and he's massive, powerful with a head like a whale shark. Took me a few visits to be comfortable around him on my own.
Watched a couple of documentaries on these bully type dogs and the people breeding them (artificial insemination kits and the like). All rotters IMO and poor dogs are being bred into freaks of nature. A reasonable amount of that kind of dog (staffies on steroids) around where I live and always being walked/dragging along a scrote. I tend to make a bee-line for the nearest exit with my dogs in close control.
Estimate number of XL bullies in the uk - 130,000
Number of deaths per year - 5
So ~ 4 per 100,000
The UK Murder rate peaked around the year 2000 and was highest in Scotland at ~2.5 per 100,000.
So you're only slightly safer around a Scotsman than you are an XL Bully.
This isn't an argument against banning them, just a way of pointing out the pointlessness of euthanizing an entire breed to satisfy some keyboard warrior bloodlust.
This isn’t an argument against banning them
Probably for the best. I know some of Scotland is in favour of independence but an outright ban seems excessive.
Estimate number of XL bullies in the uk – 130,000
Number of deaths per year – 5
So ~ 4 per 100,000
The UK Murder rate peaked around the year 2000 and was highest in Scotland at ~2.5 per 100,000.
So you’re only slightly safer around a Scotsman than you are an XL Bully.
This isn’t an argument against banning them, just a way of pointing out the pointlessness of euthanizing an entire breed to satisfy some keyboard warrior bloodlust.
I should imagine the British veterinary association might have something to say about their members being asked to kill healthy animals in vast* numbers.
*Well, any numbers really, that's not what they signed up for.
I should imagine the British veterinary association might have something to say about their members being asked to kill healthy animals in vast* numbers.
Umm... Where do you think the meat we eat comes from?
I'm not sure how I feel about the ban. On the one hand something needs to be done. On the other hand, the roadmen will just move onto something else.
I've met and come into contact with quite a few American bullies and the occasial XL. Most have been fairly dopey and in a world of their own. Others have been dragging their owners (sometimes kids) along whilst they desperately try to stop them. A local near me refuses to control his 2 off-leash XLs, claims they're dangerous, and wants no-one to walk anywhere within eyesight of him otherwise he'll punch them. He looks how you probably imagine him and of course he's breeding them. The latter is the type of bad-apple which has ruined it for the others.
On a selfish note about the ban, i'm going to get people who don't like dogs accuse my staffy of being an XL. In the past i've had people on just the sight of her accuse her of being a pitbull, asking where her muzzle is, where my license is and where my break/bite-stick is. Whilst picking her up from daycare on the day of the ban announcement, an owner waiting outside thought my staffy was an XL on the immediate sight of her. She's less than 1/2 the size of them. Thankfully the daycare owner pointed out she wasn't an XL but she did mention that the few XLs that currently go to the daycare won't be able to once the ban comes in because their insurers won't cover it. Hopefully the ban guidance will hopefully get read.
Umm… Where do you think the meat we eat comes from?
1, I'm veggie so your point is moot.
2, Pretty sure you don't get your meat from the vets unless you eat Findus Lasagna
Umm… Where do you think the meat we eat comes from?
Yes, because a cull ordered by the government forcing dog owners to have their dogs killed against their wishes is exactly the same as animals raised for the food industry.
You don't generally see the local farmer herding his cows into the local high street vets either.
This breed is only the latest of a long line of 'breeds' that should never have been allowed. We should have strict dog breeding laws and every dog should have a passport and be chipped. OK, I was a wee bit over the top with calling for them all to be killed, but they should be chipped and sterilised at the very least. Crikey, people talk about entitled cyclists, but dog owners take the (dog) biscuit. Why the need for 100s of different breeds anyway? I understand that some of them have all sorts of medical issues which cut short their pampered lives, simply because people want them to look a certain way or be a certain size, or something. Owning a dog isn't a right and dogs don't have rights, either.
dog fouling is as big a problem round my way now as it was 50 years ago, it seems a significant number of owners don't pick up. More than that they don't even get the dog to mess in the gutter. I've often seen it right outside the school gates ffs.
Estimate number of XL bullies in the uk – 130,000
Source? I looked for it to run some calcs previously and found 'in the 1000's' which isn't a number but equally wasn't in the 10s of... or 100's of....thousands.
There’s no accurate number for XL Bullies in the UK as there’s no recognised breed standard / registering of breeders, but the estimate is ‘in the thousands’. Source https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/15/why-are-american-xl-bullies-being-banned-and-how-will-it-work#:~:text=However%2C%20as%20it%20is%20not,owned%20dogs%20across%20the%20country.
There are 11 million dogs in the UK (PDSA report)
If you interpret that 1000’s means 10,000 of them, that’s about 0.1% of the population and yet 20% of the attacks (and further 9/21 fatal attacks)
Even if it’s 100,000, that’s 1% of the population.
There’s no denying, there is an issue with these dogs that is not explained by training or lack of.
Almost 50% of the fatalities from <1% of the population.
but they should be chipped and sterilised at the very least.
Well then you'll be glad to know that's what already happens with 'banned' breeds (because even years down the line there'll be the odd random "staffie" puppy bought down the pub, grows up into an ideal family pet, then keeps growing and turns out to be a Pitty/XL.
They go for assessments with the police to confirm the breed and assess it's behavior/temperament, are neutered/spayed, all dogs are chipped anyway, they are then on a register of such dogs and they get a tattoo on the ear for easy identification.
So you can go back to demanding cyclists have 3rd party insurance in addition to whatever we have from house insurance, BC and clubs and we should all be shot because a few jumping a red light / crash into pedestrians / shit on the pavement.
Source? I looked for it to run some calcs previously and found ‘in the 1000’s’ which isn’t a number but equally wasn’t in the 10s of… or 100’s of….thousands.
An article (on the I and MSN) stated 1% of the dog population, I'll concede that seems high. But then so does the murder rate in Glasgow around the year 2000. The death rate from XL Bullies is about the same as cows (~5/year).
dogs don’t have rights
Yeah, about that...
All domestic animals, under section nine of the Animal Welfare Act 2006, have the legal right to:
live in a suitable environment
eat a suitable diet
exhibit normal behaviour patterns
be housed with, or apart from, other animals
be protected from pain, suffering, injury and disease
All such dogs are assessed by the police? Yeah, right. Plus, when did I say anything about cyclists having insurance?
All such dogs are assessed by the police? Yeah, right.
All banned dogs are. That's the rules.
Plus, when did I say anything about cyclists having insurance?
You didn't, you said "Crikey, people talk about entitled cyclists,", and I compared your comment to the ill informed public pearl clutching usually aimed at cycling.
I'd certainly agree with proper licencing for breeders and breeding. And culls of those from unregulated breeding, not properly trained, etc
Especially on council estates and the occupants.
Now... as to how we deal with the dogs rather than the chavs, that is a little more tricky...
1, I’m veggie so your point is moot.
2, Pretty sure you don’t get your meat from the vets unless you eat Findus Lasagna
Are dogs going to live on turnips now?
A small but vital fraction of veterinarians work in meat hygiene. The horse meat scandal was in fact a case of those involvements being fraudulently circumvented.
I think there is genuine public concern about an emerging trend, and so the Government has a duty to react to that - I don't think an argument that "no action is required" because "just a small percentage" is going to fly with the electorate.
I also think that the way dangerous dogs are managed in the law is going to need to change. The playbook has been written - if Bully XLs are banned, then the demographic who typically wants to own/trade them will just move onto a different hybrid, and around we will go.
I'm not a dog owner myself, but I think there is rather too much squeamishness about calling a spade a spade here (I've checked, and I don't think that's racist? that comes from Greek I think). Personally I'd rather that X of these dogs get neutered (or even destroyed) if it prevents an innocent kid getting attacked in a park and hurt/killed. I appreciate that everyone is going to have their own number here - mines pretty high.
I'm more in favor of a grading type system whereby dog breeds/hybrids of breeds with a greater tendency towards aggression and capacity for harm are either directly banned (as may be appropriate here) or more closely regulated / assessed to ensure that they are being owned responsibly, with appropriate steps if they aren't.
Want a labradoodle? Knock yourself out. Rottweiler? Also yes, but you are going to have to jump through a few hoops and demonstrate (on an ongoing basis) that you are a suitable person. Some sort of weird pit-bull hybrid specifically bred for size and maximum aggressiveness? No.
My instincts are don't ban anything. I want to live in a world where kids are brought up by responsible parents to respect things like knives, firearms, alcohol, animals, vehicles, other people, chainsaws, fire, electricity and so on and so forth and are introduced to them and or trained to use them correctly and appropriately.
Sadly I think the odds of this happening are zero.
For the anti banners, what would you have them do immediately? Some kind of licencing system would be very expensive and take forever to roll out and if the firearms licencing system is anything to do by, a bit of a mess. That's not to say there shouldn't be one.
The guardian say a dog a day is killed by an XL. That's completely unacceptable. Obviously people getting killed is completely unacceptable. Not doing anything is not an option.
I'm in favour of a ban.
Guardian readers are coming for your dogs
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/sep/19/could-the-dog-and-cat-days-be-over-soon
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/mass-xl-bully-walk-planned-27752197
PSA
I mean what could possibly go wrong
So guns are against the law as they’re a danger to society due to how people use them?
lots of drugs are against the law because they’re dangerous to individuals and society due to how people use them?
Dogs are dangerous to individuals and on-mass, society but are fine because people who’re owning/training them are suddenly sooo reliable…?
License dogs like guns. You want one, you have to demonstrate that you can keep it safely. If at any time it’s proven that you can’t, it goes and you have to pay for its retraining/rehoming.
That's actually the most sensible suggestion yet.
Unfortunately like all licensing systems in this country it's not going to stop the people that need to be targeted. The same people that will drive a car with no licence or insurance are the same ones that would have a ridiculous dog with no licence.
That's before you even consider who would administer it and how you would judge suitability? (most dog rescue charities seemingly don't want to rehome dogs from our experience)
So yeah, nice idea but that's all it is, wish it wasn't the case but here we are. Again simple questions, complex answers.
I mean what could possibly go wrong
Sadly they have realised the answer was "quite a lot" and have gone for the boring option of a dogless march.
There was a Big Dog meetup in our local park last week. 🥴
That’s before you even consider who would administer it and how you would judge suitability? (most dog rescue charities seemingly don’t want to rehome dogs from our experience)
I can't speak for all charities or know your circumstances, but the ones I've worked with IME are very picky because there are still far more people wanting dogs than there are dogs in kennels. And the dogs that are in kennels are "problems". So it's not a case of turning up and picking a dog and paying the donation like it was 20 years ago. These days' they'll have a database of people seeking dogs with their details, requirements, any issues etc. So when a dog come sin that's only suitable for older kids, no small pets, rural location etc they can offer it to people that meet the exact criteria. It's tailoring their work around finding the right home for the dog, not the other way around because the ratio of the people database to the dog database was about 100:1.
The dogs that didn't get matched straight away and stayed in kennels/foster past the initial couple of weeks while they were checked over, neutered, behavior assessments etc had issues. Post lockdown lots of them had been bought/sold three or four times by which point their anxiety and nervousness was turned up to 11.
The criteria for getting a puppy could probably be a bit more relaxed than that as you're dealing with an unknown (you don't know if the dog will grow up to hate fireworks so can't assess if a rural or town location is suitable for example). It'd be better if at least had to do a few days crash course in dog training to get the license though.
So guns are against the law as they’re a danger to society due to how people use them?
Not all guns are illegal, and few people had handguns when they were banned. Going to be much harder to convince the populace that we should ban all dogs. Of course everyone has an opinion on everyone else's mutt, but would be outraged if you tried to limit theirs!
lots of drugs are against the law because they’re dangerous to individuals and society due to how people use them?
but despite being illegal are readily available, fund a criminal underworld and ostracise those who end up using them. I'm not sure they are a goo argument for banning anything!
Dogs are dangerous to individuals and on-mass, society but are fine because people who’re owning/training them are suddenly sooo reliable…?
I think it would be more accurate to say a tiny number of dogs are a problem. Far more cars kill people than dogs.
License dogs like guns. You want one, you have to demonstrate that you can keep it safely. If at any time it’s proven that you can’t, it goes and you have to pay for its retraining/rehoming.
I think the suggestion on the first page that licensing breeders and having full traceability of that would be a far better solution - not need to define the breed then simply need to know who the "parents" were or even the breeder and stop that whole blood line or business. Massive penalties for noncompliance.
I believe one of the possible options for owners of a new banned breed is to require insurance (as well as muzzle etc). I wonder why we don't just require all dogs to be third party insured. Presumably, your average pet owning tory voter already has pet insurance so probably doesn't cost them anything. Nasty breeds would be more expensive to insure, but should be obvious to dog wardens / cops which are the most likely to avoid it. Obviously those are the sort of people who don't buy car insurance either but we have fines, disqualifications and impounding of vehicle (and then prison for failing to comply with those) to deal with that and same logic could apply here. Rather than trying to define specific breeds insurers would be quick to work out a mechanism to identify good/bad breeders and low/high risk blood lines.
