Licencing of dogs? Who enforces it? Wardens stopping people out with dogs – nobody carries licence, then what?
Nah; breeders. Much easier to trace as there's fewer of them. Make them keep records of who they sells dogs to, register with a vet, regular inspections, and not allowed to breed certain dogs make sure they're licensed, and fund RSPCA/vets to enforce it
That attack yesterday sounded terrible. Given the ongoing coverage recently I am not surprised that they've banned them.
Don't know why anyone would want one for a pet other than some silly chav status symbol thing. Even the owners that say that their dogs are lovely etc, why have you got one!?
There's a few local to us, new town being built, the XLs usually in the social housing element. All have seemed friendly so far, although one bloke who owns 2 openly says if they do go he stands no chance of stopping them. So pretty much everyone avoids him all the time.
They aren't a natural breed, so perhaps the humans should stop making them, much the same as we should stop breeding flat faced dogs.
The denial is strong with the doggists. These things are literally bred to be weapons, they’re selected for size and aggression. Their very purpose is take those innate characteristics and use them to intimidate people and fight other dogs. Napalm the ****ing things. Want a dog? Get a Labrador.
It is the owners at fault, but I dont trust any dog I cant pin the floor, ever since being attacked by a GS dog about 30 years ago whilst mining my own business.
I have an old grumpy Border Collie of 14 years. We have spent her whole life warning people and having to have eyes in the back of your head from idiots sending their kids across 'to go and stroke that dog!'
Most people are amazing, some are idiots, IQ test for dog ownership?
Chav scum owners, see also Surrons. Thankfully you never see them at 6 o'clock in the morning or on the hills so me and my doggo are okay.
I feel sorry for the dogs - they'll have a shit short life of neglect then end up in a rescue centre or put down.
Seen a few round my way mainly at country parks on sunny days, owners are exactly as you would expect. Low IQ chav morons.
Also had the misfortune to meet one and it's owner at the local vet.
Vet was running behind as per usual and the knuckle dragger was being rude to the desk staff, pacing about and generally being a dick. Thankfully he left the massive ball of muscle and teeth in the lowered, bean can exhaust chav mobile because "ee dun't like ovver dogs innit".
Willing to go out on a limb and say this "ban" will do the square root of eff all. Dodgy back yard breeders will just be slightly less open about it. Realistically the under staffed dog wardens and under resourced police won't do a great deal either.
Bully XL is a shite name isn't it. For some reason it makes me think of Boris Johnson - it must be the Bullingdon clubs notorious chant of "Bully Bully Bully" and him being a XL sized bellend.
The whole current ban system is just an example of crap legislation - wait for a problem with lots of publicity and then react. A sort of populist contortion of the facts. So then every country has different dog breeds banned because of different incidents that made the press in that country and every none inclusion in a different country lessens the argument it's needed here. Chow Chows are legal here but not in much of the USA - same dog, different opinion - go figure.
Why does it take until now to decide a ban needs to be put in place - just look at the sodding things - that's not been bred for fetch! And it's not exactly like there was a shortage of big hairy arsed monster dogs to choose from already.
Having said all that - if you had one that has never given you bother, no matter how unwise the choice was, it would be a heart wrenching walk to the vets to have them put to sleep when the ban came in. I'd think you a knob for owning it, but still feel for you.
Great news. Now ban the rest. Pointless yapping smelly shitting creatures.
Looking back at the old licencing system, it seems to be cheaper if you have a black and white one.
Seriously though, I agree with both the inate breed characteristics and idiot owner comments. I'd imagine there is a culture within the enthusiasts of the breed that you don't want a "soft" temperament, so they will actively try to produce a more aggressive, intimidating adult dog.
There’s a reason Labs are used as guide dogs not guard dogs and why German and Belgian Sheppard’s are used as police dogs.
https://www.guidedogs.org.uk/blog/negative-stereotyping-of-german-shepherds-is-affecting-guide-dog-owners
Yep, many German Shepherds are now too laid back for police hence more Belgian Shepherds being used. Breeding has made them like that......
Just whilst sitting on the loo I've come up with a genius idea.
Want a dog?
No problem but you the owner have to wear this irremovable high explosive inward exploding collar that is set to explode every week/2weeks/month * to be decided.
The key to reset the timer is chained to every trig point in the country hence guaranteed exercise for the dog and a bit more thought for the mouth breeder before they buy a dog.
Caught with a dog and no collar and you get one fitted with a shorter reset time.
Me resetting my collar - and walking the doggo.
[url= https://i.ibb.co/sbbZHgD/IMG-3537.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/sbbZHgD/IMG-3537.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://i.ibb.co/Y8GW5DM/IMG-3228.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/Y8GW5DM/IMG-3228.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://i.ibb.co/hCcVXjz/IMG-1453.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/hCcVXjz/IMG-1453.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Banning another breed is just the easiest response to recent events and doesn’t really address the patterns of dangerous dog ownership as a “lifestyle choice” or wider prevention of inappropriate people owning dogs.
and
but what can you do about the people who want to own a dangerous dog because it’s dangerous?
This is the problem isn't it. Ultimately, criminals are going to crim and bellends are going to, uh, bell. Legislation may well prevent 'regular' people who are dense enough not to realise that cute little fluffy puppy is going to grow into Cerberus, but the backyard breeders won't give a ****. Because they're criminals.
There's one next door to where my mum lived. It's a monster of a thing, I've no idea what breed it is but there has to be some Great Dane in there. They've had it several years now and it's a puppy farm. Whenever it's in season they produce another one from somewhere (probably one of her previous puppies) and let them crack on until she's in pup again. It never gets walked, it lives in some ramshackle 'shed' that they've cobbled together. The yard's ankle deep in shite, it gets hosed down about once every six months when the dad puts in an appearance. I could go on. We've reported them to the RSPCA multiple times, they aren't interested unless we can take photos and if you think I'm hanging over that garden wall with a camera when one of the lads is a "gangsta" and the other the local drug dealer then you're one off. Do we suppose they're going to worrying about applying for dog licenses?
Interesting article if you can be bothered reading it https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/08/15/dog-attacks-on-adults-are-rising-but-science-shows-its-wrong-to-blame-breeds/amp/
Bully XL is a shite name isn’t it.
I did wonder idly whether that was part of the problem. Perhaps they wouldn't be as attractive to Neanderthals if we renamed them Pink Bunnykins.
Is it dogs bread to be hugely powerful that's the problem, or the people who own them?
Honestly, I don't care. The solution is the same.
Don’t know why anyone would want one for a pet other than some silly chav status symbol thing. Even the owners that say that their dogs are lovely etc, why have you got one!?
They have one because they look hard as nails and scare the bejeezus out of most people, there's plenty of dog breeds to choose from, it's not like there are not many more options if you want a dog. There is literally no 'need' for breeders to breed 'dangerous' breeds beyond profiteering from a market of owners for whom the intimidation factor of the breed is important. This is a societal issue and banning one breed won't fix it, but I am in agreement that breeds bred for such purposes should be banned and subsequently any breeders taken to task.
I live in SW London so plenty of so called 'dodgy' areas nearby and often hear of dog 'issues'. In the last few weeks just down the road a dog was ripped apart by 2 Bullys (which by all accounts were on the lead but who can effectively control 2 60kg dogs?). I do genuinely worry about one of my kids walking our dog and having to negotiate their way past one, for both the dog and the kids.
I totally agree any dog breed can be unpredictable and aggressive, no matter how well trained they are, but with a large breed bred to be powerful and aggressive you bring down the odds. On the BBC website they quote an XL Bully owner who states the dog is a total softie and great with her child. That dog is 2 years old and the child 18 months, what lunatic ever through it a good idea to get a breed known for aggression at a time when she was wither pregnant or had a very young child, why take the risk?
Dog licence and that should involve training and testing perhaps?
As a cyclist, I'm fearful of that logic being extended
Bully XL is a shite name isn’t it
I got very confused when a colleague talked about their "Westie Max".
Had visions of an alsation sized West Highland terrier. Turned out to be a regular sized Westie named Max
I strongly believe that the type of person that wants or has a dog like an XL or anything remotely similar, should similarly be either castrated, or better still just shot, along with the dog, for the benefit of human kind.
It's Britain's equivalent to banjo playing morons in the middle and South of America having M16s and Uzis. Utterly not needed, and inverse to their intelligence.
Said as someone who absolutely adores NICE dogs like Retrievers, Spaniels, pointers, setters etc. Because I don't want anything like an XL, pit bull, or other fundamentally aggressive nasty dog OR their owners anywhere near me, my family, friends, or my Labrador.
Want a dog? Get a Labrador.
I witnessed a Labrador attack my brother when he was a toddler.
That dog is 2 years old and the child 18 months, what lunatic ever through it a good idea to get a breed known for aggression at a time when she was wither pregnant or had a very young child, why take the risk?
The Girl was trying for a child. They were unsuccessful so bought a child-replacement puppy. Almost immediately afterwards she discovered she was pregnant. Ages are exactly the same as you describe.
The dog is a Staffie. He's soft as owt but he's the size of a full-grown dog with a puppy brain, he has a head like a cannonball and with a bit of a run-up it's at just about the height of my bollocks. He's felled me more than once. What they're going to do when the kid is more of an independent toddler I do not know. I'm scared of German sausages, but no-one ever listens to me.
It doesn’t suddenly turn out to be dangerous just because the government wants to score an easy win with voters by banning them.
"Handgun owner two weeks after Dunblane" vibes.
XL Bullies are a massive issue around here.
I honestly don’t think I have ever seen one.
I'd never even heard of one until today, and I'm a surrogate dog operator.
Some right ignorant shite being spouted here, for a change.
Some right ignorant shite being spouted here, for a change.
Helpful, informative post.
banning the breed is an exercise in futility, they'll just cross it with another type call it something different and continue as if nothings changed. xl bully is derived from the banned pitbull after all.
banning the breed is an exercise in futility
Yes but it would literally be the only thing Rishi and co have done in the last year!!!!
I’m a surrogate dog operator.
A what?
Shame it’s lead to another dog breed being banned due to irresponsible owners, but I’m not sure what other solution would as effective.
Is it dogs bread to be hugely powerful that’s the problem, or the people who own them?
It's the perfect storm of both. This is the problem, and I think as a first step we need to ban more types of dogs, but also hold thier owners responsible if thier dog breaks the law as if it were the owner itself doing it.
If you shoot someone with a gun, or stab them, it's attempted murder, or actual murder. These particular types of dogs are lethal weapons and should be treated as such, the owners held on very serious criminal charges.
Sweet FA Will happen. We’re in era of either fashion or status dogs, idiots with dogs on training lead’s trying to walk their dogs causing chaos, rare colour BS being sold for silly money by amateur breeders at best or criminals! Dobermanns are gaining popularity, the amount I see that are illegally cropped & docked is shocking and nothing is done about it!
As someone who’s had dogs from childhood I’m finding it all very frustrating.
Rare, and in the many more cases when human death does not result...
I mean look at this..
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-traumatised-after-beloved-yorkshire-30604946
Does this mean I have to carry a stun gun in-case some chav has an out of control staffie/pitbull whatever?
Can I carry an automatic assault rifle to protect my Shih-tzu? Seems fair enough to me.
‘Handgun owner two weeks after Dunblane’ vibes
well clearly not as I’ve said in the 2nd reply on this thread they should be banned as they are, and have always been dangerous.
However announcing a reactionary ban with absolutely zero plan of how to implement it (they can’t even identify the breed) strikes me as a cyclical vote grabber.
I'd be too scared of it to own one.
Right on cue:-
Here's another
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ian-price-american-xl-bullies-attack-b2412314.html
These dogs are lethal weapons, and not only that, they are uncontrollable.
At least with a gun or a knife you have to make a consious choice to pull the trigger, these things are beyond the pale.
My two pence is to ban them (just make the ban pretty wide to cope with the fact the breeds are poorly defined), then destroy the existing ones. Job jobbed.
Whilst I'm sure to a large extent it's the owners fault, if the dog doesn't exist then it can't hurt someone regardless of the owners attitude (see gun availability in the UK vs US and the impact on gun related suicide / murder). Clearly it's imperfect but no dog is worth a childs life.
I don't get the difficulty banning the breed as its not identified. Ffs, I know a big scary dog when I see one, it's easy to measure and weigh one and I bet a dog handler can do a simple behaviour test too. Combination score over a certain mark and penalties come in.
Totalling up suggestions here and we get a system very like motor vehicles. Only trusted breeders can issue a 'dog v5' chip, owners get a licence allowing category of ownership, make a mistake and you get fine and points in your licence, 3 points for fouling upto a lifetime ban for an attack on a person or abusing the animal. I'd also add compulsory 3rd party insurance to pay for damage, vet bills or medical bills if the dog misbehaves.
Costly of course, but reducing dog ownership seems a good thing.
If only it were workable.
I also think that these types of dogs are owned almost exclusively by a particular demographic.
The type of demographic that tends to ware urine stained, grey tracksuit bottoms, North-Face puffa jackets, and even in hot weather they will have the hood pulled up.
Anyone not content with expressing an opinion here can vote on the Brimingham Mail's poll, it's half way down the page:
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/unusual-thank-you-note-driver-27717063
Anyone wondering what an STW member was doing reading a click-bait, white-van-man-in-good-news story in click-bait ooooouh-have-you-seen-this rag can continue in wonder.
When these XL bully stories started appearing I wondered who would want to own such a dog. It soon became apparent. As we can't ban the sort of owners who make the news with these dogs and prison places are short I think banning the dogs is a reasonable solution.
I'm fairly sure if the trend for dog ownership continues at the rate it is currently mandatory muzzling will be rolled out for all dogs. This doesn't prevent incidents within the home but it will reduce incidents in public. I just can't see another solution?
It really doesn't matter how well trained the dog or how responsible the owner if it has no muzzle then any number of unaccounted for scenarios could end up with someone getting hurt. We introduced most or all the modern dog breeds into society and now we need to manage them.
Many breeds of dog should really be just the domain of security services or specialist occupations (hunting dogs on estates etc) and not kept as pets. Just my opinion.
