and is largely responsible for the disaster that is Brexit
I think that dubious crown still belongs to Gove and Johnson, without them, the leave campaign would've been led by political eccentrics - like 1975, the stay out camapign led by Powell, and Benn.
but instead of addressing it by continually explaining why we need it
The essential intellectual underpinning of anti immigration is racism, if you tell folks that foreigners are good for the economy what they take from that is "My job is going to some-one who is cheaper than me and will work longer hours than me, and is disposable".
The essential intellectual underpinning of anti immigration is racism, if you tell folks that foreigners are good for the economy what they take from that is “My job is going to some-one who is cheaper than me and will work longer hours than me, and is disposable”.
So you can't beat them which is why Starmer has joined them?
Led by Donkeys are doing God's work in Clacton - hopefully it's causing a few of the people who did vote for him to stop & think.
I described Farage as the most successful politician of the last 15 years.
He delivered the disaster of Brexit against the established view and used it to reveal an undercurrent of bigotry and prejudice he has been mining ever since, along with others.
He has shaken UK politics to its core through Brexit and the established parties still do not know how to deal with this new era. Post-truth is a term that has gone out of vogue these days. But it is entirely accurate. It isn't about facts or truths any more for a huge swathe of society. It is about feeling and fear. And the RW press have been fuelling those for decades. Now social media allows populists to tell different lies to different people in a targeted manner. If anyone makes the link and exposes the lie, they are shouted down as unpatriotic.
This is Farage's true achievement. It has made him a very rich man.
Take the immigration ‘problem’ away and that is a fair bit of wind removed from the sails of the populist boats.
Yep….. This is the only way to defeat them, like the EU it wasn’t a thing getting continual media coverage,the odd moan but wasn’t the most important burning issue on peoples minds.
The biggest giggle is that ineffective handling of it over the years is making it a much more visible than ever before with ‘the boats’ with a generation of people now routinely being endlessly spoon fed videos over their cornflakes every day tailored
for their entertainment by an algorithm that thinks you like seeing boats and shouty people at least twice a day in between adverts.
I don’t think he is a very high calibre intellectual.
.
Really? What, exactly, drew you to that conclusion? Enquiring minds want to know.
My conclusion, although I confess that I don't take a huge interest in him as a person, is based on seeing how he performs when he is effectively challenged. His standard response when he is embarrassed, feels awkward, or doesn't know what to say, is a hearty laugh. You will invariably see Nigel Farage laughing when he doesn't know what else to say or do, which appears to be a lot of the time.
I rarely have any interest in what Farage has to say but I did watch his press conference when he announced that he would be standing in the general election. I was struck by how talentless he was in his delivery and in dealing with questions, it involved a lot of laughing when he didn't know what to say next or to quickly cover up for a dumb comment he had just made - the usual "I'm joking of course".
I have previously referred to the time when Leanne Wood made Farage look a **** on national TV and more recently even Keir Starmer has publicly humiliated him in the House of Commons.
Having said all that I think Nigel Farage's low calibre intellect is one of the things which probably appeals to his hardcore and more fanatical supporters. They want someone who doesn't speak hard-to-understand stuff and makes them feel good by showing them that he knows how to hold a pint of beer.
But those people represent a fairly tiny section of the electorate imo, his influence is now growing far beyond that base which is why I think he is particularly vulnerable when effectively challenged.
He delivered the disaster of Brexit against the established view
No he didnt. He did it in coalition with a large proportion of the tory party, a smaller portion of the labour party and a large part of the press.
He is part of the establishment albeit the part which wants to sell the country off to its mates.
So you can’t beat them which is why Starmer has joined them?
It has a long and undistinguished pedigree
The essential intellectual underpinning of anti immigration is racism, if you tell folks that foreigners are good for the economy what they take from that is “My job is going to some-one who is cheaper than me and will work longer hours than me, and is disposable”.
Unfortunately nobody is trying.
In England no one is trying. IN Scotland this route has been taken and taken consistently by the SNP and Greens - and the result is almost no anti immigrant rhetoric by tories or labour either and Farage and his band of racists have almost no traction here
The experience from Scotland tells us that Farage and calling out his racism works. Farage is a pariah here.
This Times piece (readable if you push it through 12ft), thinks that Reform could win a pretty sizable chunk of seats in 2026 Scottish elections
They are polling at around the threshold for gaining any seats. 7% If its using the same sort of polling data as the other polls I have seen then its making huge assumptions. The faragists have only ever won one elected person in Scotland IIRC- with 7% of the vote in a european election. The real chances of them winning seats in Holyrood is low - and if they do it will be a handful only
I can't read that article. Its behind a paywall
Farage is according to the same daft polling going to be a major player in government in Westminster. In Scotland they might win a few seats for the first time
The experience from Scotland tells us that Farage and calling out his racism works. Farage is a pariah here.
Are you sure that it has anything to do with Farage being a racist?
Edit : I'm surprised the link doesn't go through the paywall
Edit 2 : This should. :
Yes.
Nickc - I got into the article. Ta for the 12 ft link. Its just a stream of nonsense
Unionism receives less attention than nationalism because unionism enjoys the banal quality of familiarity.
Utter nonsense. anything on independence from the SNP is given one quote in the press, then replied to by 3 quotes from unionist parties. Unionism gets a far greater and more favourable press as shown by reputable research
Typically, of course, unionism prefers not to speak of, or make a big deal about, its victories.
Laughable
Its a nonsense piece full of if buts and maybes and shows a huge lack of understanding.
That is what Reform, tantalisingly, offers. It is the “scunner” vote and a natural home for all those who despair of the parliament’s creation and record alike. Previously, the Conservatives were the closest thing to a home this vote had but the Tories have, for understandable electoral reasons, made their peace with devolution. Deep down, many Conservatives only accept it grudgingly but they understand that Holyrood’s existence is the settled will of the Scottish people
Wrong - the tories embrace holyrood because its fair voting sytem saved them from total wipeout. they know that the PR for all Scottish elections has kept them in the game . The levels of votes that he tories get in Scotland would have them with almost no representation under a FPTP system
Holyrood is liked by the vast majority of the country
Its just a stream of nonsense
Is this nonsense too?
In council by-elections in Glasgow last week, Reform won 13 per cent of the vote in Maryhill and in Drumchapel and Anniesland, and an eye-opening 18 per cent in the Glasgow North East ward.
You forgot the caveat in the article - very low turnout in council by elections. ~they still didn't win a single seat. ( IIRC)
Holyrood is elected on fptp with region list top ups to get proportionality This means that getting 10 -18% in a few wards will NOT translate into seats. You have to get above around 7% across the entire region to get representation. So that stat is pretty meaningless
So the Fargists might get a handful of holyrood seats if they continue to climb in the polls against a perfect background for a protest party with the greens having wasted all their political capital, the SNP looking tired under an unispiring leader and beset by numerous over blown scandal, a tory party in disarray and a labour party at war with its masters in Westminster
perfect conditions for a protest vote, Best case for the faragists is they get a handful of seats.
Reform UK ‘bullish and optimistic’ as polls predict success in Scotland
Reform UK membership jumps 10% in Scotland
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24818855.reform-uk-membership-jumps-10-scotland/
membership north of the border jump by 10% in recent days, taking them to 5,844.
yes we do have a few racist nutters here too. so they gained 580 new "members" clearly a mass movement going to take over the country
Sucess on a huge scale *rolleyes*
Recent polling puts party above 10%, which could result in up to 12 MSPs at next Scottish parliament elections
Now remind me again what % of the vote reform get / poll in england? How many seats they are predicted to win?
You also forgot that other polling shows that if Farage gets into government in Westminster its a huge boost to the independence movement taking the % of folk who want independence to 60% with only 30+% against.
At the last GE the Reform party across the UK gained 4.1 million votes, some 14.3% of the electorate, and won 5 English seats, whereas in Scotland they obtained 167,000 votes, some 6.9% of the Scottish electorate, and gained zero seats.
Best case for the faragists is they get a handful of seats.
and
Farage is a pariah here.
Are incompatible with each other. It's taken Farage 8 attempts to get to Parliament, he has faced as much as an electoral challenge in England as you claim he faces north of the border and all the same voices have over the years said all the same things as you are now; and yet; here he still is, the message hasn't changed in all those years.
The last attempts didn't have trump and musk behind him and social media clouding the mix. Its more now that he is being taken told how to play this by the worlds richest idiot
he has faced as much as an electoral challenge in England as you claim he faces north of the border
No he hasn't - the stats do not lie. He polls less than half up here as in england His party has only once won a seat at any level. He is actively opposed by the scots government parties Swinney recently called him a traitor. he is a fringe politician here at best and last time he tried to campaign here he got run out of town. Reform do not campaign up here because they know they will meet furious opposition and have little support to counter it. Its much easier to get into holyrood as a minority party than Westminster - You can get representation in Holyrood with around 7% of the vote.
The electoral challenge is MUCH easier because of the PR systems we use but he still has never managed to do it
You can be a pariah to the vast majority with the support of a small number of folk.
Scottish Reform voters are easy to identify as the usually have ‘No Surrender’ and red hand of Ulster tattoos and can be found in the home end at Ibrox on Saturdays and will happily use any platform to maintain their grievance politics, particularly to wear an orange sash, bowler hat and light bonfires in July.
The electoral challenge is MUCH easier because of the PR systems we use but he still has never managed to do it
Honestly TJ you sound like the folks I used to canvass with 5 or more years ago in Heb, they used to say all the same things. I think the traditional bet is a Greggs sausage roll isn't it?
Are Reform going to be subject to the same rules as other political parties ever?
The experience from Scotland tells us that Farage and calling out his racism works. Farage is a pariah here.
In Wales he's getting good ratings after 26 years of abject Labour rule resulting in horrendous education and health services and of course the hugely unpopular 20mph limit. Senedd elections in 2026 should be interesting.
He polls less than half up here as in england
I would not dispute that Scotland is not fertile ground for Nigel Farage, I previously suggested three reasons for this. What I would dispute though is your claim that this is because Scots see him as a racist.
Your apparent claim that Scotland experiences significantly less racism and bigotry than England and Wales is not particularly convincing imo.
Are Reform going to be subject to the same rules as other political parties ever?
Not whilst they are a 'mere' limited company.
What we really need is for ordinary working people to recognise their shared challenges
This.
Plus the recognition that by and large, we are all ordinary working people. The few that aren't control the narrative
The essential intellectual underpinning of anti immigration is racism
I still maintain that if we'd pushed the fact - and it is a fact - that lower EU immigration directly equates to higher non-EU immigration then Remain would have seen a landslide victory.
It is a mistake to believe that racism is the exclusive domain of EDL types. Within my parents' generation it's normalised, for every gammon there's ten cans of luncheon meat. They might not be attending rallies or rattling away furiously on the internet, but they're there. And they're the people we need to reach, not the ones who are pushing bacon into mosque letterboxes.
I had cause to visit an old school friend's mother just before Christmas. Lovely woman, heart of gold, tirelessly raised two kids after their father cleared off, doesn't go out much because of agoraphobia, managed to mention the shorter version of "bloody ****stanis" three times in the conversation.
It isn’t about facts or truths any more for a huge swathe of society. It is about feeling and fear.
This, 100%.
Sucess on a huge scale *rolleyes*
We've made this mistake before. The best way to generate a large crowd is to first create a small one.
Your apparent claim that Scotland experiences significantly less racism and bigotry than England and Wales is not particularly convincing imo.
Indeed. The rest of the UK outwith England are just as racist and bigoted as the English are, only towards the English rather than dark-skinned immigrants.
Try telling your average Reform voter that they and the folk outside the nearest mosque at the weekend are actually political bedfellows.
🙂
As usual Massie uses one or two fairly obvious facts such as the rise in support for Reform in Scotland then makes assertions that his "evidence" does not necessarily support. For example he claims that polling figures for recent council elections are evidence that a large number of those who did not vote and therefore were not in the figures are likely to be reform supporters.
He also claims that independence receives more attention than unionism- given that the media in Scotland is overwhelmingly unionist that claim is nonsense.
@tja that video really feels like it is from another era.
The rest of the UK outwith England are just as racist and bigoted as the English are, only towards the English rather than dark-skinned immigrants.
Posted 51 minutes ago
As an English born man with a very english name and accent I can tell you categorically this is not true. anti english sentiment is on the wane and it is much less than it used to be
i am highly amused by folk who live in England telling me what is happening in Scotland
What I would dispute though is your claim that this is because Scots see him as a racist.
Your apparent claim that Scotland experiences significantly less racism and bigotry than England and Wales is not particularly convincing imo.
What makes you think that? You have some knowledge of Scots politics I do not have?
Of course we have racist bams - mainly as above in the sectarian bits. Of course Farage is seen as racist because thats what he is and thats what he is called out as by loads of folk.
i am highly amused by folk who live in England telling me what is happening in Scotland
Whereas folk who live in England are equally amused by you telling us what is happening here.
Up to date studies are rare but if you look at the 2017 British Social Attitudes survey there is not a major difference between Scottish and English views on migration. Later ones are more patchy show a slightly higher pro migration attitude in Scotland but not significant especially when you take into account the differing levels of migration. That migration isnt a devolved matter also means it plays a lesser part in Scottish affairs.
So the fact that the racist Fargist parties get little traction up here, that even the tories do not throw racist dog whistles all the time let alone scots labour, the fact that we voted overwhelmingly remain not for a racist brexit? the fact that we simply do not have the same % of racists is irrelevant?
OK
What makes you think that? You have some knowledge of Scots politics I do not have?
What makes me think that is that you are the only person I know who claims that Scotland doesn't suffer from similar levels of racism as the rest of the UK, and that, according to you, is the primary reason that Nigel Farage is not as popular in Scotland as he is in the rest of the UK.
Humour is obviously very subjective but it widely accepted by many people that Frankie Boyle is a very funny guy. The reason the gag in the video above works is because it is based an element of truth. If it wasn't then no one would find it funny, it would be no more than a weird comment.
I don't know if Frankie Boyle has some knowledge of Scots politics which you don't.
the fact that we simply do not have the same % of racists is irrelevant?
Evidence for this claim? Note your circular argument of Reform are racist and so anyone who votes for them are racist doesnt count.
As for tories and Labour. Why would they when, as above, its not a devolved matter so not a handy battlefield.
Although since you mention them using the 2017 data Labour and tory supporters in Scotland are more likely to be negative about immigration than Labour and tory supporters in England. The same is true for people in favour of remain.
Its almost like its more complicated than simple racism.
Reform rallies in Scotland ?
The only attendees, will be the ones bussed in from down south to support fauxrage, and the rest will be rangers supporters, with as sprinkling of generalized race hate losers
As usual Massie uses one or two fairly obvious facts such as the rise in support for Reform in Scotland then makes assertions that his “evidence” does not necessarily support.
Par for the course on this forum, whatever the subject.
He gets paid for his drivel where as our drivel is given free
