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I just read about the NHS paying for taxis where it cant provide ambulances.
But these are services for follow up treatment, Ive always made my own way to hospital for follow up treatment.
Also translators, should the patient or their representatives foot the bill for this.
Seems like an obvious place to save money.
How about the granny with poor mobility - how is she supposed to get to the hospital?
I am sure there are many reasons, both financial and medical that a patient can't make there own way to the hospital.
I was offered a taxi after my knee OP.
You're not allowed to even take the bus, it has to be either a friend/relative pick you up or a taxi to make sure you're compos mentis when you get home.
£30million in the grand scheme of things isn't that much, 40p each? What they don't say is how much the ambulances cost to do the same job, I'm guessing someone did a sum and decided it was better paying for taxis for those who needed it and getting as many people to phone as friend/relative as possible than to offer free minibuses to every outpaitient?
It isn't necessarily bad value for money to send a cab instead of a 4-tonne ambulance. And for people who are genuinely immobile I think that should be covered under the NHS as part of treatment, but only for those who cannot get there themselves.
Translators? We should be billing anyone who needs one. And not just for health provision....my local authority falls over backwards to provide free translators for anyone who doesnt speak English. Want to live here? You are very welcome, but learn the lingo or show us the colour of your money.
and those deaf and blind people... don't they just waste money by requiring extra resources to allow communication with [i]them[/i]... 🙄
Eight pages? Nine? This ones going to run a bit isn't it?
I love a bit of (not very) thinly veiled racism in the morning.
taxis are cheaper, quicker, more reliable than ambulances usually.
who is being racist?
Sometimes there are good reasons why people can't i for follow ups - after the operation on my arm I had to go in for quite a lot of appointments but wasn't allowed drive (and wouldn't have been able to even if they'd said I could!), my mum doesn't drive and my dad couldn't get anymore time off (having already been given extra to get me to previous hospital appointments!), I managed to get lifts from friends and relatives, and got the bus a couple of times as well but I can definitely see why its difficult for people to get in!
And as has been mentioned - you're not allowed to get the bus home if you've had surgery so they need to provide an alternative for people that can't get a lift - cheaper than providing overnight care so that they can then be let out in the morning...
Translators is an entirely different one - IMO if you can't speak the language or come with a friend/relative that can then you should foot the bill. Not the same if you're blind/deaf etc. as that's a disability - the NHS should obviously continue paying for any support they need to receive treatment!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15115652
The figures cover the transfer of patients who are too ill to travel by themselves, such as those with broken limbs or receiving chemotherapy.
I feel that in the tradition of STW I should launch in with an ill thought-out opinion based on nothing more than prejudice and this morning's Daily Mail.
But I can't be bothered.
It gets very difficult for people to make truly objective decisions on what is appropriate funding of NHS services and what is not.
Speaking as someone receiving expensive treatment that some might see as unnecessary at best, I know how much of a battle my specialist has getting funding - and that's dealing with experts never mind the public!
NHS Funding is a subject very close to my heart and I do not envy the people that have to make the decisions - they know every day that there are consequences to all the people that get to hear "No".
Rachel
Eight pages? Nine? This ones going to run a bit isn't it?
I love a bit of (not very) thinly veiled racism in the morning.
I think 4-5 an it'll get pulled,
pots on the stove, not got any biccys tho.......
I was recently in hospital and I couldn't understand a word of what the nurse was saying as she didn't speak English. Should I have had to pay for a translator?
A translator cost £60 per request and up.
If you dont have a translator though it stops the Doctor/Nurse treating the patient efficiently/Correctly, which costs the NHS more money....
Again I cant recall the exact figures for Ambulance Patient transport, but about £80 rings a bell. So a taxi is cheaper. I wouldnt dream of getting the NHS to pay for a taxi to get me to hospital, but thats because I can afford it and I am happy to lessen the burden on the NHS. Some people can not afford the cost of a taxi, or are happy to get as much as they can out of the NHS...
Again if you delay treatment of a patient because they cant get in to hospital it will end up costing the NHS more in the long term.
People need to realise the NHS doesn't have a bottomless pit of money and expect every thing they want at no cost, but you also need to look at the bigger picture!
30 million on Taxi's for people to get appointments?
I'm sure we could probably save more than that on gender reassignment surgery for prison inmates...
😀
oldnpastit, if you cant contribute and say you cant be bothered, then why put a comment like that up.
seems odd.
Opinions are freely expressed and that is why I put the post up.
Not to get a solution.
who is being racist?
Yes please show us where?
oh zulu-eleven - I think you have just proved my point for me really rather well...
Rachel
As the nhs is forced to become ever more efficient, the distances involved will increase as smaller hospitals do less and more specialised services are concentrated in fewer larger places. We will be using a lot more taxis in the future as small local hospitals are closed or reduced.
mcboo - Member"who is being racist?"
Yes please show us where?
mcbooTranslators? We should be billing anyone who needs one. And not just for health provision....my local authority falls over backwards to provide free translators for anyone who doesnt speak English. Want to live here? You are very welcome, but learn the lingo or show us the colour of your money.
🙄
I'm more concerned about the bloody waste of time and money all these health services would have been put to to answer the stupid freedom of information request asking for the info in the first place.
Daily Wail was it?
Crikey not entirely sure I agree with your statement there. The move is to get more services delivered in your local community so they are easier to access, only leaving journeys to tertiary centres for specialised treatment.
...whether it will work is a different matter.
Right-oh
I can read my own post TJ.
Tell me what is racist in there. Specifically.
[b]Sancho[/b] - you've made me agree with TJ...
There is a certain irony in residents of a country where people are getting worse at speaking others' languages, and yet are themselves travelling more, complaining about the cost of translators...
If you cannot understand then its impossible for me to tell you
The whole tone and post is racist - thinly disguised
"I'm more concerned about the bloody waste of time and money all these health services would have been put to to answer the stupid freedom of information request asking for the info in the first place."
It can take literally days to answer some of the FOI requests, and this is where the NHS inefficiency comes in.
The systems are normally that poor that to get the correct data out takes forever. The organisation will then check that data with other NHS organisations in the area to make sure the values are not too high or too low, and the best bit, rather than a junior employee doing all this and having it checked off by a senior staff member, some one circa £80k will do all the work!
I saw an interview with Tony Blair, and he said his biggest regret whilst in office was changing the FOI Act.
and those deaf and blind people... don't they just waste money
...but they sure play a mean pinball.
TandemJeremy - Member
If you cannot understand then its impossible for me to tell youThe whole tone and post is racist - thinly disguised
OK. So not racist then. You pompous little fart.
I'm talking about the reorganization of hospital services really. There is now, and will be more so in the future, a move towards centralizing specialist services like vascular surgery, maternity, orthopaedics, children's and so on. There will also be the development of trauma centres, with a consequent closure or downgrading of local A&E facilities.
Some care may be easier to access, but for anything major, travel will become more likely.
<wrings hands>
Yes, this will be fun to see the usual battle formations re-drawn on new/old ground.
Yesterday (I think) someone commented that "bigot" was an over-used cliche that is used when people have run out of things to say. Ditto, "racist". Whether anyone agrees with mcboo's sentiments or not, to claim that 'learn the lingo" is racist is stretching the boundaries of sensible argument. And is frankly lazy debating.
I have lived in many different countries and have received medical treatment in some of them. I would not expect that they should provide me with a translator services at their expense. I have made the decision to live in those societies and it is my responsibility to adapt to their society, culture, language etc. It would be patently absurd for me to argue that because a Japanese or French doctor couldn't speak English to me, that they were being racist.
Back to lurking/observing...
Will page 10 be the time for the tread to be pulled?
"How about the granny with poor mobility - how is she supposed to get to the hospital?"
Seems to be a question of whether she has relatives with money and time, or not.
but Im just concerned with where the NHS draws the line.
A problem with translators is that operations are cancelled or delayed if for example they have wandered off to get lunch, or get to the hospital late, seems like a lot of money is being paid out and the NHS seems to be getting the bill more and more.
McBoo- its clearly racist - just in the lazy unintentional way not the overt intentional way
"negative stereotyping on grounds of race, nationality or ethnic origin"
Resorting to insults shows you lost the argument - again.
Is resorting to repeating yourself in an increasing dogmatic manner - bullying?.
Don't like racism or bullying.
TJ and Rachel +1
As for the 'learn the language' brigade - maybe you need to think a bit first. I worked as a volunteer TEFL teacher for a while, teaching women basic English. Most of these were trying to learn as quickly as they could, but it takes quite a while to learn a new language well enough to use in a hospital situation. So what are people supposed to do while they are still learning the language and they get ill / injured / pregnant etc? Many people can't afford to pay for a translator - should they be just left to suffer?
The lack of basic humanity amongst some of you amazes me sometimes.
PS - I've got a pot of coffee on - anyone fancy a panad? Got any biscuits to share 🙂
I'm pretty sure I can't explain to a Doctor in any country I visit the exact symptoms of Apendixitis(sp?) if I needed to.
So my E111(or whatever the cards called) will have to pay for a translator, which is billed to the NHS..........
And what about Mrs Evans from Wales who doesn't speek English and can no longer drive? Should she not get NHS tratment becasue she's not exactly like you?
Ohhh, and I agree with TJ, I don't even thing it's thinly hidden, it's pretty overt.
It would be patently absurd for me to argue that because a Japanese or French doctor couldn't speak English to me, that they were being racist.
However - as the nhs is supposed to provide equal care for all and all patients are supposed to be able to give informed consent how can this be done with people who are not english speakers?
to refuse translators is to give second class treatment - and because this only effects a distinct part of society it is prejudicial - and prejudiced based on race is racist.
Edit - I think a part of the issue here is some folk will not accept that acts of ommissin can be racist - not just acts of commission - and that racism does not require intent. Its the effect it has that makes it racist not what the intent was.
Raism comes in many varieties however many folk only think of the overt racism - "****s go home" not the insidious racism that is unintended such as this topic
TJ I really think you are going way OTT. I think if you spent a while working in our local hospital it may change your opinion abit, all the local doctors dread having to work there because of the positive discrimination that goes on.
I was disgusted at the attitude of many of the patients who were gunning for positive discrimination whenever they could. They had rights, and were not going to be discriminated against.
They would either just sit there and shrug their shoulders at staff in a very rude manor, or shout out stuff like "Get me punjab" and then rant and rave in their own language. It was all very intimedating and I felt very sorry for the staff who had to deal with it.
Anne Cryer MP has always called for other language signing to be removed from public service signing in her constituency as it only encourages other language speakers to remain isolated in their communitys etc etc.
So no its not racists suggesting that people learn the language where they live is realistic.
Funkydunc - but removing all translators from the NHS is racist - as it disadvantages people on the grounds of race. Thats the point.
I'm with McBoo - TJ your just trying to get a reaction.
Please identify one point from this statement here: "negative stereotyping on grounds of race, nationality or ethnic origin" that was raised in the original post.
So no its not racists suggesting that people learn the language where they live is realistic.
And if a Brit went overseas and demanded that others spoke English to them it would be called "arrogant"!!
To equate the awful "****s go home" with an expectation that people have their own responsibility to make themselves understood in another country (not the other way around) merely illustrates that the "racist' card is over-used and sloppy.
Bother - I am repeating myself again.....I must be a cyber bully!!! 😉
The whole post FFS - I am not the only one to see it.
it makes a series of assumptions that are sterotypical based on race.
Do I really need to deconstruction the whole statement? Its a waste of time as you will still consider me and the others who agree with me to be wrong. Will you listen with an open mind?
for people who do 'extreme' sports, like riding fast & jumping bicycles 😉
Hell, any sports actually. Got friends who are constantly in and out of hospital due to football injuries.
glitchy bump
I dont want to get in to a debate on racism, just wanted to garner opinions on NHS costs and where it should draw the line,
The BBC put out a statement that on first reading to me, thought what a waste of money.
fortunately there are one or two people on here that can make a reasoned comment that has made me think further on the issue.
Im still unsure on many things with the NHS, I have my op tomorrow and think the NHS is wonderful and rubbish at the same time.
MY GP is a **** who misdiagnosed my condition, the Bradford Royal are legends, and they have a lot of race issues to deal with.
however back on track I am interested in reasoned arguments on where NHS costs can be saved.