Forum menu
Yes, but the problem there is that what you see as good and what they see as good can be two different things.
I am 100% sure that my version of good is what most people would think was actually good in comparison to Musks version so not really a problem.
I am 100% sure that my version of good is what most people would think was actually good in comparison to Musks version so not really a problem.
Oh, I don't doubt it but it's his billions so he's doing what he thinks is good with it. I am not condoning it in any way.
Must have missed the pile on in the YT comments, no vitriol, no rage, just pages of (mostlty) funny jokes. If you own a Tesla, you're going to get teased about Elons antics. Sorry.
From Google Gemini...
The "tolerance paradox" is a philosophical concept, primarily attributed to Karl Popper, which states that if a society extends unlimited tolerance to even those who are intolerant, it risks allowing those intolerant groups to undermine and destroy the very principle of tolerance itself, meaning a truly tolerant society must sometimes limit tolerance to protect itself from those who would actively seek to dismantle it; essentially, "to maintain tolerance, one must be intolerant of intolerance.".
In other words, pile on the Nazis.
The “tolerance paradox” is a philosophical concept
Yeah, we've had this in other threads before, I never knew there was a name for it. One of the few vocal right-wingers will say something controversial, they'll get chastised for it and they'll shoot back with "so much for the Tolerant Left." Personally I'm at peace with the notion that it's OK, laudable even, not to tolerate bigotry.
"Freedom of speech" does not mean that we have to silently accept what someone says/writes. That freedom works in both directions.
Do people learn nothing at all other than grab the opportunity to pile on others given any opportunity.
I’ll happily pile on, just by virtue of the fact that Teslas just aren’t very well made, and the technology blinds people to the fact that it makes them dangerous to drive. Which is also true of every other vehicle that has followed Tesla down the rabbit hole of using touchscreen technology for every interaction with the vehicle, which is mind-numbingly stupid and dangerous.
I worked for a company that repaired and refurbished fleet cars, we had a bunch of Teslas go through, and nobody who had anything to do with them had a good word to say about them, quality-wise.
There is a word that every engineer and designer who works in the auto industry should be forced to have tattooed on their hands: ergonomics.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z42j2nb/revision/3
Can’t remember the exact quote but it was something along the lines that these people (Trump, Musk etc) are brilliant at baiting liberals to the point where they start saying things that sound hysterical
Which is curious when everything they say about marxism, DEI etc sounds ****ing hysterical but apparently thats beyond question.
Seems like the standard Trump and co habit of projecting their failings onto others and then demanding silence.
When it comes to Musk I am a bit of a free speech absolutist too
Too?
The **** is a free speech absolutist in the same sense North Korea is a democratic republic.
He is one of those turds who believes that he should be able to say what he wants without consequence but doesnt extend the same courtesy towards others.
If you were a true free speech absolutist then why exactly are you complaining about people using free speech to comment about people supporting Musk financially? Shouldnt you be cheering them on?
He is one of those turds who believes that he should be able to say what he wants without consequence but doesnt extend the same courtesy towards others.
not to mention keeping his big mouth shut about his chinese and saudi pals
I meant “too” as in as well as the other points I’d made not as in like Elon. The internet can be a tricky place ?
Nobody is defending Elon or his views (at least I am not) we just disagree on the tactics to combat them. Call him out for what he says, don’t buy his cars (I won’t) but be aware that the right will try to make it sound as though you are trying to claim that anyone who buys a Tesla is a nazi sympathizer (while also being a hypocrite for ignoring real genocide and still buying Chinese goods). At which point you look extreme and they win.
Draw attention to his comments but keep the focus on him and his views not on the people who buy his cars. That’s just falling into their trap.
Which is also true of every other vehicle that has followed Tesla down the rabbit hole of using touchscreen technology for every interaction with the vehicle
Mine has a touchscreen for lots of stuff (thankfully it still has a few dials and buttons too). However, most times I try to use the screen (say, to switch to the radio from the sat nav), the car's safety systems bing and bong and tell me off for not paying attention.
I meant “too” as in as well as the other points I’d made not as in like Elon. The internet can be a tricky place ?
Not really. I think you are confusing it with writing. To be honest though anytime someone declares themselves a "free speech absolutist" I expect the worse.
At which point you look extreme and they win.
So if we break this down.
- I say something
- The extreme right will misrepresent that and go full slippery slope.
- Therefore I shouldnt say it?
Now remind me exactly what counts under 1 and how this meets your free speech absolutist claims. Its sounds to me like you are someone arguing for self censorship which is really the worse sort of suppression. At least if you have someone censoring stuff a)they need the people to do the work and b) can be counter productive if they dont have enough people doing it.
That’s just falling into their trap.
Uh huh. I guess its gone to 5d chess now?
Bearing how much of his worth is in Tesla which is a meme stock based around him I think it is reasonable to judge anyone who buys a new one as being a supporter of him. Note thats not your childish simplification of calling the buyer a nazi but a judgement of them having the intellectual to understand the stock market and how Tesla value is based around Musk and vice versa.
Will be replacing our EV this time next year, will absolutely not be going near Tesla, however much I actually quite like the cars.
Elon is a disaster for not just the USA but the world and that might be underselling it, he's proving to be a total ****wit.
So if we break this down.
I say something
The extreme right will misrepresent that and go full slippery slope.
Therefore I shouldnt say it?
No that’s not what I said. Did you really think it was? I thought I was being quite clear, but maybe not. As I said before, I just think it is the wrong way to beat these people. In fact I think you are just playing into their hands. They can paint you as extreme and a hypocrite. You’ll probably also persuade a few Tesla voters to vote Reform because “the libs tried to tell them what car they should buy”.
I think the better tactic is to highlight what Musk says and not get distracted into attacking the people who buy the cars. If you focus on what he says then you will no doubt persuade more people to avoid his products anyway. If you attack Tesla drives you are making yourself look extreme, hypocritical and creating exactly the us and them mentality that they want
But go ahead and say it if you like, you could be right and I could be wrong.
Ah you're right, being mean never achieves much. If a pal proudly shows off his new Tesla, instead of calling him a big old nazi, I'll complement him on how much luggage will fit in Das Boot.
I’m in the market for an EV and a secondhand Tesla would absolutely have been in the shortlist
Same here, but there's no way I'm doing anything to associate myself with that absolute weapon. I suspect a meaningful hit on the company's bottom line is the only thing that'll bother him, not that I expect it to happen.
Just wanted to say that China isn't a person or a company. When you don't buy stuff from China you are not buying stuff from businesses that employ people. Of course, you'll say that the companies are evil, but remember the person who suffers the most is the poor sod who gets made redundant. The bosses won't suffer. If the Chinese economy crashes, the people who you have an issue with won't be the ones who suffer.
That's not meant to justify anything, I'm just pointing out that things aren't simple and that countries aren't single entities.
It’s not a simple thing. I agree with you, I wouldn’t buy a Tesla for similar reasons, but if you want an electric car and a clean conscience your options are limited
You are over thinking it, he did Nazi salutes on the telly box. When the owners of Volvo, Nissan or my beloved Dacia do that they'll go on my shit list too.
Because their having a joke rather than wringing their hands and trying not to demonise someone just because they have no taste in cars
When you don’t buy stuff from China you are not buying stuff from businesses that employ people.
Well, assuming you chose to buy something else you are still buying from businesses elsewhere, that also employ people. Buy an Orbea, for example, rather than a Santa Cruz and you are still helping people make a living making bike frames, and feed their families, just not adding to the trend of having seemingly everything made in China.
I'll hold off for the V2 version as that has an intercontinental range.
No that’s not what I said. Did you really think it was?
Yup. You might not think you are saying that but thats the problem of those who demand self censorship in the front of extremists.
Lets take your words "but be aware that the right will try to make it sound as though "
So where do you draw the line at "the right" (which incidentally is a bit unfair on the right and should be restricted to the maga party) portraying my words as something?
Am I allowed to say anything which they could try to "make sound as though"? You do realise you are dealing with a bunch of hypocritical extremists, right? Anything they dont like can be made to sound that way.
You seem very keen on amplifying the overly simple attack lines of the maga party whilst not applying the same rules to them.
Musk has always been a ****. Before he went full Nazi I saw Tesla cars as the new BMW or Audi. The car you expect to be driven by a WGBE who treats other road users with utter disdain. Having a Nazi lunatic as the figurehead just makes taking the piss even more fun. Some of you need to lighten up.
It’s a shame he went full bell end as his early achievements were pretty amazing. But how many super successful people didn’t end up as arseholes?
Who doesn’t use Amazon because of how shitly they treat their employees?
Who doesn’t use Amazon because of how shitly they treat their employees
Me. Haven't bought anything from Amazon for about 4 years. Don't miss it.
Does anybody really think that drawing a cock on a Tesla is going to make more people vote for progressive parties and kick these ***** out of power? Or is it just going to drive a few more voters over to Trump (or in our case Farage)?
Do you just want to make yourself feel good, or do you want to win?
It’s a shame he went full bell end as his early achievements were pretty amazing.
What achievements do you speak of and when was he not an utter bellend?
Does anybody really think that drawing a cock on a Tesla is going to make more people vote for progressive parties and kick these ***** out of power? Or is it just going to drive a few more voters over to Trump (or in our case Farage)?
It's really unclear at this moment in time and speculation on STW is unlikely to be revealing. We should wait until the results of ongoing focus groups where workshops will trial cocks of different shapes and sizes.
as his early achievements were pretty amazing
His ability to buy and/or fund other people's ideas and claim them as his own is pretty amazing.
Does anybody really think that drawing a cock on a Tesla is going to make more people vote for progressive parties and kick these ***** out of power? Or is it just going to drive a few more voters over to Trump (or in our case Farage)?
Pretty sure that's shopped, look at the shut lines - so it's a moot point.
Tough one - regardless of who made it, that's a weapon's vehicle. You'd need to be quite the tool to look at that and think "I can see myself in that". Then you add the Musk connection. I'd bet my house that that excellent phallus is a pretty accurate depiction of the driver inside. Regardless of the graffiti being fake, the driver is already lost from ever being a good person.
There is / was a good documentary on the BBC about his life up until Space X got the US gov’t contract.
Aldo for anyone who does manage to avoid buying all sorts of stuff from everywhere due to excessively researched moral standpoints, can you also claim to do this without being a self righteous smug w****r?? From my experience, rarely…!
I don’t do it so I’m just a hypocrite…
**
Does it come in braun?
Oh, that's glorious.
I’m in the market for an EV and a secondhand Tesla would absolutely have been in the shortlist
Later this year I would be doing the same, I have never liked the guy, but I'm not totally out just yet, I'm sure it won't be long though.
On the one hand there's Musk and on the other hand, the economics of owning one vs other EVs. Now I'm only basing this on a mate who has owned one for several years.
He is unapologetic even now. His experience comes from the use of network of charging stations available for Tesla's. His job means he spends a lot of time traveling on motorways, he says in most cases charging on motorways is quicker and costs less than half the of what it does to use a generic charging station. Other EVs don't get access to Tesla's charging network.
He is unapologetic even now. His experience comes from the use of network of charging stations available for Tesla’s. His job means he spends a lot of time traveling on motorways, he says in most cases charging on motorways is quicker and costs less than half the of what it does to use a generic charging station. Other EVs don’t get access to Tesla’s charging network.
Is access to fast charging Muskolini's equivalent of getting the trains to run on time?
Other EVs don’t get access to Tesla’s charging network.
Not true anymore, it used to be true a few years ago. Now there's a whole load that are open to all vehicles.
There's still quite a few tesla only Supercharging stations still, but gradually they are opening to all.
It is true that the tesla superchargers are usually the cheapest way of getting a fast charge, although some of the other charging networks can come closer on price if you sign up for their subscriptions.