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Not totally "unexpected".
Aged 47.
Putin's a ****.
"Kremlin have no idea why he died at this time."
Hope all those right wing MAGA politicians realise now how Russia deals with its opposition.
Hope all those right wing MAGA politicians realise now how Russia deals with its opposition.
I'm sure that's part of the appeal.
Hope all those right wing MAGA politicians realise now how Russia deals with its opposition.Hope all those right wing MAGA politicians realise now how Russia deals with its opposition.
Problem is, that's how they'd all like to deal with their opposition so they'll just see it as him being a strong leader.
Been on a diet of polonium gruel, polonium hard biscuits and sarin laced tea for the last couple of weeks.
Thats bad, not just for Navalny and Russia but for what it signals to the rest of the world. Putin must think his stock is on the rise
No surprise but shocking nonetheless. Putin really is a weapons grade thunderc**** of the highest order.
As soon as he returned to Russia from Germany after recovery form poisoining and was escorted from the airport there was only ever going to be one outcome for him. Surprised he lasted this long to be honest.
Which is why putin didn't off him straight away.
Did Putin want him dead? Absolutely.
But did he want to be seen to be the one to kill him? Obviously not, hence the slow 'he's fallen ill' nonsense over the past year rather than just putting a bullet in his head.
The fact that Putin's been relatively careful suggests this could be a danger point for the Russian regime, if we see protests they could snowball very quickly.
Big 'if' of course,
Thats why i posted my earlier post about this being bad for Russia and the rest of the world - If Putin has judged its a good time to murder Navalny then he's obviously feeling optimistic about his status and that there will be no protest or any there is will be stifled quickly. Imagine if he had killed him during the Prigozhin days....
Same month that Russia have removed one of Putins competitors for the election with the usual lack of elegance or evidence you expect, Putin is in tight unfortunately, i doubt he cares about anything or anyone causing him any concerns on what and how he's doing things.
Depressing. Feels like he’s winning at the minute (Putin).
BBC reporting that "Putin has been informed". I wonder if that's because the relevant parties have now submitted their invoice for murderous services rendered.
RIP Navalny. Hopefully we'll see change eventually for the people of Russia.
Hopefully we’ll see change eventually for the people of Russia.
Not anytime soon, unless something happens to dear old Vlad I can see it being like the African republics where he'll just make sure he stays in power.....
I do wonder, why they try to maintain a pretence of democracy and rule of law. They, us and everyone else knows they are a murderous dictatorship who do whatever the **** they like with no comeback. Why don't they just own that and stop fannying around with court trials, sham elections and the like that have zero credibility inside or outside Russia. What's in it for them?
blokeuptheroad
Full Member
I do wonder, why they try to maintain a pretence of democracy and rule of law.
For this sort of thing:
GOP 'Mericans- "Look, Russia still having "elections", Ukraine has delayed them. Ukraine is a dictatorship, God bless Russia!"
🙃
I do wonder, why they try to maintain a pretence of democracy and rule of law. They, us and everyone else knows they are a murderous dictatorship who do whatever the **** they like with no comeback.
It gives them deniability within Russia itself.
Feels like he’s winning at the minute
What does that actually mean? I know we here in the west like to think we're better and assume everyone in Russia wants to be like us but has it occured to you that they might not? Seems to me that this is yet another case of 'the west' projecting its own ideals and culture on others, for what are probably spurious self-interested reasons.
Hopefully we’ll see change eventually for the people of Russia.
See above. Why is it important to you that change occurs in Russia? TBH The only thing I care about is that Putin leaves us alone and doesn't drop any bombs on us.
dazh
Don’t get me wrong, I get the dedication he had to the anti-Putin cause but it really wasn’t necessary to go back. Seems a bit narcissistic really, he wanted to be a martyr. 🤷♂️
Wrong. It was very important for Alexey Navalny to return to Russia. If he didn't then all opposition to the current Russian regime would have evaporated. A.N knew the risks in both returning & staying away, he really had no choice.
I know a close associate of A.N and todays news has hurt them a lot. It won't stop or deter the opposition.
Social media is very active covering the unfolding story, although pro Russian telegram sources are playing A.Ns death down. I don't think this is a victory for the current Russian regime, in fact it could turn out to be the complete opposite. Time will tell....
The presumption that Navalny was stupid to return to Russia relies on the assumption that he would have been safer if he hadn't. Hard to see how he would have been without disappearing from sight completely, and even then what would the odds have been that he would have turned up dead sooner or later?
What does that actually mean? I know we here in the west like to think we’re better and assume everyone in Russia wants to be like us but has it occured to you that they might not? Seems to me that this is yet another case of ‘the west’ projecting its own ideals and culture on others, for what are probably spurious self-interested reasons.
Sounds awfully like something a Putin-apologist would say......We in the west might not be great, but I'm pretty sure we're better than Putin's murderous regime
"Winning" meansPutin thinks he has a bit more room for manoeveure....the baltics are pretty worried they are next....and i'm pretty sure that's not their **spurious** self-interest
Which is why putin didn’t off him straight away.
Yeh, nobody suspects him at all now after waiting a while.
Strange thing to say…..
Indeed, especially this bit.....
scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; –tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; –tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; –tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); –tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000
Agreed..!!
No idea why STW added the extra text to my post (maybe it's a Russian bot infiltration eh?).
Sounds awfully like something a Putin-apologist would say…
Yawn. So accepting the fact that our model of government and the culture that drives it might not apply to Russia (or any other country for that matter) makes me an apologist for foreign regimes? You know it is possible to acknowledge the simple fact that other countries might be different to ours without being some sort of fifth columnist or traitor. In fact a little more understanding and less judgement on all sides might result in a more peaceful world.
Strange thing to say…..
Wanting to avoid war is strange???
In fact a little more understanding and less judgement on all sides might result in a more peaceful world.
poor lil putin, all he needed was a bit more understanding 😔
It sounds like you're suggesting poisoning, prisoning and eventually (as is almost a certainty) murdering a political opponent is totally reasonable?
Just to get our opinions straight here, of course...
In fact a little more understanding and less judgement on all sides might result in a more peaceful world.
Yep, better remind the Georgians that they need a bit more understanding and less judgement of Putins Russia.....
Especially the ones that were driven from their homes & whose loved ones were killed by Russian forces in 2008...
Plus the Georgians that can't return home due to the continued illegal Russian occupation of 20% of Georgian territory.....
But yes, grrrr the West.....
But did he want to be seen to be the one to kill him? Obviously not
Putin is King of Russia, he really couldn't give two shits what either the people of Russia or anyone else for for that matter think about how he rules and whom he kills. That;s what happens and what it means when people become absolute monarchs.
The poor guy leaves a wife and 2 children behind, i'd not say he was looking to get killed for narcissistic reasons, or the reasoning behind what is basically a dictatorship, led by someone who wants to be remembered like Stalin
It sounds like you’re suggesting poisoning, prisoning and eventually (as is almost a certainty) murdering a political opponent is totally reasonable?
To the Russians it might be. To us it's not. The question is not whether it's right or wrong but what business it is of ours? Or are you suggesting that countries interfering in and undermining foreign governments is perfectly acceptable? That's generally how wars get started.
And then there's the double standards of course. Putin doing this sort of stuff is terrible, but on the other hand Saudi Arabia and other states doing it is perfectly fine. The main differentiator is the money we receive in return for the arms we supply and the resources and goods we can buy from them.
By all means lets be a crusading country furthering the cause of freedom of justice around the world, but lets not complain when the countries on the receiving end bite back. We can't have it both ways.
To the Russians it might be. To us it’s not. The question is not whether it’s right or wrong but what business it is of ours? Or are you suggesting that countries interfering in and undermining foreign governments is perfectly acceptable? That’s generally how wars get started.
And then there’s the double standards of course. Putin doing this sort of stuff is terrible, but on the other hand Saudi Arabia and other states doing it is perfectly fine. The main differentiator is the money we receive in return for the arms we supply and the resources and goods we can buy from them.
By all means lets be a crusading country furthering the cause of freedom of justice around the world, but lets not complain when the countries on the receiving end bite back. We can’t have it both ways.
I've yet to meet a Russian that thinks it's OK to poison any political opponents.....
Double standards? Saudi Arabia? Maybe you/we all just need a bit more understanding & be less judgemental?
Was it the business of Chechens wanting their own homeland in 1999/2000? How did that go for the 8000/9000 Chechens killed by Russian forces? We can trace Putins blood lust back to when he first rose to prominence so I wonder just how much understanding we need to offer? Or do we just have to be much less judgemental?
How did that go for the 8000/9000 Chechens killed by Russian forces?
About the same as it did for those killed in the 1916 Easter Rising, the thousands who died in the American wars of independence, and the millions who died as a result of British Colonialism. Easy to judge I guess if you're posessed of a short memory and a misguided sense of moral superiority. This good vs evil narrative might suit the sabre rattlers but the reality is very much different.
The question is not whether it’s right or wrong but what business it is of ours?
"A quarrel in a far away country, between people of whom we know nothing.” said Neville Chamberlain of Czechoslovakia 2 years before London was being bombed from the air . You, me we've no idea what may happen in the future. Regardless of how other countries act, Putin is clearly more than happy to go to war with people for whatever reason that he decides now or what he feels like that reason was a couple of months later on.
We may not want war, it may be coming whether we like it or not.
Well Daz wins the prize for today’s most obvious display of whataboutery
That’s generally how wars get started.
I thought wars got started when one state attacks another.
...and on this point...
The only thing I care about is that Putin leaves us alone and doesn’t drop any bombs on us.
I would suggest a good way to prevent that occurring at some point in the future would be to continue supporting Ukraine to the extent that Russia (Putin) fails in that particular adventure.
This attitude only really works if people like Putin inhabit the same universe
Not suggesting we shouldn't defend ourselves. We absolutely should, but there's a big difference between that and the proactive interference in a foreign state's affairs because we think our system is better and assume that the people in those foreign states want the same as us.
I thought wars got started when one state attacks another.
Explain Iraq then. And Afghanistan for that matter.