Halliburton?hora - Member
Theres only going to be one winner out of all these events. It isn't going to be Islam/Muslims.
Can't imagine it will do Marine Le Pen and FN much harm in the polls either!
Or UKIP.
Im a muslim - what does this make me?
A potential Atheist.
It's not going to be us either.
No it'll hurt our freedom of speech and the meaning of democracy. More terror laws, more CCTV etcetc. On the ground more people voting for narrow-minded muppets of all religions and persuasions.
[i]Im a muslim - what does this make me? [/i]
same as the rest of us I'd imagine, just with a specific set of beliefs?
Can't imagine it will do Marine Le Pen and FN much harm in the polls either!
@ninfan, yes indeed, very scary times. France has the largest Muslim population in Europe. Things are going to be very very tense.
Im a muslim - what does this make me?
A turrorist, according to my perceived interpretation of the media. Which is a shame 😐
one could as accurately state "The elephant in the room is clear for anyone possessed of reason and logic to see; modern, tolerant, liberal, western society is incompatible with Biblical values."
The winners out of this will be the Terrorists behind it. They are attempting to create a climate of hatred and hostility against Muslims to effectively force the vast bulk of the religion into their camp . Unfortunately there are too many in the western world whose knees jerk too quickly and who enthusiastically play along with the terrorists agenda.
An awful lot of them seem to think that thats exactly what it suggests they do. Have you somehow missed whats going on is Syria and Iraq as well?
The British ISIS recruits were buying "Islam For Dummies" on Amazon before they went.
Those'll be the Islamic values that kept science and mathematics alive while "western society" was in the dark ages?
@ben - people tend to focus on more recent history and events
The British ISIS recruits were buying "Islam For Dummies" on Amazon before they went.
I think they had more than enough religious teaching from twisted Imams either in person or online.
No it'll hurt our freedom of speech and the meaning of democracy.
Personally I think that was fatally wounded when we made offending someone's religion a criminal offence!
mashiehood - Member
Im a muslim - what does this make me?
Just another person with a religious faith.
Bear in mind, my best friend is a muslim and I grew up with muslim friends in a muslim village.
Stay on course with none of the radicalisation then you are fine otherwise like everything else you ripe what you sow.
So what does it make you? Insignificant in the grant scheme of things like all of us or shall I say - Zombie maggots.
But what do i believe? The press and certain statement on here would lead to me believing is killing innocent people. Do i believe that its right to kill innocent people? Rape? children being used as soldiers? Ethnic cleansing?
All of the above can be associated with every religion at some point in time? But today im a Muslim and apparently I believe in all of the above being correct if I have to defend my faith?
NO - I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY OF THE ABOVE. I am a peaceful, law abiding muslim who goes against every belief these terrorists hold.
If I were the French government, I'd just concentrate on finding them, arresting them, trying and then gaoling them as per normal for murder.
The mag should go straight to press with a sarcastic report on the attack.
Everybody should
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The British ISIS recruits were buying "Islam For Dummies" on Amazon before they went.
Its frankly irrelevant where they get their teachings or guidance from, the end result is murderous lunatics. And it seems like theres no shortage of the same ready to follow in the footsteps. So what do you suggest we do. Wring our hands a bit harder?
No it'll hurt our freedom of speech and the meaning of democracy.
Personally I think that was fatally wounded when we allowed men to openly advocate the murder of Salman Rushdie and burn the Union flag on the streets of Britain without any consequences.
I am not sure that "offending " someone's religion is a criminal offence.
All organised religions are, to varying extents, cults, extortion rackets and ponzi schemes; pay money, obey rules, and your eternal soul will be saved.
In this day and age, it is high time we stopped allowing any religion to derail subjective debate. None should be pandered to, all should take a back seat to core values and laws. Any religion which seeks to undermine rights and equalities - free speech, sexual and gender freeedom - is plain wrong.
mashiehood - pretty much everyone understands that 'muslim' terrorists are not representative of the people who follow that faith and that not everyone who follows that faith is a terrorist.
I am a peaceful, law abiding muslim who goes against every belief these terrorists hold.
@mashiehood - we recognise you are in the majority, our issue is how we collectively deal with this minority.
Perhaps we should invade a few more of their countries and bomb them some more- though you term this hand wringing
I mean what else can you do with war mongering savages ?
I say we bomb them some more ..surely that will teach the western liberal way is the correct way and nothing like their way?
@Mr Whoppitt. The magazine immediately re-tweeted the ISIL cartoon
If it was the message of the religion every Muslims would be a gun totting suicide bomber
Even you must accept this is not the case.
I certainly do. This fact does not detract from the message however. Even apologists such as yourself cant ignore that (as with all religious texts) there is a significant amount of hate involved and any warped person or one of low intelligence will find ample justification for their actions. Saying their is no justification is simply wrong.
Perhaps we should invade a few more of their countries and bomb them some more- though you term this hand wringingI mean what else can you do with war mongering savages ?
I say we bomb them some more ..surely that will teach the western liberal way is the correct way and nothing like their way?
Wow such straw men and its only page 2
*high fives junkyard for use of the word "nuance"*
Carry on
Junkyard - yes lets kill some more innocent people. That will sort it.
"the shooters"
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I really don't believe in capital punishment but "a really good kicking followed by life in solitary" is looking increasingly attractive
Wring our hands a bit harder?
I suggest that "we" should just carry on with whatever "we" are doing. Unless you live in France?
Wow such straw men
Wow you sure defeated all my points there 🙄
Its amusing to see straw man abused as an ad hom ...oh the irony
Glad you noticed it More Cash 😉
[i]Unless you live in France? [/i]
and even then.
mashiehood - MemberBut what do i believe? The press and certain statement on here would lead to me believing is killing innocent people. Do i believe that its right to kill innocent people? Rape? children being used as soldiers? Ethnic cleansing?
All of the above can be associated with every religion at some point in time? But today im a Muslim and apparently I believe in all of the above being correct if I have to defend my faith?
Ya, but you are screwed. [u]Other religions had it the same way long ago[/u] so now it is the turn of your faith to learn. Coz those extremists have hijacked your faith by announcing to the world they are taking over and whether you like it or you will be dragged in with them ...
😯
They won't get far in that Citroen until a bizarre electrical problem stops them.
Let's hope the Gendarmerie drive a Japanese/Korean/German car so they can catch them when it occurs
The Muslim world can reclaim their religion by leading the charge to eradicate extremism. It can do so by going to the police with information of anyone expressing extremist views, it can do so by testifying in court against them. It can do so by whistleblowing on all and any funding / charities which it suspects are diverting funds to terrorists. It can do so by publically condeming these actions by arranging large anti-terrorist demonstrations in the same way they did so regarding the war in Gaza.
When oh when will moderate Muslims speak out against this vile terrorism?
NO - I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY OF THE ABOVE. I am a peaceful, law abiding muslim who goes against every belief these terrorists hold.
Oh.
Well maybe they could do it louder, and more often (every day perhaps) - or maybe walk around with big signs on their heads just to make sure.
What Binners said is quite right.
Every religion has it's share of nutjob fundamentalists, using their creed as a shield for whatever their beef is with the world. Doesn't mean all Muslims/Christians/Jews etc think the same.
Islam is an easy target due to some cultural practices in some Islamic countries that don't sit well in the west, all that female circumcision and public executions, you know the kind of thing.
Add in French Colonialism chickens coming home to roost et voila...
presumably they have quite a few beliefs that coincide with yours otherwise they'd be fundamentalist somethingelse-ims or ists or ians. But I get your point and would be surprised if any (literate, intelligent) person really thought all muslims held the exact same views as these nutters.I am a peaceful, law abiding muslim who goes against every belief these terrorists hold.
tho he may not have said it this time before JY made his comment, binners standard response on these threads is to nuke them from orbit.Wow such straw men and its only page 2
I agree this is fascism, but fascism follows fascism, it's a cirlce to the bottom of a deep deep hole.
digga - Member
The elephant in the room is clear for anyone possessed of reason and logic to see; modern, tolerant, liberal, western society is incompatible with Islamic values. They do not want, let alone respect the freedoms we hold to. They have no interest in participating.
This^^ And the day after the Oil runs out in the middle east, i fully expect the boarders to be closed and those countries will simply return the middle ages, because, without oil money, they have nothing to trade with the "capitalist infidels" .
If you count modern and tolerant western culture as stirring up civil war and worse in half the muslim world, then batter in! 😆maxtorque - Member
digga - Member
The elephant in the room is clear for anyone possessed of reason and logic to see; modern, tolerant, liberal, western society is incompatible with Islamic values. They do not want, let alone respect the freedoms we hold to. They have no interest in participating.
This^^ And the day after the Oil runs out in the middle east, i fully expect the boarders to be closed and those countries will simply return the middle ages, because, without oil money, they have nothing to trade with the "capitalist infidels" .
But I get your point and would be surprised if any (literate, intelligent) person really thought all muslims held the exact same views as these nutters.
Lots of seemingly reasonably intelligent people still make crass generalisations about 'what Muslims think' etc.
Jon Snow nails it;
[i]
Paris:brutal clash of civilisations:Europe's belief in freedom of expression vs those for whom death is a weapon in defending their beliefs.[/i]
Jon Snow nails it;
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I think jambalaya has a point in that until the moderate Muslim community gets some high profile publicity on some big "not in my name" type protests, then they will struggle to get the hard of thinking tabloid readers to understand that it is a radicalised minority carrying out these atrocities, and the "them and us"dance of death will continue.
I accept that some protests have occurred here and elsewhere, but haven't had the publicity they deserve.
No, you have a very good point with that, which is why there are plenty (myself included) who hope the Chilcot enquiry turns out to have teeth.seosamh77 - Member
If you count modern and tolerant western culture as stirring up civil war and worse in half the muslim world, then batter in
As Gandhi said though, an eye for an eye leaves us all blind. We need to move on.
I can accept that many Muslims are peaceful and tolerant, but they still perceive themselves as being apart, because that is what successful religions do and it is divisive and backward. The world would be infinitely better if we all simply regarded one another for what we actually are; humans.
until the moderate Muslim community gets some high profile publicity on some big "not in my name" type protests
http://rt.com/news/189168-german-muslims-protest-isis/
http://www.wsj.com/articles/french-muslims-protest-against-islamic-state-1411755890
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muslims-in-france-protest-against-extremism/
