[Closed] "Muslim" terrorists attack French magazine in Paris

Is that the same Saudi Arabia who is the UK's no.1 customer for the arms trade?
The Arms Trade that Prince Andrew encourages?

*[i]Always women for some reason, never men.[/i]

France's Muslims enjoy the same freedom of speech as all French citizens, which has limits. Saying some things is illegal. Making a plausible threat to kill someone for example.

As for restricting the display of religious symbols, all religions are concerned. If a Christian wears Jesus T-shirt to school it's just as unacceptable as Islam symbols.

binners - Member

Guns don't kill people....

As for restricting the display of religious symbols, all religions are concerned. If a Christian wears Jesus T-shirt to school it's just as unacceptable as Islam symbols.

What drivel. They introduced a special law in 2010 specifically banning face-covering garments which was quite clearly targeted at the niqab.

wrecker

Do you think old angry Akhbar in a cave in afghanistan gives a * if we sell hardware to SA?

Is that angry old Akhbar who we funded and trained to fight the Russians, with the promise that we would help to build a democratic country for him if he succeeded, and who we subsequently abandoned? That angry old Akhbar?
He might give a f. Yes he might.

Do you think old angry Akhbar in a cave in afghanistan gives a **** if we sell hardware to SA?

This is but one example of how the CIA (and MI6) in collaboration with among others Saudi Arabia funded, armed and trained the mujahadeen under [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone ]Operation Cyclone[/url]:

These same fighters went on to become Al Qaeda, [url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development ]according to Robin Cooke, itself a Western construct[/url]:

Bin Laden (Tim Osman?) was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west.

From the video, you will note how Obama himself is quite well acquainted with Brzezinski all these years later:

Big names in covert strategies such as Zbigniew Brzezinski and Henry Kissinger are hugely influential on global history, with bodies such as the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations planning strategies over decades, rather than the short terms given to the democratically elected governments.

It would be very naive to imagine similar covert operations are not continuing to this day...

jivehoneyjive - Member

C'mon! C'mon! Those are old news everyone knows that ... that's done. The man is dead. Move on.

Now the can of worms (now evolved into zombie maggots) is opened how do you deal with them before they become hornets to sting you?

🙄

Is that angry old Akhbar who we funded and trained to fight the Russians

I guess you missed my point, but partly my fault for being so oblique.

Most AQ are far removed from the old muj and are mainly not even afghans, the locals call them "the foreigners".

What does that suggest...

It would be very naive to imagine similar covert operations are not continuing to this day...

And Al Quaeda does not mean "the database", it means Foundation or base. Cooks talking out of his arse.

Now the can of worms (now evolved into zombie maggots) is opened how do you deal with them before they become hornets to sting you?

Stop ploughing arms into the region and stop killing/wounding innocents

[img] [/img]

Sanctions on not only weapons+ammo themselves, but the materials used by the local arms industry will put a significant squeeze on all hostilities and diffuse matters, rather than continuing to aggravate them which is the current (profitable) policy...

Hmm, wonder what would happen if sanctions on arms trade were in place...

(apart from a lot of grumpy faces in Carlyle Group, Halliburton and all the contractors orbiting the industry which by some coincidence generally benefit those who started the wars in the 1st place)

Stop ploughin arms into the region and stop killing innocents

I guess you missed my point, but partly my fault for being so oblique.

jivehoneyjive - Member

Sanctions on not only weapons+ammo themselves, but the materials used by the local arms industry will put a significant squeeze on all hostilities and diffuse matters, rather than continuing to aggravate them which is the current (profitable) policy...

You do realise the terrorists are using AK47 and not your western variant.

If it is M16 or British made guns I can understand but those are AK47 and they were/are produced in millions. If you say stop it, will the AK47 stops spraying projectiles to the innocents? How are you going to defend against them? Essentially, you are condemning those without AK47 to death.
🙄

Certainly no easy answers are there.

Especially when a powerful Arab state conduct capital punishment for blasphemy... see rusty post above.

Yet your actual fella... Muhammad.... was far more tolarent.

Unable to observe Islam freely in Mecca, the prophet migrated to Medina. There his first act was to build a mosque, the most sacred structure for a believer. An Arab man entered the mosque and urinated in front of the prophet with no care for the sanctity of the mosque. How did the prophet respond to this deepest of insults to Islam and himself? He cleaned the mosque, stopped Muslims from expelling the man and explained the inviolability of a place of worship.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/07/charlie-hebdo-murderers-cannot-define-islam

But all the while The Onion summed it up a a good while back, in fact shortly after 9/11

http://www.theonion.com/articles/god-angrily-clarifies-dont-kill-rule,222/

Or maim, or torture, or terrify or or or

If only it was as simply as .... Don't

disgusting. have you learnt nothing?
where is the uncensored version.

#GLC

As for restricting the display of religious symbols, all religions are concerned. If a Christian wears Jesus T-shirt to school it's just as unacceptable as Islam symbols.

Do you think not being able to wear certain items of clothes is

1. a restriction on what you do

2. not a restriction

Best of luck working out whether the freedoms have been reduced.
The fact you only restrict ALL religions does not massively counter the claim you restrict religious freedom. it just means you are fair in your unfairness.
What grum said re the viel as you dont even manage that

If it is M16 or British made guns I can understand but those are AK47 and they were/are produced in millions. If you say stop it, will the AK47 stops spraying projectiles to the innocents? How are you going to defend against them? Essentially, you are condemning those without AK47 to death.

Not if bullets are in short supply...

What's the alternative? Drones?

You do realise the terrorists are using AK47 and not your western variant.

Are you sure?

[img] :large[/img]

jivehoneyjive

Are you sure?

I dunno what the context of that picture is but an MP5 is a submachine gun. That looks very much like 7.62

Do you think that Heckler and Koch came from saudi? All the pics I saw they were firing longs. Although there are long variants of the MP5, it would be a serious bit of hardware for jihadijean-pierre do be running around with.
HK was british owned for a while, I don't think it is any more. Plausible I suppose, but highly unlikely.

Truth be told, I'm not sure of the context of the pic either, but it pays to inspect all available evidence: some say the fact there is no blood, or sign of impact suggest this is a false flag... horrific though that possibility is, you have to question everything if we are to get to the full truth of the matter:

some say the fact there is no blood, or sign of impact suggest this is a false flag

@jive at least you are consistent with always having a conspiracy theory. If you shoot someone and they die instantly there is virtually no blood. Blood comes when the heart keeps beating. I can point you in the direction of dozens of ISIS execution videos and you wont see any blood there either.

@grum they extended the law / clarified it to prevent you covering your face as it wasn't captured clearly in the existing legislation. I don't agree with the ban, I think it achieves very little. What's interesting is that the terrorists wife was reported to always wear one in their home town of Reims.

I am surprised at the inference here that France is not supportive of Muslims, they make up 10% of the population and the left wing does much to court their votes. They are one of the countries to recognise Palestine and support their application to the UN and ICC. I think France is one of the most accomodative countries. These terrorists attacked the magazine as they published cartoons and killed Arab policemen as they got in the way.

see what an AK47 does to a watermelon

@grum, your linked piece was interesting, it made the point the Muslim terrorists kill mostly other Muslims.

What time is the judging of the Walter Mitty lookalike comp? Plenty on here who must be in it.

So the biased settler policies, Placement of Catholic statues and the like and the use of the Ilaga, wouldn't upset a population which had been Muslim since the 14th century a little bit?

20 percent of the population have been Muslim since the 14th century, demographics change. I assume you support the state of Israel then, seeing as their right to exist is based on a similar argument.

I seem to remember you don't.

The west killed a huge amount of Taliban, but there they still are. It doesn't matter whether you target the leaders or the follower

Except AQs ability to launch attacks on the UK/US was utterly devastated by the Afghan war, but lets gloss over that shall we.

Re: How do we stop this cycle, It isn't going to be easy but i do believe it would be possible, those that are so far twisted that they are beyond twisting back to rationality will not live forever, what needs to be done is to address and understand what causes the radicalisation of people in the first place, and that may have many threads to it from foreign policy to our own societies at home, if we stop the recruiting then the "generals can't wage a war without an army.

Those that are twisted beyond salvation need to be contained, it may not be a popular thing to do but eventually they will lose support and become a very small bunch of shouty people in the desert with no one listening to them, every air strike/drone attack that causes "collateral damage" just draws more people on the fringe to the centre.

True but then look at ****stan and look at ISIL or Afghanistan
Its hard to argue we defeated terrorism or AQ by waging war against them.
Many European countries have been the victim of a terrorist attack since then and AQ only did one before - on the US now we can add Spain, Holland,Belgium France and the UK x 3 US x about 10 to the list But hey it was not AQ so lets gloss over that. None of the european countries had an Islamic terrorist attack before we waged the war...that has shown them eh

JY. I don't think we were trying to defeat all terrorism, its not really possible. There will always be a new group with some grievance or the other. The attack on the twin towers was as much an attack on Europe as it was the US. Not sure why you say USx10, they've had 9/11 and Boston. the Americans I speak to think their governments responce has been successful in protecting them.

What time is the judging of the Walter Mitty lookalike comp? Plenty on here who must be in it.

I don't think we were trying to defeat all terrorism

The attack on the twin towers was as much an attack on Europe as it was the US

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks

wrecker - Member What time is the judging of the Walter Mitty lookalike comp? Plenty on here who must be in it.
You sound well placed to judge it.

Well if I'm judging I've got you in the semi finals 😉

Be careful throwing Walt accusations around. You could end up looking very stupid. Certainly more Walt than the accused.

Yeah you're right I'm sorry 😉

Doing a bit of peacemaking of my own here;

although Junkyard and I have squabbled immensely in the past, I agree with many of the points he has raised in this thread.

Now, back to business; even with the overt operations of our governments, it is hard to gauge just how much of the bloodshed and continued conflict is due to our incursion; add to that the covert tactics of MI6/CIA/Mossad and indeed NATO and the true picture behind any and all modern conflicts becomes extremely blurry (and more than likely dirty)

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio ]Operation Gladio[/url] certainly set some interesting precedents and like [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone ]Operation Cyclone[/url] (mentioned bit further up in thread) [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat ]Operation Ajax [/url] or [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor ]Operation Condor[/url] it would be very naive to imagine that similar manipulations of global politics by violent means, misplacing the blame were not still being carried out to this day...

True but then look at ****stan and look at ISIL or Afghanistan
Its hard to argue we defeated terrorism or AQ by waging war against them.
Many European countries have been the victim of a terrorist attack since then and AQ only did one before - on the US now we can add Spain, Holland,Belgium France and the UK x 3 US x about 10 to the list But hey it was not AQ so lets gloss over that. None of the european countries had an Islamic terrorist attack before we waged the war...that has shown them eh

Most of those attacks were homegrown but yes, you have a good point here. I sympathise with your point of view Junkyard.

Still, I think that without the Afghanistan war we could have well seen large complicated attacks carried out. Here's the thing, if we destabilise the middle east and keep the nutters locked up fighting us/each other on their own home soil then they are to busy to turn their attentions to shit like liberating the "moorish occupied territories" of Al-Andalus. These are things they will turn their attention to once they take Syria/Iraq/Iran, they are absolutely crazier than most of you care to realise.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100213666/the-muslim-brotherhood-wants-spain-back-can-the-christians-have-egypt-in-exchange/

They still think they are fighting the wars of 800-1000 years ago, as such we've essentially been dragged into a religious war as old as the crusades. Same shit, different weapons.

They still think they are fighting the wars of 800-1000 years ago, as such we've essentially been dragged into a religious war as old as the crusades.

Hmm... The Knights Templar are apparently the basis for Freemasonry

#jokingnotjoking

These are things they will turn their attention to once they take Syria/Iraq/Iran, they are absolutely crazier than most of you care to realise.

They only actually control a pretty small area don't they? And it seems to be quite chaotic. I'd seriously doubt their ability to create a stable state in the middle east then turn their attention to the west.

Ooh. Hostage taking, gunfights and car chases. It's like a Bruce Willis film.

Following binners' excellent point about it "all being about power and control", where even if the whole world became a "Caliphate" you'd still get different groups fighting each other about who was the most Islamic, I'd like to see the general (media-driven) conversation move past the "they're all terrorists fighting the west" description to this more insightful view.

The question would then become "How do we return the human impulse to exert power and control, to the established systems of governance inside democratic systems?"

Well, hostages taken. Can't see the killers emerging from this intact. Just hope the hostages make it.

Wopster... You've probably seen it, but the point is made excellently in Adam Curtis's the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares ]Power of Nightmares[/url] about the use of fear for political gain?

Its very applicable in this case. Algeria was a case that was illustrated. Its a dry run of whats happening in Syria now. Hardline Islamic groups tend to be very useful for overthrowing regimes, but once that task is complete, they quickly haemorrhage support from the population, who have little time for such extreme views. At this point they descend into infighting of the 'I'm more Islamic than you' type, as they try and assert themselves as de facto leaders in the emerging power vacuum, and then bring a population to heal with the use of barbaric violence and fear

Looks like we should all be prepared for at least one unavoidable act of destruction.

http://www.cityam.com/206794/mi5-chief-warns-paris-style-attack-britain

Two more dead, 20 injured. JihadiJean-Pierre and his bro holed up in a building.
Won't be long now. Chance of a talk down are slim I reckon, I wouldn't want to be one of the hostages.

Looks like we should all be prepared for at least one unavoidable act of destruction.

http://www.cityam.com/206794/mi5-chief-warns-paris-style-attack-britain

Just how much can we trust MI5?

[url= http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5320/mi5-and-mi6-tell-mps-to-censor-key-report-on-lee-rigby-s-killers ]What was the extent of their involvement with Lee Rigby? [/url]

UK security services are well known for collaborations with the US:

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/government-agents-directly-involved-us-terror-plots-report?CMP=twt_fd&CMP=SOCxx2I2 ]Government agents directly involved in vast majority of terror plots[/url]

all the more poignant, as there would appear to be much at stake:

[img] [/img]

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio ]All a bit Operation Gladio[/url]