Seems reasonable. Each person on this planet uses up more of the resources. There is an unsustainable number of people on this planet. Reducing population is thus the most selfless thing you can do and having children the most selfish.

What TJ said.

Agree (with ton), surely two kids per couple makes sense (actually would need to be more than 2 to keep the population level constant, not everyone has kids or even gets to being old enough to have kids).

Is this the guy trying to take his employer to court for making him redundant alledgedly because of his Green agenda? Using religeous hatred laws or something. Someone should point out that we're not very interrested in him or his barking ideas.

I'm in agreement, plus kids are rubbish anyway so everyone wins if you don't have any.

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/8339652.stm ]I assume we are talking about this chap.[/url]

Re his sacking - I imagine it might be frustrating in a role like that but you are employed to disseminate the views and edicts of your employer no matter what you personally think. If you can't manage that maybe that’s not the job for you.

Re the kids thing - I think I agree. People only have children for 100% selfish reasons (wanting to get to play at being parents, continuing their "blood line", having someone to wipe their arse when they are old and wrinkly, etc) and I happen to agree with him that the world would be a better place with a smaller number of us on it. That requires us having less kids per family. Lots of economists will tell us that the world would fall apart with less people to grease the wheels, but we have coped in the past and I'm sure we can do it in the future.

Is it selfish to have two weetabix at breakfast instead of one as well?

No thats just lame you need 3 for brekkie.

I love kids, as long as I don't have any and a new car every year I'm happy!

But it's true on natural resources and over population? well we could develop areas of Africa and other large land masses that are considered deserted states of land.

😈

Children are wonderful.

And Convert - What horse shit!

Further massive population growth is unsustainable. The planets resources are finite. We are squeezing a huge amount of species into extinction.

Trumps "Aww kids are cute i want loads" imo.

Why? Because you have them and can't hack it that the reason you had them is for your own edification? Think about it, what other reason is there?

People only have children for 100% selfish reasons

Then why are men made to feel like the selfish ones when they tell their partner that they don't want kids?

For all those who think having kids is selfish, do the right thing - Jim Jones can help:

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown ]null[/url]

Go on, save the planet from yourself.

well we could develop areas of Africa and other large land masses that are considered deserted states of land.

Well that's a great idea!

😯 🙄

Maybe your being ironic?

i think all people who do not want kids should do us all a favour....see what br said...
we were made with reproductory organs...........figure the rest out

you sad f*cks 8)

[b]convert,[/b]

Well I have thought about it. I did not have my 2 children purely for my own gratification. I had them because I wanted to allow life to be born, to grow and to blossom. They are not promotional displays for myself or my wife, nor are they pushed with my own sometimes strong beliefs and agendas. They have their own tiny beautiful minds and hopefully will contribute to this planet and move on stronger than their predecessors.

Its life. And life moves on.

You need to get a hold on that bitterness brother!

i'm with Ton

I dont know why its so hard to grasp though, I know it sounds mad but if you think about it of course its selfish. If everyone keeps breeding at the rate (increasing rate) we do now then the world will be ****ed

Convert your parents must be very proud and moved by your views on their motivation for having you.

I'm with b r on this one- all the nimby's need to practice what they preach.

Interesting article in this week's Economist: the fertility rate has now just dropped below 2.1 for the first time. The population will still continue to grow for a good few years but we're not likely to be squeezed off the planet!

Keep smoking it 59 times...

let's all move to scotland with our selfish wives, and all our kids........
and bug the **** out of teej........... 😈

Infact, maybe the problem isnt how many people there are, its actually how we choose to live.

If you live a sustainable/eco friendly lifestyle then I'm happy for you to carry on breeding.

However, if you drive a car, buy excessive amounts of food and luxury items then you seriously need to think about what your doing

Also these "children" are the people who will be creating wealth and paying taxes to pay for your pensions,NHS, etc that you will be taking of advantage of in your old age.

Wow, what well reasoned points in support of endless streams of kids.

TON you do some ace trolling RESPECT to the Big man --- you certainly use more that your fair share of resources especially Bikes and Pies ... I know slap waiting this Sunday 😀

Listen, doing something for your own self edification is fine and entirely natural. We do it in just about everything else we do in life. I just think denying that it had a part in choosing to become a parent when of course choice plays a part is deluding yourself.

My parent, whilst disappointed they are not to be grandparents (selfish?) understand my reasons for not. My reasons could of course been seen as selfish as I don't want a bunch of rug rats getting in my way! I have more than enough of them at work (school)- i.e. I dont actually hate kids.

Don't think overpopulation is such a big issue to be honest.
[url= http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14743589 ]"Assuming fertility falls at current rates, says the UN, the world’s population will rise from 6.8 billion to 9.2 billion in 2050, at which point it will stabilise"[/url]

i hate spinsters and sad tree hugging batchelors moreso...... 😈

convert you are depressed mate.

no really you are.

tj your point falls down when you meet all the couples in middle age who didnt have kids because its selfish...they tend to be selfish c*cks.

...and presumably TJ will be expecting someone elses children to contribute to his final salary pension scheme...

slw - then why are you here? Earth that is. Why do you feel you have a valid right to your life yet negate the existence of the future populus and parents of this planet?

Well said Crikey - draw a picture of our (aging) population demographic and you'll find it looks like an inverted triangle, i.e. the point at the bottom, with all those baby boomers about to shuffle off into retirement (yes you TJ!) at the top looking to us, the Generation X and Y to finance it all. We'll be lucky if we still even have a state pension.

More children means greater intellectual capital to provide the solution; means greater tax revenues to finance the solution; means greater prosperity for mankind.

in my facist empire, you wont be allowed more than 1 child.
end of story

the population needs reducing drastically.

its currently (apparently) 6 times what can be sustained comfortably.
i can believe that.

ANYHOO, this bloke is interesting:

why the FERK should he be fired for his beliefs, but your religious beliefs protect you?

thats like saying [b]"your beliefs are based on fact and(even though your job is RELATED to these belives, but if your beliefs are made up, fiction, then you ARE protected."[/b]

what utter bull
seriously, can no one else see that?

his thoughts on the environment are probably the closest thing to religion he has?

however, he did raise a whole load of money for BHF by driving a morris minor 20,000 miles, or something. very green?

I'm sorry but if the likes of me and Teej have contributed taxes all these ****in years putting [i]your[/i] sprogs through education, hospital, etc then damn if them brats cant wipe up our skiddy drawers and mop our dribbling chins in our dotage.

It the least they can do. ingrates.

Rumbledethumps, you'd have to ask my parents the first question.

I have not said i have a right to life. Not sure what you mean about the future.

Of course people should breed. Maybe a bit less would be good for everyone?

Problem is, how would one go about deciding how many kids can be produced, and by whom. Difficult one that.

9.2 billion by 2050!!!

didnt you spend all those taxes borrowing money that wasnt there to buy things you couldnt afford though?

It's not the number of people on the planets thats unsustainable, its the lifestyle they lead. Crucial difference that. Ergo - the guy is a knob jockey.

Breeding is a normal biological function. Selfishness doesn't come into it. Are you anti-kid people, vegetarian, animal rights activists, animals will reclaim the planet types? Animals don't think about how selfish they are in having how many off-spring.

Still at least the people who think that the breeders are selfish aren't adding to the gene pool!

teagirl, very good input there...... 😉

The guy didn't say people shouldn't have any kids and neither did alot of people on here. We are going to get to the point where there is not enough food to feed everyone on the planet, therefore people will die. Oh well, we'll probably be alright in the Western world, who cares if millions of people in other parts of the world die of starvation.

susie, single??

Animals don't think about how selfish they are in having how many off-spring.

or wear clothes, ride bikes, use money, read, write or post on internet forums...

animal populations rise and crash...

He wasn't fired, he was made redundant (entirely plausible in the current economic climate).

For all the people who tout irrefutable science for 'man made' climate change (as is this mans beliefs), the Law has deemed it akin to religion!

No its not selfish to have more than one child. When I can afford children, I'll be getting down to some serious reproduction! Until then its practice, practice, practice. 😉

No.

Susie you sound like you need to get laid.

i find people who do not want or like children somewhat strange and odd.
trying to quell a human beings natural functions and urges is not err natural.
just wrong..

I don't have kids and am not that bothered (neither is the wife) about having them. I pay more taxes than people who have kids and i do not put pressure on schools,nhs etc.

A tax break would be nice as we are not putting pressure on the system!
😉

Why, thanks, Ton 🙂

I've found that middle-aged people that haven't had kids stemming from a philosophical, religious, environmental, economic standpoint really regret it! But that's in my experience.

.

The world population in the 50's was 2.5 billion, it is now approaching 7 billion. Where I live, farm land has recently been sold to builders, I'm sure that is probably happening throughout the UK and the world. How large does the population have to get before you are worried about how we and future generation are going to be able to feed ourselves?

happy family

[img] [/img]

before you are worried about how we and future generation are going to be able to feed ourselves?

(edit:i cant be bothered)

MetalHeart, no kids, single maybe, member of alsorts of 'groups'?

edit, too late....tut tut tut

Population does not need to be reduced. When it does need to be reduced it will.

It really is very simple, what some here are really saying that they would like it reduced so there are more resources for them and the things they like will not be used up or destroyed by others.

MetalHeart - Member
I'm sorry but if the likes of me and Teej have contributed taxes all these ****in years putting your sprogs through education, hospital, etc then damn if them brats cant wipe up our skiddy drawers and mop our dribbling chins in our dotage.

It the least they can do. ingrates.

When you're in a care home because you're too old and insane to look after yourself, and because you've no family to do so either. Then someone else's child will be the one mopping your chin and wiping your wrinkly arse.

I'm beginning to bite my finger Ton.

Reducing population is thus the most selfless thing you can do and having children the most selfish.

hardly - there are certainly far more useful things you could do like inventing usable fusion power or shooting Jermy Clarkson (soz Jez). For that matter, by that measurement it would be selfless to commit mass murder and then suicide - in fact "terrorism" would become the new path of the Messiah! I feel my (2) kids are the best things I've ever done, not as self promotion but for who they are - and I gave a big chunk of my life to bringing them up as well and happily as I could. We cannot say how the human experiment will turn out, but I'm not willing to abandon it just yet...

Interesting one. Regardless of the sustainability question (we, the West, need to reduce consumption; China, India & Africa need to curb population growth and develop in a better fashion) I have no real desire to have kids. I don't find them cute, adorable or want to spend time with them. I like my niece & nephew - they're good fun but too rowdy for me to (want to) cope with all the time. All the "Oh its not the same when they're yours" nonsense - of course its not, I [b]have[/b] to deal with it then, sure there'll be plenty happy times but I like my peace, quiet and 'me time'. So which is more selfish - not wanting kids so I don't have to deal with them, or having kids for my edification? Both. Neither.

Add to that I really believe the 'future being a good place to be' is hanging in the balance and it doesn't add up to wanting kids.

Stopping health care after, say, 75yrs old - that would be a better answer. I know its not realistic and way too emotive to deal with, but its the aging of our population which is screwing us over in more way than one right now.

[i]Darwinian Survival of the Fittest, now thats selfishness in action! [/i]

Did Darwin factor in WMD? People on the edge of survival don't die quietly.

And when you are being stitched up in A and E after a headplant off your bike will you protest that someones kids are treating you?

Hang on, isn't going out biking a rather selfish indulgence?

Our third child was born on Friday, got to get some more use out of the bike trailer 😆

A very proud Daddy of three wonderful children

Add to that I really believe the 'future being a good place to be' is hanging in the balance and it doesn't add up to wanting kids.

If I read that correctly then you are using the same reasoning as people in the 60s had for not wanting kids, except then it was nuclear destruction that they were looking forward to.

I had twins, which one do I have to give up?

"Hang on, isn't going out biking a rather selfish indulgence? "

+1

As is wasting resources having a pointless debate on the internet.

teagirl - you are a bit daft and your thoughts a bit simple! Please reread and add something to the debate that mounts to a reasoned argument.

Hang on, you're a mother so all your reasoned and rational thoughts dribbled out of your womb many years ago!

[i](You are very close to a ban Mod)[/i]

to all you neysayers...........
do you think the inny and outy bits were put there for you to rub and touch..............ffs

get with the program, you wizened, dried up deserts of people...... 🙄

As is wasting resources having a pointless debate on the internet.

who decides when it's pointless ? And does everything have to have a point ? What the point of MTB ?

get with the program, you wizened, dried up deserts of people...

I don't agree with this either - leave reproduction to those that want to do it, and let those that don't - die out in peace

I like kids, but just because i don't want any why is this a problem?
Do all you breeders feel jealous of all the free time i have to enjoy MY life!?
😉

my being the key word soops........ 😉

SLF

No, not Stiff Little Fingers, but, Selfish Lazy ****ers - most of our friends without kids are 50% likely to be single and far too many of them are SLF's.

Hate to think what they'll be like when they are older, they're bad enough in their 40's.

no kids

single

member of alsorts of 'groups'

When you're in a care home because you're too old and insane to look after yourself, and because you've no family to do so either. Then someone else's child will be the one mopping your chin and wiping your wrinkly arse.

I have two kids and I couldn't care less what anyone thinks of my choices.

why are we feeding the trolls?

Having children has, and is, the most selfless thing we've ever done in life.

My

cos it passes your sad boring evening...........jools

When you're in a care home because you're too old and insane to look after yourself, and because you've no family to do so either. Then someone else's child will be the one mopping your chin and wiping your wrinkly arse.

I wouldn't wish that on anyone, least of all my own, and fully intend to kill myself before that can come about

Do all you breeders feel jealous of all the free time i have to enjoy MY life!?

not in the least - I prefer being me :o)

do you think the inny and outy bits were put there for you to rub and touch..............ffs

seems to work pretty well, aye 🙂