[Closed] Modern Art - SPOILER ALERT

Ooh Kev I came close to punching him. Even little Cat would've done so as well. Stella definitely weren't pleased with him.

BTW I'm trying to 'phone you. Your 'phone not working?

An unmade bed, wether in a grotty flat or an art gallery, is still just an unmade bed. Anything else is just superfluous art world waffle and flim-flam. If you want to believe it's 'art', then that's up to you. But be prepared for people to laugh at you for being sucked in to the 'X-Factor' style 'Cool Britania' gup

What we were expecting some deep insight from you! You've just made the same argument that was made pages earlier, only this time you've added something to belittle those who don't agree with you.

I was curious because you said...

nothing wrong in drawing from photographs, it's draftsmanship and the work of an artisan not an artist.

that suggests i know that it is copied directly from a photograph.

Yes I know.

But come on; if you want to believe an unmade bed is 'art' cos some meeja ponces tell you it is, and that you'll be a philistine or thicko if you don't agree, then you are deserving of ridicule. If you genuinely believe it's art, and can produce a coherent argument as to why you think it is, then fair enough. I've never ever heard a coherent argument which validates the unmade bed as 'art'.

I'm eating Heinz Ravioli. WhY? Because I like it. It's not haute cuisine, and know this, but it doesn't bother me, nor diminish my enjoyment of it. If some ponce wants to come along and label me an ignorant savage for liking it, rather than turning my nose up it and only eating hand-made Ravioli from Naples, then they can bang on all they like. I don't care. I'll continue to enjoy my Heinz Ravioli whatever they think, because I can think for myself.

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There. I've posted a picture of said Heinz Ravioli on an internet forum. I've placed the meaning of something into a particular context. I've decided I'm going to call it art. Everyone happy?

[i]What's that Mr Saatchi? Five million? well actually I've got a buyer in New York willing to pay eight million, actually...[/i]

But come on; if you want to believe an unmade bed is 'art' cos some meeja ponces tell you it is, and that you'll be aphilistine or thicko if you don't agree, then you are deserving of ridicule. If you genuinely believe it's art, and can produce a coherent argument as to why you think it is, then fair enough. I've never ever heard a coherent argument which validates theunmade bed as 'art'.

but you are a ponce telling me that if i do think it is art i need to be ready to be ridiculed.

I don't believe it is art because meeja ponce tells me so! How patronising! C'mon this thread was really quite peaceful and productive before you started this crap

If you genuinely believe it's art, and can produce a coherent argument as to why you think it is, then fair enough. I've never ever heard a coherent argument which validates theunmade bed as 'art'.

I do and I can. I'm glad you think it is fair enough, though little of what you say seems to support that.

As for the ravioli argument? WTF? Media ponce is a straw man. Call it art if you like. Time will tell if it has any effect on other people.

And that makes it artisan rather than art how how?

as i said previously:

as i said before, a direct facsimile that shows me the ability to copy light shade and form from a photograph using the medium of pencil on paper.
without trying to convey anything about the depicted object/scene other than a direct representation within the constraints of the medium.

that's my opinion, i'm happy for people to disagree with it.

but you are a ponce

You've called me a ponce. Unforgivable. For that reason, I refuse to enter into any further discussion on this subject with you. There's no need for personal abuse. 😥

You've called me a ponce. Unforgivable. For that reason, I refuse to enter into any further discussion on this subject with you. There's no need for personal abus

I called you a ponce because you called the media folks ponces, both of you were belittling folks who say things in a different way to you. Or is it ok for you to call folks ponces but not the other way?

If you hit me, it shall be murder.

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no, seriously.

You use it as a reason to disengage. so you kind of need to justify it.

Elfin... Mungus... my office, [b]Now![/b]

Shan't. He started it. 🙁

oh right, so you use his first name but I get called by my surname! I know how this is going to turn out already! I'll be the one dropping my trousers and bending over again.

MrSmith,Just to clarify then, whether a picture is art or artisan is down to how you perceive it was made?
If you think the artist has tried to convey something then it's art? If you think they haven't then it's not?
Have I got it now? 😕

If [s]you think[/s] the artist has tried to convey something then it's art?

I'll be the one dropping my trousers and bending over again.

You should be so lucky, Master Safety has a prize winning bum, don't you know?

You should be so lucky, Master Safety has a prize winning bum, don't you know?

I hear it's not all it's cracked up to be.

Have I got it now?

yes. whatever meaning you think might be an intrinsic part of my statement is correct.

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Don't cry Elfin, It'll be all arty like.... I'll wear my suede jacket, yes... the one with tassles 8)

So, what I have learned:-

Elfins bottom may or may not be perfect

If we took a photo of said bottom and then I copied it using a pencil and paper it might be art

Tracy Emins unmade bed is art becuase it's worth money

This whole thread is about a film I've not seen

I'm a peasant

Art is an opinion - where as I thought the opinion was one of artistic merit. So anything can be art, no matter how rubbish it is

Am I missing anything?

Am I missing anything?

yeah, Elfin is a prince

Charlie Reginald Mungus to your bedroom now! No soggy biscuit, no sexy donut, just you and some time to think about what you just said!

Who sir?! Me sir?! What sir?!

I said prince!

art is dead
artisan is bread

This thread is proving to be remarkably entertaining. I particularly enjoyed the discourse on the biscuit. Very funny, Mr Mingus.

Elfins bottom may or may not be perfect

It is actually perfect in every way, shape and form. 🙂

Elfin is a prince

That's better.

Have I got it now?

yes. whatever meaning you think might be an intrinsic part of my statement is correct.

That's quite interesting because that's what you did when you looked at the drawings, made up an opinion and a judgement based on that. The only difference being, you are wrong about their production and conclusion. Maybe the clue to viewing any art is less judgements and opinions and more thought and understanding?
I do appreciate your posts though, thanks for the info and thoughts.

I have been commissioned to drawing a STW members portrait in the past, maybe I could do an Elf one for the mag? 😯

Maybe the clue to viewing any art is less judgements and opinions and more thought and understanding?

possibly? but "thought and understanding" sounds like some kind of sympathy is required? well if it goes up on the wall then it's going to be judged and possibly an opinion formed.

the average time spent looking at something in a gallery is just a few seconds so for most people it's "do i like that?"
yes, and it gets looked at some more.
no, then move on to the next.

faced with a drawing copied from a photograph i'm going to want to go and look at something else that's going to float my boat.
i'm sure some people will want to ponder it some more but not me, personally i would rather look at the photograph or some real art.

MrSmith you are doing it again

well if it goes up on the wall...the average time spent looking at something in a gallery is just a few seconds so for most people it's "do i like that?"...faced with a drawing copied from a photograph.

so everyone should view the 'art' in the same way and as the artist intended?

so everyone should view the 'art' in the same way and as the artist intended?