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Wait, right, cos I'm a bit busy and shoon't be on here wasting time at all, but I'll be along later to sort all this nonsense out propply.
I really like this:
[img] 
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If anyone, anywhere, at anytime considers something to be art, then it is.
It's the only definition that works. 🙂
I look forward to your input Elfin.
Rusty that is quality. I also really that mahoosive chair that was on Dartmoor. I love loads of art stuff.
This thread was actually started as an artistic reflection on the pseudo analysis of the movie Inception, carried out across 4 or 5 seperate threads in the last week or two.
I was going to comment, but now we're all waiting for Fred, I don't think I can. He's from that London tha knows? He's bound to be, like, dead cosmopolitan and that. And understand about abstract expersionism and stuff.
Anyway, In the meantime, here are a few of them square things. Nice ones too
[img] http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRioNbRHMIF4jAuQxAUN2fHv0IL_XF1KflDg195eX0HoBDCgjQL [/img]
[img] http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGWt93ncQMmbLYre96Bk7CcKrTyv7ZPj43OyYdbuV612rQq0zE [/img]
[img] 
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:shakeshead:
So a blue square.
A black square.
Something a four year old has done.
Art? Probably only becuase it was done by an artist and the world has been told that it's art.
See I like those too. A red version of the first is almost exactly what I'm looking for, for my bedroom... 'ah much?
You want me to paint a red square on your bedroom wall?
£50 plus a four pack of Stella.
It needs to have the same sort of depth though. In red it'll look quite sultry me thinks. It'll need to fade to very dark red, almost black?
If you don't like it you can keep the £50.
But I will be drinking the Stella whilst painting.
Best not get any paint on the new carpet then!
Why don't you do it on a canvas then if I don't like it I can make an installation out of it with a sawn in half otter.
To be fair, the Rothko stuff has to be seen in real life to achieve its full impact
DrS**** - I see you are still with us - would you care to pass comment on my much earlier post then - I would like to know how you feel about the piece I have exampled and how you feel it differs from modern art.
It'll cost you a case of Alcopops for a sawn in half otter!
Actually, it depends which direction I saw it in half.
Across the mid-riff is cheaper.
I just want the top half. Thnx x
And is being able to craft something from a piece of stone more skilful than being able to cut an animal in half and successfully preserve it?
Sorry, I forgot.
I would argue that cutting a cow in half (as in a slaughterhouse worker) is slightly less skilled then creating a realistic female form from stone using a hammer and chisel.
If I want to see half a cow I'll go down to the local butchers thanks. And while I'm in there choosing between Lamb or Pork chops I won't get all emotional about what they mean to me spiritually. I'll just drool and get hungry (damn I want a lamb chop!).
Venus will be a wonderful piece of art in a thousand years time still (hopefully) whereas a cow in a fishtank won't be.
As a final argument - you can see her norks 🙂
Send me your address TSY and I'll pop an Otter Top in the mail 🙂
I was going to comment, but now we're all waiting for Fred, I don't think I can. He's from that London tha knows? He's bound to be, like, dead cosmopolitan and that. And understand about abstract expersionism and stuff.
No seriously I do know about art and stuff, and live in That London, which qualifies me to talk about art and stuff. And I am dead cosmopolitan. [i]Urbane[/i], even.
I just don't have enough time to go in depth at the mo, too busy. Soz. Shoon't be on here at all really, but I'm having a cup of tea and some Haribo for lunch.
I have designed some furniture today though. 🙂
Venus will be a wonderful piece of art in a thousand years time still (hopefully) whereas a cow in a fishtank won't be.
But WHY is it wonderful art? What makes it beautiful, what makes the artist an artist? All they did was copy the human form. What makes that art?
Or is it just because he was good with a cold chisel?
Yadda yadda Elfin, you don't know about stuff, everyone knows that!
I have an image of Elfin eating the 'Venus de Gummy' from that Simpsons episode. Video ain't on YouTube though.
Well MF, if you can't define what art is then nothing is art.
I like it cos I can't imagine being able to do it. The form is pleasing and the skill amazing.
What an idiot you truly are TSY. I [i]do[/i] know about art and stuff, and will be along later to prove so.
Tea break over.
Venus will be a wonderful piece of art in a thousand years time still (hopefully) whereas a cow in a fishtank won't be.
But what is so special about Venus? What doe sit make you think, other than, hey that looks just like a woman. I bet that was really hard to do. The difficulty here is that, if the same thing could be mass produced, would it still be as 'worthy'?
The cow in the fish tank, challenges complacency towards animals and meet in modern society, in brings us back to the reality of our relationship with meat as food. Highlighting the extent which we separate food meat from its animal origins. The cow is no more a cow than the slab of meat we stick on our plates. from one side we can see the meat we often see in the butchers, but on the other we see the cow.
What an idiot you truly are TSY. I do know about art and stuff, and will be along later to prove so.
How long [i]does[/i] it take you to trawl wikipedia??
I like it cos I can't imagine being able to do it. The form is pleasing and the skill amazing.
Okay so how about this?
[img]
[/img]
The cow in the fish tank, challenges complacency towards animals and meet in modern society, in brings us back to the reality of our relationship with meat as food. Highlighting the extent which we separate food meat from its animal origins. The cow is no more a cow than the slab of meat we stick on our plates. from one side we can see the meat we often see in the butchers, but on the other we see the cow.
You're thinking too much. That's what I don't get. I don't want to spend a month thinking of some clever explanation as to why something is art so my dinner party guests will be impressed.
It's a cow in a fish tank. Nuff said.
If he'd put gold fish in the tank with the cow I might have at least found it amusing.
The VdM is just lovely (for me). It looks great. It's a pretty woman, well depicted with skill.
How about my above example?
MF - it's a blob. It fills a space. It does NOTHING for me.
You're thinking too much.
Not at all, its fairly blatant.
Incidentally, for me sculpture is fantastic, because the VdM for example was
there within the rock, and the sculpture managed to take away al the stuff that wasn't VdM.always
MF - it's a blob. It fills a space. It does NOTHING for me.
But you just said this about the VdM
I like it cos I can't imagine being able to do it. The form is pleasing and the skill amazing.
So could you imagine being able to do the second example?
Is the form not pleasing?
Is the skill not amazing?
Bit harsh that Elfin. Please come and share your knowledge later. You too can be part of my 'exhibition'.
So could you imagine being able to do the second example?
Is the form not pleasing?
Is the skill not amazing?
Nope.
I couldn't imagine doing the second example - but becuase it's a pointless blob and nothing would motivate me to do so.
The form isn't pleasing - it's a pointless blob.
Skill - I dunno how it's made. It takes more skill then I have to make lots of things - but that doesn't make them art.
The blob just looks like the sort of rubbish local councils spend money on. Some local 'artist' is commissioned to produce a grafitti magnet. It's unvieled by the mayor, featured in the local rag, and promptly forgotten about.
It's a blob......
Bit harsh that Elfin. Please come and share your knowledge later. You too can be part of my 'exhibition'.
Do you want me to chop him in half?
I'll have to think about the going rate for a human.
I'll have to think about the going rate for a human.
Well, don't charge too much. For elfin, they will be a lot of people wanting that contract
DrS****, I do not understand your reasoning - the reasons you argue you like the first piece can be easily argued for why the second piece has equal artistic merit.
What it comes down to is that you appear to have a very simple view of what makes art have value to you.
Is simple so bad?
No-one seems able to define what art is. And maybe that's my point. If anything can be art as long as someone deems it to be then it's a bit stupid really. Where will art end? Eventually something truly ridiculous will be deemed art and devalue what has gone before.
But I don't entirely agree with your point.
Making a lump of stone look feminine, making it look like a woman is skillful.
Making a lump of whatever the blob is made of look like a blob is less skilled. It's a blob. How do you know the artist wasn't trying to sculpt the hanging gardens of Babylon but was a bit rubbish?
Elfin's not that big so it shouldn't be too much.
He says he has a prize winning bottom so I'm not sure if cutting him length ways left to right is fair...
Could art be anything that someone hasn't left in a completely natural state?
DrRS**** has confused art with interior decoration
If anything can be art as long as someone deems it to be then it's a bit stupid really.
[url= http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/ViewWork?workid=26850 ]Marcel Duchamps fountain[/url]
Where will art end?
'Art is dead' has a common refrain since the original blank canvas was hung
Er, it's a toilet?
DrRS**** has confused art with interior decoration
Oh bugger, not again.......
Could art be anything that someone hasn't left in a completely natural state?
That may be the case but some enterprising artist will no doubt give a weird name to a tree somewhere and then you will be wrong. Art is what you say it is. They act of defining it as art both makes you into an artist and the subject into art.
I used to have ongoing discussions with a friend about the nature of art. She stated that art cannot have a use. I countered that with the assertion that a vase can be considered to be a piece of art but she insisted it was design. You can never win this and you can never nail down a precise definition of art. The second you do, it will change.
Was the guy who managed to create convincing copies of ancient artworks an artist or a craftsman (or even just a plagiarist)? He was clearly technically very competent and created beautiful things but they were not original, they were forgeries. Were they art?
The definition of art is one of the great philosophical questions of our time and the usefulness of a definition even moreso.
No-one seems able to define what art is. And maybe that's my point.
Well you aren't making a very good job at it to be sure.
Making a lump of whatever the blob is made of look like a blob is less skilled. It's a blob. How do you know the artist wasn't trying to sculpt the hanging gardens of Babylon but was a bit rubbish?
Okay, how about this piece from the same artist?
[img] 
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That one is an improvement MF. At least I can tell roughly what it is.
She stated that art cannot have a use
So if I hang a picture on my wall to cover a crack in the plaster then it's no longer art?
I'm really confused now.
So the unmade bed isn't art, cos a bed has a use - and had been used?