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How about sharing & caring for your relative/friend/neighbour first? Life’s challenge is not to love those who love you but more, to love those who you don’t like…
Is this some sort of variation on "charity starts at home"? Why the **** do I owe anything to a relative or neighbor> over people I connect with?
Anyway, this is just turning into another Brexit/EU, are you in or out thread.
Sort it out mods FFS.
Fair comment. I'll stop now, <mod> back on topic please people. </mod>
Brexiteers are some of the most unpleasant people living.
You can’t educate nor argue with them, they’re just ingrained in their own self importance.
Any other “reason” for voting Brexit is utter bollox.
life is too short to spend it in the company of arseholes.
Tell them their stupid
Well I don’t think I’d lose sleep if I lost you lot as friends so jog on IMHO. 🙄
I've got friends and family on both sides of the fence, and it's made not one bit of difference to our relationships. Maybe it's the fact that my career NEEDS me to ask questions, try and understand thinking and rationale and then use the classic "pace pace lead" to create change in attitude, so I'm used to not trying to tell someone they are "wrong" but rather, understand the motivations, fears (it's usually fear that drives all behaviours) etc that make them feel how they do. I definitely don't see all the Leave voters as bigots, racists or idiots - and even if I did, I'd not say it as that's never going to sway hearts and minds.
As for misinformation - watch The Great Hack to understand how these exceptional marketing campaigns understand the desires, fears, behaviours and more that drive a demographic - and how the campaigners know how to manipulate that to unbelievably effective levels. I work with data led marketing and recently saw the Cambridge Analytica pitch deck - it's frankly terrifying, and explains how these modern methods of hight advanced propaganda work. I genuinely urge every single remain voter to watch The Great Hack if they haven't already - it'll change your view of Brexit voters and Trump voters when you realise they are not the bigots it's easy to pigeonhole them as, but an audience who have been massively manipulated.
I envy you and Brexit, we have HK and China, at least you get a chance to discuss it freely and to vote on it.
Good point stewartc.
We need to appreciate what we have
But surely giving it up for no good reason is the last thing we should do.
Is this some sort of variation on “charity starts at home”? Why the **** do I owe anything to a relative or neighbor> over people I connect with?
You seem to be implying an aggressive stance to those who don’t conform to your view? Even if (by social norms) you should have a close relationship with them?
Are you sure your ‘connectors’ are as aligned with you as you think? Will they stand with you in the storms of life more than your family?
You have to understand where your friends come from and why they are shaped that way.
I don't begrudge friends strong opinions as much as strangers for obvious reasons.
I find talking politics with Brexit people difficult not because of different opinions when it is a point of opinion. The problem arises where key arguments push forward by the leave campaign are stated then you present evidence to prove those arguments wrong then the counter argument comes "well that's my opinion". It is no longer a point of opinion I have just presented evidence to the opposite, it's now a lie and evidence to the contrary. This is the frustration it's like arguing with a child with cake on their face, an empty plate of cake who keep claiming they didn't eat the cake, it is treating me like an idiot to try and present an argument in the face of overwhelming evidence.
Difference in opinion is fine. Blindly ignoring evidence is not.
The problem arises where key arguments push forward by the leave campaign are stated then you present evidence to prove those arguments wrong then the counter argument comes “well that’s my opinion”.
Exactly this! Had the same conversation with my Mrs (a nurse) this morning.
She says “They’ve got their opinions and you’ve got yours”
“It’s not to do with opinions, it’s to do with ignoring facts and just saying my opinion is different”
“Well people interpret facts in different ways”
“Which is different from choosing to ignore facts. How about if their “opinion” was anti-vaxxer?”
She kind of got my point then, I think....
Theres a lot of "your refusal to tolerate my (or others) intolerance makes you intolerant" on this thread.
There are subjects you can have different opinions on and still respect other peoples opinions.
There are subjects where other peoples opinions make no sense to you at all, but recognise that theres room for other people see things differently.
There are subjects that should lead to people being social pariahs.
Its just a matter of where you draw the lines.
With regard to the "line drawing", opinions vary, but its worth listening to what Obama said recently about call out culture in the U.S. - https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1189555651531476994
And bearing that in mind; I've followed @RemainerNow and @Femi_Sorry for a while now on the twidder and seen them convince more people through respectful discussion than any amount of shouting.