Sounds similar to the prior issues with cigarettes to me, so how long will it be before we can only drink in our houses, or booze is banned altogether - 10 years?
So is the goverment doing its best to ensure we can't enjoy ourselves, whislt earning more tax revenue and pretending to shore up the NHS?
*awaits bicycle tax announcment*
Just brew your own. 40p a pint. 🙂
They cannot ban beer. It's too easy to make it yourself
If the numbers are the same as last time they talked about it, it will make no difference at all to the. Vast majority of people.
So is the goverment doing its best to ensure we can't enjoy ourselves,
What do you drink that costs 45p per unit?
Cheep crap booze is drunk by people who just want to get pissed, I see no problem with removing that "sales segment" from stores.
Can't see it making a lot of difference, it's all gesture politics. Most branded alcohol is already above what they're suggesting, even in the supermarkets. It's a non starter when drinking out, £ 4.50 for a bottle of Heineken on Saturday night! Those that have a problem will find the money anyway. For it to actually work the price increase would have to be ridiculous and they haven't got the balls to do that, nor would it be appropriate. As far as I'm aware moderate (i.e. well within the guidelines) has little affect on health, unlike say moderate smoking.
Unless you drink lambrini or special brew it's hardly likely to affect you significanly is it?
Worst case scenario it pushes prices up accross the board like the minimum wage did for everyones earnings, if carling is £1/can then stella will have to be £1.50, it ftella is £1.50 then Leffe will have to be £2 just to get that preception of being better, just like wages rose as skilled workers earning just above the minimum wanted differentiating from the cleaners, etc.
Best case carling, carlsberg, tetleys, boddingtons, alcopops and yates wine lodge dissapear and the market if overun with microbreweries who can suddenly compete with the crap stuff on price, leading to more competition and better drinks for everyone.
What do you drink that costs 45p per unit?
Plenty of stuff in the real ale section at supermarkets is close to that when it's on offer at £1/bottle. And the end result will be somewhere ebtweenthe two options i just suggested, all prices ill rise and the crap will hopefully dissapear.
I've come to the conclusion that British people and alcohol are like Americans and guns. Nearly everyone else has booze but few nations treat it the way British people do. Booze is CHEAP in Luxembourg but there's nowhere near the level of public drunkenness and disorder.
Cost is not the problem in the UK, it's people and bringing in minimum costs on booze won't change that but like people say, it's gesture politics designed to show you're doing something by doing nothing useful (see also, airport security).
What I asking / predicting is - that this is just the start perhaps of something that limits the way we consume alchohol - controlled by the state on the premise of "health"
Live and let er, die imo
Its only going to effect two segments of society really
1....
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2....
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But It boils my piss listening to MP's (fresh from their subsidised bar) announcing, as on the Today programme this morning, that 'people need to be paying for the consequences of their unhealthy choices" Eh? So we don't already? I pay £7 for a packet of 20 fags. 90% of which is tax? In what way am I not paying for my choices?
It's not the booze at all.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15265317 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15265317[/url]
I guess you have to ask whether the country should support people who drink to the level where they damage their health despite knowing better. The answer may well be no, but it's clear that putting the price up won't change anything so it's a daft idea.
The problem is dying costs money, the state spends £100k+ getting a kid through their GCSE's. They need people living and working to pay for the next genertion, not costing even more as they die in hospitals.
klumpy - Had an issue recently with a member of staff who did some really quite bad things on a company paid trip. My argument is that the stuff he did he has in him anyway and that we shouldn't just say "Oh, he had a few drinks" as an excuse. Interesting to see it's an accepted viewpoint.
thisisnotaspoon - but will putting a minimum price on booze change things? Heroin seems quite pricy but people still take that
Surely, given the present pension and housing situation, a few more of us carking it early, rather than hanging around smelling of wee and watching Cash in the Attic, would be doing society a favour?
Let's look at some figures, using the proposed 45p / unit price.
500ml can of regular strength beer (4%) - 2 units - 90p
500ml can of strong beer (6%) - 3 units - £1.35
330ml bottle of WKD (4.5%) - 1.48 units - 67p
2l bottle of tramp juice cider (7.5%) - 15 units - £6.75
70cl bottle of wine (13%) - 9 units - £4.05
70cl bottle of spirits (40%) - 28 units - £12.60
Conclusion; the people most affected by this will be the people buying cheap 'value' falling-down juice. Those buying higher quality drinks (real ale, branded spirits, pretty much any wine) won't be affected.
Interestingly, the 'binge drinking' Stella / alcopop demographic should be largely unaffected too. They're already massively overpaying for their tipple of choice.
Interestingly, the 'binge drinking' Stella / alcopop demographic should be largely unaffected too.
Have you watched the (frankly terrifying) 999 Emergency series on Blackpool, thats just finished on Channel 4? Apparently a large problem is the standing up/falling over drinking establishments selling acid-coloured 'shots' ridiculously cheap. I think it'd impact on that
Back of the envelope suggests it doesn't even impact on the '3 cases of beer for £20' offers you get at Tescos, so at best it will make a marginal impact on a very small group of people.
For comparison, bar measures.
pint of regular strength beer - 2.27 units - £1.02
pint of strong beer - 3.4 units - £1.53
330ml bottle of WKD - 1.48 units - £1.48
pint of stong cider 4.26 units - £1.92
125ml glass of wine - 1.6 units - 73p
175ml glass of wine - 2.28 units - £1.02
250ml glass of wine - 3.25 units - £1.46
25ml shot - 1 unit - 45p
Interesting reading when you consider actual bar prices.
It will fire up the black market in imported booze again.
Nanny State
Unfortunately there's an awful lot of people who really do need nannying.
Nobody needs nannying. Its buggering up Darwinist Natural Selection. Evolution should be allowed to run its course, without interference
Gather round children, it's Stoner's Graph Time!
First looked at this when the Scot's parliament first mooted 50p/unit minimum in spring 2009. Have updated it with Asda prices today.
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Why should the innocent drinkers pay what is effect a collective fine punishment to cover the misdeeds of the guilty?
...Back of the envelope suggests it doesn't even impact on the '3 cases of beer for £20' offers you get at Tescos, so at best it will make a marginal impact on a very small group of people...
i guess that's the idea, introduce it at a level so low no-one will notice.
Does anyone here actually drink the cheap cider and high-strength lager that's likely to be affected by this?
yes, kids.
someone should explain to kids the poor economic choice that is drinking buckie or alcopops 🙂
They really ought to be laying into the 3 litre boxes of Asda Perry.... *barf*
yes, kids.
I said anyone [b]here[/b].
Or have I come on Pinkbike by mistake?
I find it baffling that a bunch of middle-aged, mostly middle class cyclists are getting all faux-Clarkson outraged over a policy designed explicitly to save lives.
Kryton57 - Member
Sounds similar to the prior issues with cigarettes to me, so how long will it be before we can only drink in our houses, or booze is banned altogether - 10 years?
Dammit, someone owes me a tenner.
Had this exact same conversation 10 years ago. And Lo and Behold, you can still go out and get drunk.
Must dig that guys phone number out, bets a bet
There is a massive bit of research out there which asked underage drinkers why they drank. They said that they do it because it's cheaper than the other leisure options they have. That is who this minimum price for alcohol is aimed at - because they asked for it.
The last time I drank alcohol that would be affected by this was when I was an underage binge drinker.
After that, wouldn't notice a thing.
When were cigarettes banned all together or are they not and only allowed in your house?
Or is this just a normal over the top reaction, hence 'nanny state' comment.
Seeing as I can't see the wholsesalers/resellers swallowing the cost, all booze prices will rise slightly to accomodate.
So where is the money going - manufacturers pockets, supermarket profit or tax to the goverment?
If its the latter is basically becomes a stealth/additional tax for those of use that might continue to buy (decent) booze, as well as a deterent to the acid-shot drinking kids. IE, paying an extra 42p for a bottle of fine rum might not be an issue for me - but hold on, I've paid extra tax to the goverment to support next doors alchy kid getting his stomach pumped?
[quote=Kryton57 ]Seeing as I can't see the wholsesalers/resellers swallowing the cost, all booze prices will rise slightly to accomodate.
I'm not understanding your point. What cost would the wholesalers/retailers have to swallow?
So where is the money going - manufacturers pockets, supermarket profit or tax to the goverment?
I liked how you typed that as if it's some sort of secret conspiracy. Where on earth do you think the money would go?
'stealth tax' 'nanny state' oooh just need 'it's an outrage' 'think of the kids' and I have a full house.
I've come to the conclusion that British people and alcohol are like Americans and guns. Nearly everyone else has booze but few nations treat it the way British people do
Very good point- never thought of it like that but you are correct. Its not the use per se its how we use it. For example if everyone went down the pub with their folks to family pubs and drunk just as much on a firday/saturday night they would behave considerably differently.
I am not sure what they are doing tbh. Unless they raise it substantially it will make no difference
FWIW I work next door to a Witherspoons and it is always full when I get intot the office and when i leave
I suspect this will make little to no difference
What wee are after is a cultural shift in the use of alcohoil within our society
I see it as beeing unlikely to work and "education" programmes would be even more controversial
Rather see a tax on unhealthy food tbh and even that ois abiot knee jerk.
Nanny state? You expect the state to look after you when you're ill, why is it not right for the state to try and prevent people messing themselves up? Prevention not better than cure?
The extortionate tax on alcohol has already paid for the healthcare.
Anyone intently staring at there own navel regarding us Brits drinking habits should go for a night out in Finland.
Couple of Russian friends of mine also have described situations which make us look like a bunch of Genteel namby pambies in comparison.
The extortionate tax on alcohol has already paid for the healthcare.
Really? I think not.
Nanny state? You expect the state to look after you when you're ill, why is it not right for the state to try and prevent people messing themselves up? Prevention not better than cure?
Eh? A life support after they've reduced my house / savings value to zero, despite a lifetime of tax / NI? Not much to look forward to, if I get taxed and contrinute to other peoples health, is it? Leave the money with me to provide myself a better post-retirement lifestyle maybe?
Piemonster/DruidH - I don't understand the minimum per unit cost is made up of - is that just a legal "level" that shops have to adhere to in the sale of the product, or has tax been applied to make it so?
Couple of Russian friends of mine also have described situations which make us look like a bunch of Genteel namby pambies in comparison.
The evening of the day the Trawlers returned in Stornoway was any eye opener....
...I don't understand the minimum per unit cost is made up of - is that just a legal "level" that shops have to adhere to in the sale of the product
yes
...or has tax been applied to make it so?
no.
