MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
stevextc
Free MemberWhy would you think “the market’s” are scared?.
This all happened because of remainers actually.
eta:
He said: “My love is grouse shooting. And we are in the middle of [the season] right now.
“The truth is that I didn’t do anything on Friday. I shot.
Is there a better candidate to be shot out of a clown cannon into the sea than this turd?
I am also worried about a war.
I want a party that I have confidence in to sort out domestic affairs, and a party that will not go to war against putin.
You genuinely believe voting in the Labour Party may lead to war with Russia? What are you smoking?
seems the markets (currency) have got wind of something :/ or a glitch ?/
LOL at tory boys appeal to Authority fallacy of Conservative Home
Further LOLing at the thought that anyone takes the opinions of Daniel 'absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market ' Hannan with anything other than absolute contempt.
I don’t see anyone in the Labour Party I believe who can lead us out of this
To be fair, I don't trust Labour that much either, but the Tories have consistently proven over the past 12 years that they certainly can't lead us out of this, that or the other. I'm not sure there is anyone in Westminster I would trust to get us out of anything right now.
And here comes the QE..
Someone remind me again that the magic money tree is not a thing. 😀
Fire up those printing presses!!!
Never mind dollar parity, we’ll have parity with the Somalian Shilling by next week
I know it's been mentioned but I'd missed this nugget, I assume The chancellor is just on a sabbatical and will return to the day job in a week or two.
"Kwasi Kwarteng worked at Odey Asset Management, the firm Odey founded, before becoming an MP. The value of the company’s flagship European hedge fund is up about 145 per cent this year"
Countdown to a Kyiv Fur Hat Photo-Op for our gallant PM? Apparently even her own spin doctor can't get hold of her.
onehundredthidiot
Full MemberI know it’s been mentioned but I’d missed this nugget, I assume The chancellor is just on a sabbatical and will return to the day job in a week or two.
“Kwasi Kwarteng worked at Odey Asset Management, the firm Odey founded, before becoming an MP. The value of the company’s flagship European hedge fund is up about 145 per cent this year”
Yeah now read the article I linked from Odey earlier blaming this on remainers. Complete twunt.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/09/27/remainers-blame-run-pound-claims-hedge-fund-tycoon-crispin-odey/
I'm going to have to step away from the news.
He sells sterling short to make money but.
Odey described his bets against gilts as “the gifts that keep on giving” but blamed the rout of the pound on“Remainers” who “hate the government”.
Sorry I missed this at the time but, did they sack the head of the Treasury to get this budget through because he wouldn't sign off on it???
Yup. And they wonder why the markets are slightly suspicious of their competence.
and yes the wars (plural Blair took us to war more times than any other leader) plays heavy on my mind when I see Russians being conscripted against their will and what is going on in ukraine. I worry that could be us.
You know that Putin lead his own people to war and they have always had a large standing army with conscription.
You seem to think that Keir Starmer is just twitching to get into power, so he can lead us on a glorious campaign against fascist Russia! Is that how you are justifying carrying on with this shit show of a government?
Sorry I missed this at the time but, did they sack the head of the Treasury to get this budget through because he wouldn’t sign off on it???
He wouldn't be the person to sign it off, the role is advisory and to implement policies. They tore up convention by sacking him because he didn't fit their fiscal ideology.
So what's worse: incompetence or criminal conspiracy? And which is it? Bit of both? Christ, what the **** is going on?
martinhutch
Some (Kwasi’s mates and former employer) think like that, but others are simply wisely dumping British investments because they expect their value to decline. To characterise it as being ‘scared’ is wrong, I agree, that would suggest irrational decisions.
The only real exceptions to dumping must fund managers who are specifically looking after UK based portfolio's.
I think the main differences are those who were given a heads-up vs those who weren't... from a personal financial perspective it's unlikely any of them will lose more (e.g. mortgage) than they gain (e.g. bonus) they would have to be completely incompetent.
The same applies to Kwasi and Truss .. if you get over the idea they give a shit what happens to either the economy or people or being re-elected vs their personal financial wealth OR you have to believe they really are so thick/bat-shit crazy to not only totally ignore what any independent expert would have told them but to then pour petrol on the fire through their lack of response or explanations.
(It's not even like Sunak didn't make it clear... )
I think in Truss's case it must have quickly become clear (even if she didn't know already) she wasn't going to be on a PM's salary for long.
She must have known that even in the leadership contest not that the PM's salary is really that significant compared to what she can get out of selling off the UK economy rather than a slow asset strip ??
pound on the way down again! :/ so much for calming the markets
I, for a change, am actually looking forward to the Conservative conference. Could be...interesting...
Meanwhile:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/09/26/britain-europe-weak-economy/
…and this is after the BoD emergency bond buying scheme has announced. I guess the word “emergency” has spooked everyone even more.
Love the Biden quote which is basically “FFS get your shit together”.
I have an increasing feeling we arnt seeing Truss again, and that she’s on indefinite sick leave with a deputy PM in place until ‘24.
thestabiliser
So what’s worse: incompetence or criminal conspiracy? And which is it? Bit of both? Christ, what the **** is going on?
The only real conspiracy as such is with misleading the Conservative party members in the leadership campaign.
The rest of it is just what anyone with no morals or beliefs if they are not competent enough to milk the system longer term would do given the chance.
For all his faults, Boris was in for the long term asset strip of the UK and he carried this with his charisma and ability to bare faced lie... Truss has all the charisma of a wet fish and was never going to last, she just promised the Tory membership (the only people mattered to make her PM) what they wanted to hear then set about lining her pockets and favours as quickly as possible.
and yes the wars (plural Blair took us to war more times than any other leader) plays heavy on my mind when I see Russians being conscripted against their will and what is going on in ukraine. I worry that could be us.
Isn't conscription (in the guise of National Service) more of an idea beloved by the right wing than the left?
You seem to think that Keir Starmer is just twitching to get into power, so he can lead us on a glorious campaign against fascist Russia! Is that how you are justifying carrying on with this shit show of a government?
****ing hell. Are you reading what I have written?
IN NO WAY DO I WANT THE TORIES TO REMAIN IN GOVERNMENT
KIER STARMER AND THE LABOUR PARTY HAVE NOT CONVINCED ME THEY ARE CAPABLE
YES I AM SHITTING MYSELF ABOUT WAR probably more than the economy
that clearer?
So the bank stepped in to stop pension funds folding
Somehow that will be lost on the pensioners still voting Tory
YES I AM SHITTING MYSELF ABOUT WAR probably more than the economy
Poverty will kill more here than war
And here comes the QE..
Is this to try and bring down the rates on gilts?
Surely the bigger effect will be inflation and therefore even larger rate rises?
Isn’t conscription (in the guise of National Service) more of an idea beloved by the right wing than the left?
Authoritarianism isn't a left/right thing. You can have communist dictators and anarco-capitalism. It's just that the current generation of western politics tends to give authoritarian right and liberal left wings, then every so often something upsets the balance like Brexit pitching the authoritarian left (EU), against the liberal right (a deregulated economy post Brexit) which is why both parties ended up split 50/50.
KIER STARMER AND THE LABOUR PARTY HAVE NOT CONVINCED ME THEY ARE CAPABLE
I appreciate the clarification. But as a genuine question, not an attempt to start a row: what would it take for Labour to convince you?
she’s on indefinite sick leave with a deputy PM in place until ‘24.
I haven't seen much, if anything, of the Deputy PM, what has she been doing?
Apart from smoking cigars, drinking, and not watching the calories.
Thats a good question.
White charger, armour plate and a lance?
Whenever I listen to him, he does not come across as a leader, from what I've seen his opposition has been weak against a Tory party that has been scoring own goal after own goal. I would hope he cant be any worse than the Tories - then again I'd hope my seven year old would do less damage. But does he have the policies to recover the economy? Is he really the guy to lead us out of this? I like the talk of a green energy company. I'm for nationalising essential industries.
I had high hopes for that break away party in 2019 being the beginning of a real change in our political system. But that lasted about 5 minutes.
Anyways this thread isn't about Kier as pointed out above.
The pound is in freefall again then.
I wonder how much will be wiped out today?
Aren’t we up to £500 billion and counting so far?
Has anyone seen or heard from our PM? I’ve checked Instagram, but nothing
Do you think she’ll stay in hiding until the next ‘fiscal event’ on 23rd November?
Will she cancel the Tory conference?
I wonder if she’s applied for political asylum in Rwanda?
Any comment from Rishi yet?
So many questions…
thisisnotaspoon Full Member
Authoritarianism isn’t a left/right thing. You can have communist dictators and anarco-capitalism. It’s just that the current generation of western politics tends to give authoritarian right and liberal left wings, then every so often something upsets the balance like Brexit pitching the authoritarian left (EU), against the liberal right (a deregulated economy post Brexit) which is why both parties ended up split 50/50.
I was thinking in terms of late 20th century/early 21st century British politics rather than in a wider sense. "Bring back National Service will give all those whiney young people some backbone and teach them some respect" seems to be a popular refrain amongst certain parts of the right rather than our current version of the left at least.
Am I right in thinking they have raised interest rates to bring down inflation, and at the same time now started QE to increase money supply and increase inflation?
Even before that, you had BofE policy (interest rate rises to suppress inflation) and Kwasinomics (tax cuts which are potentially inflationary) in direct conflict.
Just doing a bit of investigation as to how higher interest rates will affect my mortgage (couple of years to prepare/to go till remortgage), I note that the HSBC calculator (first one on Google) only gives results up to 20% interest.
Given these record breaking times, are we likely to exceed the previous, 17% base rate, record?
Proper Banana Republic shit!
I can just imagine the s****ing going on in places like Greece and Italy and other places referred to by the Brexiteers as economic basket cases, as they look at the UK’s borrowing rate going through the roof.
Liz must be holed up reading her Big Bumper Book of Economics
Yep, swifty moving from shitshow to full scale meltdown now.
Nice quote from Rayner at the Labour conference:
“From the party of stability to causing earthquakes. From the party of business to a slapdown from the IMF. From the party of serious govt to the party of parties. Liz Truss has even crashed the pork market. Now. THAT. is. A disgrace."
KIER STARMER AND THE LABOUR PARTY HAVE NOT CONVINCED ME THEY ARE CAPABLE
Capable of what ???
Ultimately all Starmer has to do economy wise is follow the advice of experts.... rather than ignore it.
Switch "for the economy" for any other set of independent experts.
A message for Norwich-supporting Liz this afternoon:
Slow Interest rate rises were on the table this time last week but christ, they've taken the cost of living crises as was and really bumped it up by scaring the crap out of everyone with potentially massive increased mortgage payments - whilst tax cuts to the wealthiest 1%, absolutely outdone themselves.
I feel sorry for the BBC guy that's got to walk the country to find someone who can give balance by saying they think this is a really great idea - id maybe head to the South East...
Really looking forward to seeing how long Truss can hide for, Johnson would be out doubling down on everything right now.
whilst tax cuts to the wealthiest 1%, absolutely outdone themselves.
I think you might have missed the lifting of the limit on banker's bonus's...
No point just cutting the tax if they can't get the bonus...
Ultimately all Starmer has to do economy wise is follow the advice of experts…. rather than ignore it.
Eh? What "experts".......the ones that favour a right-wing trajectory or the ones that favour a left-wing trajectory?
And with what goal in mind - satisfying the market, which has no interest in economic justice or the quality of people's lives, or other goals such as providing people with secure employment, housing, and financial security?
Economics is about priorities, and it is priorities that should distinguish the Labour Party from the Tory Party.
Edit:
"I am in favor of cutting taxes under any circumstances and for any excuse, for any reason, whenever possible."
Milton Friedman - a world renowned "expert".
I think you might have missed the lifting of the limit on banker’s bonus’s…
No point just cutting the tax if they can’t get the bonus…
Yeah, almost pales into insignificance when a lot of the population are directly looking at being homeless this time next year.
They’re currently on recess for party conference season.
Which suggests that a recall of parliament is impossible as cancelling or postponing the Conservative Party Conference would suggest that there is an economic crises.
So far Kwarteng appears to be sticking to his plan of not revisiting the issue until towards the end of November.
id maybe head to the South East…
I woudn't bank on it, how about those northerners who voted them in?
If he leaves it until the end of November, as he clearly plans too, then addressing the currency issue will involve seeing how many chickens there are to a goat
Milton Friedman – a world renowned “expert”.
I always find it remarkable that the fall of the Soviet Union is held up as irrefutable, unchallengeable proof that Marxism is an unusable economic model but the fall of the Southern Cone Dictatorships or the crash of 2008 doesn't result in the same conclusions re Freidman.
id maybe head to the South East…
Knock on any door to a house that is wholly owned by the person that lives in it.
id maybe head to the South East…
I woudn’t bank on it, how about those northerners who voted them in?
I believe that Greater London has the largest amount of Labour votes of anywhere in the United Kingdom.
When I have previously pointed that out on stw it was suggested that London wasn't really what is considered the South East.
Which surprised not least because the only other GCE O level I have apart from art is geography.
*Makes mental note to ignore @DT78 in future*
Yes, put me on that list
Its like when people deliberately pick a stock and try to crash it to buy it out. was there some reddit group that cottoned on to this with a gaming company and collective caused a massive problem by buying shares. maybe the British public, well those not freezing and soon to be starving should be shown how to shore up the pound collective to stop these bastards?
It was literally the opposite situation of the point you are trying to make.
The best way for the British public to "shore up the pound" is to vote out the people who are trying to wreck the economy.... the Tory party.
I have asked my scumbag Tory MP to ask for a vote of no confidence.
He may have been team Sunak and more than happy to twist the knife.
As this whole debacle has now gone way past a simple market reaction to a policy announcement and become a govt confidence issue , I just cannot see how the country can get out of this without a GE.
By cutting taxes making the BoE intervene to raise interest rates, the bankers' bonuses are guaranteed and they didn't need to raise a finger (like they do to the rest of us). Kwarteng's rewards from Odeyous will be colossal.
*Makes mental note to ignore @DT78 in future*
Yes, put me on that list
Don't be put off expressing your opinions DT78, some people might prefer the warm reassuring security of an echo chamber which reaffirms their own beliefs, but for me a thread in which everyone parrots the same opinion is guaranteed to be boring.
yes - boredom is the problem here
Its like when people deliberately pick a stock and try to crash it to buy it out. was there some reddit group that cottoned on to this with a gaming company and collective caused a massive problem by buying shares. maybe the British public, well those not freezing and soon to be starving should be shown how to shore up the pound collective to stop these bastards?
Gamestop, basically the a US example of a retailer like HMV, Blockbuster etc, a shop who's industry no longer existed (physical media for computer games).
Various big hedge funds held short positions on them, which is a promise to sell an amount of the stock at a certain price on a certain day. So if the stock goes down more than predicted they win because they can just buy a stock off the market and sell it to the other party. If the price goes up they lose as they have to buy a stock off the market at a high price and sell it at a low one. It's dangerous as for no up-front cost, you can make unlimited losses.
What Reddit managed to do was buy enough of their stock to make those losses actually happen. And they made some money in the process just by pumping up the stock price.
A few people bought the options to buy the shares from the hedge funds, those are the guys that made a fortune.
Then the price started to go up. So people bought the shares for a joke.
A few people made a bit of money from the shares
Some Hedge Funds made some big losses.
A lot of normal people made some big losses when the price inevitably crashed again.
It's far from a morality tale.
Former BofE MPC member on prospects for Team Kwuss.
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1574786705659412480
GameStop that was it. Btw I wasn’t suggesting it to make money, but to stop others from shorting and screwing the economy
Was just a random idea chucked out there, not suggesting it’s a good one. Just maybe someone out there has an idea how how the public could start to do something to stop the economy crashing. Rather than relying on politicians, who haven’t proven themselves to be particularly trustworthy or competent. (Mostly tories, but labour has track record too)
Only option appears to be wait two years and vote for the red party who *might* be better than the blue party that have proven worse than useless.
I want better than that.
Note. I haven’t called anyone stupid, and idiot or said I’ll ignore them because they are just spouting what I consider nonesense
Who was the poster who was worried they'd ****ed up at work? I think you're not doing all that badly mate compared to some...
Only option appears to be wait two years and vote for the red party who *might* be better than the blue party that have proven worse than useless.
or the SNP and remove ourselves from the debacle
It's all going off
https://twitter.com/Jack_Blanchard_/status/1575106670023548929
It really annoys me when these experts just sit on the fence. tell us what you really think!
Former BofE MPC member on prospects for Team Kwuss.
<div></div>
Isn't it wasn't it Ron Manager in charge of England when Danny Blanchflower was in the national side ? Marvelous, small boys , jumpers for goal posts Marvelous. 😁
A bollard. A thimble. A beef gravy granule.
A bilge pump. A plectrum. A Pokemon annual.
A doorknob. A chaffinch. An old rusty kettle.
A footbath. A clothes peg. A wine stain. A pebble.
A ceramic spoon holder. A fruit polo mint.
A discarded tissue. A puddle. Some lint.
A used toner cartridge. Some musical socks.
A build up of silt. A stuffed startled fox.
A plimsoll. A wingnut. A set of false teeth.
A novelty wall clock with the face of Prue Leith.
A beetle. A drumlin. A short piece of string.
A packet of Wotsits. A plant pot. Most things.
Not bad for 3 weeks in the job
Hilarious that no Tory MPs will be going to the conference next week
https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1575128310740389889?t=Pwo5RdQUeMkzdrf4fDAGMw&s=19
Lolz @ fueled. Thats good
It really didn’t take long at all for Truss to take Borises converted title of Worst Prime Minister EVER! did it?
Well that answers my question from the previous page as to why we appeared to have QE and interest rate rises at the same time.
Had they not intervened, there would have been mass insolvencies of pension funds by THIS AFTERNOON.
And yet...
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1575135370181754881?t=0vhsLJKNBvu_wFBlxHZAhw&s=19
Doubling down until they’ve bankrupted the country?
You’ve got to admire their commitment to their biblical scale stupidity in the face of all the evidence
That’s Brexiteers for you
stupidity in the face of all the evidence
Does anyone have any further info on the pensions almost insolvency?
I don't have a clue and it sounds insane, but terrifying.
thegeneralist
Full MemberDoes anyone have any further info on the pensions almost insolvency?
I don’t have a clue and it sounds insane, but terrifying.
This was linked from the original tweet, I'm not smart enough to understand it though
https://www.risk.net/derivatives/7954682/uk-pensions-hit-with-ps100m-margin-calls-as-gilts-and-sterling-slide
I don’t have a clue and it sounds insane, but terrifying.
I don’t understand it either but I think they’re at the stage of listing everything they own on eBay to raise the funds that will back up their positions
Markets go up and down all the time. They are driven by sentiment, not rational thinking and logic.
Obv the sentiment since Friday has been:
'Let's get as far away from this as possible' hence the dumping of Sterling etc...
Long-term, the markets are the least of her worries. It's the wider impacts which will be more of a problem.
How do you like them onions
Pension funds related
Robert Peston
@Peston
·
1h
Here is one way of seeing the scale of the markets rout that was close to wiping out pension funds. At start of year, 40-year gilt (government bond) with a 0.5% coupon was worth 85p. This morning it was trading at 25p and even after Bank of England intervention it's 34p. This kind of savage devaluation was always going to wreak havoc.
I have being saying for ages that Q/E will be used. There you go.
We have this terrible misunderstanding of how the government funds things - it has been caught with its pants down.
Bonds issued every time the government spends on a deficit is a needless operation and has caused havoc over the last few days.
We now have a funny old system where the government spends, then borrows money it issued in a previous life via bonds - then BoE issues new money for the government to buy back the bonds.
And we wonder why everyone has deep misunderstandings about how the government finances itself.
It would just be easier to accept the government has its own bank and can fund itself. That is the truth.
You know in the 2008 crisis did the private sector bail itself out? Of course it didn't. The Government did.
This is where we are today.
It's the culmination of wonky circumstances, bad policy and total lies over how things are funded.
https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1575066754769821696?t=Ej62wdcrmJtnQ_fchccnhg&s=19
Total shite that taxes pay for anything.