MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
All the liabilities do not arise tomorrow. What you are stating is a gross misstating of the reality.
I’m sure that as plans go, it’s as cunning as a cunning fox who’s just been appointed professor of cunning at Oxford University
https://twitter.com/daily_express/status/1574515485781020672?s=21&t=EgtnooSCKm-Mgn_3RCe-_Q
All the liabilities do not arise tomorrow. What you are stating is a gross misstating of the reality.
I didn't suggest they did. But if they're increasing at 100bn a year, the model where current staff pay for retired staff is clearly unsustainable as the population curve passes retirement.
There was a piece on BBC news with kwasi walking and the interviewer trying to ask questions towards the end he looked down into the camera and his look was odd and slightly chilling.
Mind you perhaps he couldn't answer because walking and talking would be too much for him to cope with.
Got panicked by a banker friend of mine earlier in the year about all this and paid to get out of my current mortgage which ended next year. Managed to fix it for 10 years a couple of months ago. I would have never normally considered a fixed rate of that length but I would rather have the peace of mind with these clowns in charge
Most people don’t realise that public service pensions are simply paid for through taxation, there’s no sovereign wealth fund or investment vehicle – the reality being that their contributions are long spent and that it is today’s tax payers that are paying their pensions. The running narrative in the MSM that civil servants are ‘enemies of the people’ are are subverting Government when it is they that hold them to account is unsettling.
Not true, an oft repeated myth.
LGPS (and presumably many others) is funded by membership, it's not a final salary scheme, it's career average and paid for by employee contributions, (I pay 9%).
Please stop spreading shite like this because it's normalising the eventual Tory stripping of public servant pensions.
Yes, it's a good scheme, employer pays 20% but it's a future gamble as salaries are c30% lower than private sector in the field.
The idea that there is one single 'public service' is pervasive and couldn't be more wrong.
Has a budget ever had this kind of impact?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1574661433224089600?t=0TE7rLNANFQeuz3Y05XG0w&s=19
some thoughts from across the pond
It is this ongoing 'lack of credibility' that is most dangerous. Truss/Kwarteng have shown themselves to lack basic economic competence, which, coupled with an inability and unwillingness to take advice from people who do (eg sacking Tom Scholar), has properly spooked the markets.
The previous incarnation of our buccaneering Brexit government was not exactly dripping in obvious competence, but this lot have made their chosen path absolutely clear in previous statements (Britannia Unchained) and then immediately in policy choices.
Their aim is to radically shrink the state, regardless of the economic pain it causes for the majority of UK citizens. Part 2 (Where Kwasi heroically balances the books) will detail the austerity required to deal with the emergency they have manufactured.
We, the simple folk, have got it all wrong… it’s really Labour’s fault… (isn’t it always)…
https://twitter.com/mikeholden42/status/1574675552560087041?s=21
I dont think labour should enter the general election. Imagine having to deal with this. Best they sit this one out.
Apparently Sky are reporting that the Govt "Will deny that a meeting between Truss and Kwarteng was argumentative and descended into a shouting match"
20 days and already leaking like a sieve.
Lilico continuing to peddle fantasies; another with extensive links to 55 Tufton Street.
Saying '...obviously' to introduce a 100% flight of fantasy; clearly deluded.
How long before he's trotted out alongside minford as the genesis of this transformational fiscal event?
It's definitely transformational - but not in the way he thinks it is.
Excellent demolition of the govt fantasy policies on Jeremy Vine this morning (don't worry, Vine himself was not there)
https://twitter.com/richardjmurphy/status/1574754630613012482?s=46&t=EVPiqBQ9yaEojqoFNaxW8w
Am I missing something or is Liz keeping a very low profile ?
I would have hoped she would be out there telling us all not to worry, her policy will kick with results..... eventually
Am I missing something or is Liz keeping a very low profile ?
She's supposed to be in her honeymoon period, applauded and lprded not dealing questions like "Why has your chancellor tanked the pound and why was your Chief of Stall a tax avoiding shite ?"
Interest rates due to go up to 5.8% by may next year…wtaf.
Add in fuel costs Ill be literally 550 quid a month worse off by next year than I was 12 months ago.
Unfortunately this is what you get when you appoint folks who are ‘loyal’ rather than remotely competent into important jobs
I'm going to wake up in a minute, it'll be May 2016, and all this will be a bad dream.
tpbiker, think again; latest forecast us 6.1% by March.
tpbiker, think again; latest forecast us 6.1% by March.
Meh…I’ll be so financially crippled by then the extra 30 quid will probably not even register. I have a bloody good salary but by the time my outgoing a have gone out I’ll basically be left with enough money for food and that’s about it. I fail to see how people less well off than me will cope. Answer.. they won’t
Not that the absolutely jokers in charge will care about that, this rabble are ruining our country. I mean what on earth were they thinking with that budget. Mind boggling levels of ineptitude
I’ll basically be left with enough money for food and that’s about it
Or “the elite”, as we’ll be calling you by then. Especially if you dare to blame your worsening situation on these salt of the earth fellows running the country (yeah, I’m referring to whoever funds the likes of the IEA out of the goodness of their hearts, not the politicians that ask how high when they say jump… at least Crispin Odey has the guts to put his name on his fund companies, and openly declare and pay members of the cabinet… he’s small fry).
If interest rates hit anywhere near what they’re predicting, then those with lots of capital - let’s say a high earner who just got a big unexpected tax cut - will be able to snap up plenty of recently repossessed properties at auction for a song
Am I missing something or is Liz keeping a very low profile ?
She hasn’t been seen or uttered a word in public since her old shag’s mini-budget last week, where they sent the pound into freefall
Hats off to her… she’s even better at hiding than Boris
will be able to snap up plenty of recently repossessed properties at auction for a song
Absolutely
You’ll soon be paying as much to rent your own home off some rich xxxt who’s bought it off you at a knock down price
I don’t believe that all Tories are evil, shameless, greed scum, but this lot in charge certainly are.
IMF step in to warn basket case economy about mishandling their finances
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1574839751869435923?t=mrN9vnWLjOIv6S0SAuSYqQ&s=19
Whilst the LGPS is a funded scheme it's more of an exception with most public sector schemes like NHS, Fire, Police and Civil Service being unfunded and paid through tax like the State Pension.
Whilst the LGPS is a funded scheme it’s more of an exception
It has six million members.
'In my mind', 'I don't believe' ... can we have some evidence based contributions? Alternatively just roll over and that Kwasi Kwarteng will give you a soft pound.
Nhs pension fund is not unfunded. We pay fir it. Its just the government spent the billions we oay and anyway its in surplus. We pay in more than we take out.
If the money paid in since creation had been put aside then it would be the largest fund in the world. If you want to claim its paid from taxation then you have to aknowledge we pay 9% more tax than non nhs employees
The 100bn above is a total misrepresentation. That would mean every nhs employee gaining € 2000 pension per year if service. Mine was more like £ 250 annual pension oer year of service
Stop spouting tories lies
The NHS scheme is unfunded with any liabilities met by the exchequer.
Stop spouting shite.
Bollox. You are tbe one spouting shite. You can only pretend its unfunded because the government spent the money we out asude
Vile tiry lies and you have swallowed them arse
Whats happening to the contrbutions that we pay that is far more than paid out?
Its not our fault the government treats it as revenue rsther than putting it aside
Billions of pounds more has been paid in than paid out. Whers the interst gone? Spent by sccesdive governments on other things
Definitely unfunded.
No need to get angry TJ, we all get things wrong some times 👍
I am anggy because you are soouti g tiry lies.
Its only unfunded because the government spent the funds
Your attitude stinks and you have swallowed a.lie hook linebandbsinker
Clown
Its only unfunded because the government spent the funds
No, it's unfunded because it's not invested. You're getting needlessly angry.
I suggest you read a non Tory source
Now answer this. Where does the surplus go? We oay in more per year than is taken out
If all the pension contributions paid in had been set aside itvwoild be a huge sum far bigger than the liabilities
Awesome doubling down on your lack of understanding TJ, it's all Tory lies not plain facts 🤔
I suggest you read a non Tory source
I suggest you stop and have a think.
From the NHS website:
:
Funds from the scheme are not invested.It is an unfunded, contributory public service occupational pension scheme.
I am not getting needlessly angy.
You are spouting tory lies to give them cover to take away our oensiobs
Why was it not invested? And dont say spent on pensions because its not
How about answering some of the questions
There is a basic lack.of understanding from you
The government spent it. It could have been funded but our cintributions have been spent as givernmentbrevenue
Whete does the surplus go?
There is a basic lack.of understanding from you
Nope, the misunderstanding is all yours. You appear to have no idea how pensions work.
I understand full well. Its you that do not.
Year 1 of the nhs
What happened to the pension contributions?
Whete dies the millions a year surplus go?
Bit of a stretch to call them Tories; they're the libertarian ECG. Should all be put back on that bus.
I understand full well. Its you that do not.
I understand that your pension scheme is unfunded. I therefore understand it better than you do.
We have oaid enough.in that if it had been ivested it wlll would cover cliability many times over given interst on the investment
Givernment stole the fund then use that as an excuse ti cut iur oensions
Can we have that in English?
Ranso.
Its only unfunded by your defintion because governments spent the fund.
Its only unfunded by your defintion because governments spent the fund.
It's not my definition: it's what it is.
Underwritten by the exchequer means they get the surplus or cover the deficit. Simple.
Typing on a phone in a tent with fat fingers is tricky
Where does our contributions go?
@ransos. Rule 1, eh? It's fairly clear what TJ's saying. Even in his chosen medium of hieroglyphics.
There is no deficit. Its in surplus and has been ever year.
So you want to cut our pensions because the government spent the money wr putbin
Nice
They cover the cost of pensions in payment
Lolz @ stabiliser
Where does our contributions go?
To the government.
And year 1 when no pensions were paid?
The annual srplus?
But then again, I'm not sure as I'm a clown ant ItS aLL tORy liEZ
And year 1 when no pensions were paid?
The annual srplus?
I have no idea what this means. I also don't know why you keep talking about a surplus. Perhaps a review of employee vs employer contributions would be illuminating.
We pay in more each year than is taken out in pensions. Thats the surplus. Its been like that every year of the nhs.
How would you feel if yku paid into a pension and when you come to collect it you are told you are not getting what you paid for sirry. We spent the money.
Thats whats what you are giving cover to.
There is no separate fund because its been spent
We pay in more each year than is taken out in pensions
Your contributions are vastly outweighed by your employer's contributions.
There is no separate fund because its been spent
There's no fund because it's unfunded. It isn't hard to understand.
Additionally in the early days of the NHS there was no contribution. Pension contributions are a relatively recent thing, starting in the 70s or 80s.
TJ you do realise that the guaranteed and index linked pension you get is worth significantly more than the contributions you paid in (even with high levels of growth)?..... thought not.
Your contributions are vastly outweighed by your employer’s contributions.
How's that different from any funded pension?
How’s that different from any funded pension?
Where did I argue that it is? The point is that for the NHS, it's government spending whether it's employer contributions or the exchequer covering a deficit.
Civil service pension is not invested either - it would be illegal if it was a private scheme..
It'd be government spending if they were paying it into a fund
Calm down, calm down! This thread is getting side-tracked.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think TJ thinks the contributions are ring-fenced (which I thought they were as well) whereas they are treated just as part of a (not large enough) single pot...
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think TJ thinks the contributions are ring-fenced (which I thought they were as well) whereas they are treated just as part of a (not large enough) single pot…
He seems to think that the government is stealing his pension. In fact, the government is paying for most of it.
Employee contributions cover the scheme liabilities, the Treasury covers the rest. Its unbelievably simple to grasp.
How’s that different from any funded pension?
Because in most pensions the employee pays more or a similar amount to the employee. Easy to forget that employers pension contributions are part of your overall salary package.
I get why TJ is angry, however it is the way the NHS and many other pension schemes are funded, it's wrong but to argue it's a Tory scam ignores the years Labour were in power and failed to address this. It's a government scam however at some point it may become a government liability if they keep driving down the number of NHS employees (paying in) vs the numbers retiring early due ironically to ill health.
Anyway… IMF have had their say on this insane “mini” budget…
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/imf-kwarteng-truss-tax-cuts-b2176757.html
IMF urges Kwarteng and Truss to rethink tax cuts in rare intervention
Mini-Budget measures will likely increase inequality, says global lender
thestabiliser how is it different?? Well my private pension is funded entirely by me (plus tax relief). My workplace pension is 5% by me 3% by my employer.
NHS pension scheme (plus I imagine Civil Service and Teachers pensions are similar) you’re looking at around 20% of your salary, most of which is funded by your employer - and therefore funded by the government.
The reason why my brother in law (doctor) goes on expensive holidays all the time - he earns a very good salary and also doesn’t need to throw half of his disposable income into a private pension because he has a guaranteed pension to come.
whilst I think the budget seems crazy I can't see why it's all of sudden being blamed for crashing the pound and needing emergency rate rises
conspiracy theory is *someone* out there playing the markets and shorting the pound to collapse the economy....?
what with mystery accidents happening to pipelines surely its not as daft as it sounds