[Closed] 'Migrant men banned from German swimming pool'

It's fairly possible you are some type of bigot

We are all prejudice in one way or another. It's just a matter of scale.

A bit like Autism.

If thinking that the majority of those young men from North African Muslim countries will have bigoted views on women and their role and status, makes me a bigot. Then I must be a bigot.

I'd call you a realist, gobuchul. From my "enlightened", "humanist", "secular" background and having read too much by Vian, Sartre, Camus and de Beauvoir.

Edukator - Troll

I'd call you a realist, gobuchul. From my "enlightened", "humanist", "secular" background and having read too much by, Vian, Satre, Camus and de Beavoir.

Me! Me! Me! Please! How about me?

What would you call me? Seriously.

Junkyard - lazarus
FWIW I am not english.

Three North African immigrants arrested for stoning in Dortmund:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/16/t/

A bit like Autism

It's not even a tiny bit like Autism.

Sometimes I'd love to be able to take some STW members for a guided tour of some places in France and Germany, with their wife/sister/mother/daughter dressed in their holiday best being sent out 100m in front. North Africa too.

On that happy thought, goodnight all.

It's not even a tiny bit like Autism.

The traits of being prejudice and the traits of Autism are completely different.

However all of those "score" somewhere on the Autism scale.

In the same way we are all bigots just to a different extent.

Being prejudice doesn't always mean you are always wrong.

e.g. I am currently working in Houston, Tx, I tend to think that the majority of the 'mericans that I work with will all carry guns, vote right wing, drive pick ups, hate hybrid cars and frequently make casually racist remarks. I wouldn't be right 100% of the time to the description probably fits a good 75%.

I walked around a village market in SW France with a black friend while we were on holidays. It was great fun looking at the photos of geese being force-fed through funnels in an effort to persuade us to buy foie-gras. What was slightly more disconcerting was the blatantly hostile stares to which my friend and I were subjected (don't know what I'd done - maybe just consorting with a black person was enough). To be fair, he took it in his stride - he'd grown up in Hackney being stopped and searched through most of his teenage life. Large swathes of the country are pretty openly racist - it's no wonder the FN does so well there. If I wanted to live a more openly racist life, and to be honest, there are times when I'd like to, because this country is just PC gone mad these days, I'd improve my conversational French and move there.

In the same way we are all bigots just to a different extent.

Yes, of course. Only, I know plenty of people who aren't. I'm sure they're the only ones though. So apart from them, yes, everybody is a bigot. Apart from the ones I know who aren't. I guess they're the only ones.

It's the kind of statement bigots make when they need to justify bigotry. Is that your intent?

It's the kind of statement bigots make when they need to justify bigotry. Is that your intent?

I have already admitted I'm bigoted.

We all are.

Are you saying you never prejudge people? We all do. It's an animal instinct. It was necessary for survival.

Have you defied evolution?

We all are.

When I'm a little unsure of myself, I find that repeating the same thing over and over again restores my self-belief.

Sometimes I'd love to be able to take some STW members for a guided tour of some places in France and Germany, with their wife/sister/mother/daughter dressed in their holiday best being sent out 100m in front. North Africa too.

You do realise you aren't the only person from England to have made it across the Channel don't you 🙄

You live in France I believe (pretty sure you've mentioned that a few thousand times) and As I mentioned earlier I've lived all over Europe, and have spent a bit of time in North Africa.

Oddly enough, my experience hasn't left unable to differentiate between bigotry and "realism"

Ymmv.

When I'm a little unsure of myself, I find that repeating the same thing over and over again restores my self-belief.

So you don't prejudge ANYONE? That is very strange behaviour. I am not even sure how that would work in real life.

I wrote earlier that I think that the majority of the young men from the North African Islamic countries, who are in the refugee centre, in the news item about the swimming pool ban, would hold certain views about the role and status of women, particularly ones who dressed and behaved in a certain way.

I worked with a lot of ****stani's, not UK nationals but guys that lived in ****stan. The majority, 99%, were very decent, honest people. They had a lot of attributes, however, feminism certainly wasn't one of them.

I also made a statement about white Texans and my prejudice from dealing with them.

Does that make me a bigot? A racist?

bigoted
?
adjective
obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people's beliefs and practices

We really are not all like this. I am not sure we were ever evolutionary compelled to be such.

Bigotry and "pre judging" or reading a scenario are not the same things

Bigotry and "pre judging" or reading a scenario are not the same things

They basically are. It's just at what level.

I would just like to state that from JY definition of bigotry I don't consider myself a bigot. I still stand by my prejudiced opinions that I stated earlier.

deadlydarcy - Member
It's the kind of statement bigots make when they need to justify bigotry. Is that your intent?

Is that simple? Ya? 😆

Junkyard - lazarus

bigoted
?
adjective
obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people's beliefs and practices

We really are not all like this. I am not sure we were ever evolutionary compelled to be such.

Bigotry and "pre judging" or reading a scenario are not the same things

Ya, ya, ya ... very well with all those responses etc ...

But you still have not answered my question to you.

What's up? 🙄

DrJ, there is no right to enter or live in a country of your choice, so there is no breach of CERD in applying a nationality condition to restrict this.

Do currently un-processed refugees have all the same rights as citizens?

Calling someone a racist or bigot is an excellent way of shutting down a debate about a difficult topic. The accusation however does not prove the fact. In this case the ban seems justified as a temporary measure until a long term solution can be found. Anyone who has spent any length of time in a strictly Islamic country would,at least, be aware that attitudes in many young males are very inconsistent with those here in the west, to deny this is simply foolish. Just stating that fact is enough to be called racist or bigoted in many circles it seems. All ideas and beliefs have equal standing is the view put forward, I am afraid to say they simply don't, there is a scale of human well being that many Islamic beliefs and customs support less well than other systems. Unfortunately sometimes the actions of the few do inconvenience the many, as has happened here. Shouting racism from the sidelines seems at best counter productive and at worst a deliberately inflammatory thing to do.

Anyone who has spent any length of time in a strictly Islamic country would,at least, be aware that attitudes in many young males are very inconsistent with those here in the west, to deny this is simply foolish.

Lucky then, that nobody has done that eh ?

Just stating that fact is enough to be called racist or bigoted in many circles it seems

Gobuchul seemed to be enjoying calling himself a bigot (until a definition of what it meant was posted)

Three North African immigrants arrested for stoning in Dortmund:

The tension in Germany is extremely high but Frau Merkel is trying to sweep it under a very very large carpet whilst her Finance minister suggests citizens throughout the EU should pay for her idiocy with higher fuel taxes.

there are "inconvenient news items" from both sides of the fence.

Four suspected neo-Nazis to stand trial in Germany on charges of planning nail bomb terror attacks against mosques and refugee shelters

Was there restrictions put on all white German males due to the actions of this minority ?

Or did they just arrest the actual people involved and leave everyone else alone ?

Actually that isn't inconveninet at all, it shows the difficulties of managing a huge influx of people from a different culture in a short period of time. Germany is a country where Pergida have held frequent rallies regularly attracting 10's of thousands of people. Encouraging a million asylum seekers into an already somewhat unstable environment was very naive. Frau Merkel assumed her "who arrive legally" qualifier would control the numbers, she was very wrong.

Part of the nail bomb plot was to bomb Mosques, unless the refugees have been very busy since they arrived, then it was just Muslims they were going to be attacking, refugees or not.

Either way, Merkel's policies are not really relevant to this particular debate.

The situation is what it is.

We are discussing whether it's ok to ban all male refugees from certain places because of the actions of a few.

Was there restrictions put on all white German males due to the actions of this minority ?

Yes, there are huge restrictions on all 'white German males' due to the actions of neo-nazis, Strafgesetzbuch 86a outlaws all sorts of things - flags, uniforms, books, greetings, traditional folk songs etc.

How do I unsubscribe?

Yes, there are huge restrictions on all 'white German males'

No, those laws apply to everyone.

Strafgesetzbuch 86a outlaws all sorts of things - flags, uniforms, books, greetings, traditional folk songs etc.

That's a restriction on anyone living in Germany isn't it?

EDIT: Fraction too slow.

precicely - the prohibition restricts freedom due to the actions of a minority, it isn't limited to "actual people involved and leave everyone else alone ?"

precicely - the prohibition restricts freedom due to the actions of a minority, it isn't limited to "actual people involved and leave everyone else alone ?"

So unless they make swimming illegal for everyone in Germany, it's not the same at all then ?

Anyway, the question was...

Was there restrictions put on all white German males due to the actions of [B]this minority[/b] ?
Or did they just arrest the actual people involved and leave everyone else alone ?

In relation to a specific event, the planning at terror attacks on asylum seekers and mosques.

Was there any blanket restrictions put in place, or did they do what normally happens, and deal with the suspects and leave everyone else alone.

86a was in place a long time before this happened.

but it's not a specific event is it?

It's definitely not isolated.
[url= http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/634815/Cologne-attacks-fury-migrant-sex-cover-up-refugee-event-groping-Germany ]groping schoolgirls.[/url]
There is a definite problem among the male refugees, a minority but a large minority and if stopping them from using the pool makes it safer for the female population of the town, so be it. If there problems have gone from potential decapitation from Isis to not being allowed to do breaststroke I think they have still a lot to be grateful for.

but it's not a specific event is it?

Alleged planning of nail bomb terror attacks = arrest 4 people, no other action taken against people not involved.

Alleged harassment in swimming pool = ban all asylum seekers from public swimming pool.

Both specific events, handled entirely differently.

It's definitely not isolated.

Neither are attacks on Muslims from far right nutters?

hora - Member
How do I unsubscribe?

no other action taken against people not involved.

but you accept there [b]has[/b] been decades of action taken against right wing & neo-nazi groups, restrictions on their freedom of speech and freedom of expression, repeated jailings of their leaders and criminalisation of non violent protest. so yes, action [b]has[/b] been taken against people not involved.

Perhaps the most accurate words on this issue recently:

Positions are momentarily rather rigid in Europe, creating a dangerous situation for the future of the European Union, especially as the debate on immigration and refugees is conducted primarily by politicians on an emotional level, and much less by experts in a rational, fact-based manner.

The hyperbole and outright nonsense spouted on refugees and migrants (different things!) is truly scary.

You guys are so predictable. Any time a German government starts segregating races you bring up the Nazis. It's such a cliche and frankly just puts your own prejudices on display.

There will definitely be tough times ahead for Germany.
More and more sex attacks and more reprisals.

[url= http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/633850/Syrian-Emerge-attacks-Germany-Cologne-NYE-Merkel?_ga=1.261375108.886168946.1424135806 ]girl attacked at pool.[/url]

but you accept there has been decades of action taken against right wing & neo-nazi groups, restrictions on their freedom of speech and freedom of expression, repeated jailings of their leaders and criminalisation of non violent protest. so yes, action has been taken against people not involved.

How were the people not involved effected by the banning of various bits nazi symbolism and suchlike?

What were the leaders jailed for ? How did that effect people who weren't involved ?

It really is difficult here in Germany and as I see it the banning is an 'emergency' measure to diffuse an increasingly tense situation between the refugees and Germans. The local people want the state seen to be doing something and even the most liberal Germans are having their beliefs tested because of the extreme nature of the situation. Where I live in Leipzig which is traditionally pretty left wing the PEGIDA/LEGIDA demonstrations have been happening every Monday for a year. In the last few weeks there have been street battles between Police, neo nazis and left wing extremists. This has polarized opinion and the regular German sees the refugees as the cause of all this unrest.

i find it funny that if you say "i don't like all these refugees coming here at once" you are labelled rascist....
the GF's old man is from Iran and he doesn't like the fact that such lrge numbers have been accepted so quickly. his German missus on the other hand thinks everyone is welcome.... 😕

the GF was in Iran for several months a few years ago. wasn't allowed out on her own. always had to wear a headscarf (was berated several times by random men in the street for showing too much hair), wasn't allowed to surf the net in an internet cafe, wasn't allowed to ride a bike, had to travel at the rear of the bus (more women on board thatn men, but all the women were crammed into the rear 1/3 and forced to stand), had to use a separate carriage to the men on the train....

i very much doubt that the Iranian way of life is much different from that in Syria, Afghanistan (infact, i'm told by the GF's father that it is very similar) or many other Arab countries.

it is fair to say that i am not "all for" the numbers of mainly male refugees being given asylum.

and after the assault last week in Munich, i'm happy that certain groups may be stopped from entering the swimming pool. especially as the GF goes to swim once a week.

f-knows what would happen if some of these men found their way into the sauna area.... 🙂

on't like all these refugees coming here at once" you are labelled rascist

By who ?

Roter Stern & Folks,

With the German drone like mentality I foresee Germany having restless nights for sometime. Bear in mind, they have always been programmed for a steady pace of life without too much changes but the situation has truly play into SISI hands now ... another society "destabilise" or soon to be ...

SISI knows that your compassion is also your weakness so push hard for that knowing that no society in the world is truly uniform/united. Easier to use spark to light the fire whatever ...

This could also be a stepping stone for further destabilisation of Europe from inside of Europe via Germany.

[u]That stooopid woman Angela Merkel[/u] being [b][u]a spinster lacks maternal instinct[/u][/b] to really understand the true nature of society and family. Being a spinster her [b][u]mood[/u][/b] can [b][u]swing[/u][/b] from one extreme to another ... (notice her sudden welcome policy by comparison with the news that she once told a little girl that her family would have to go home?) hence old ladies in the far east asked why was that woman in charged? Why people elected her etc? Because old ladies know how a lady feels. They have been there done that. I explained to them in my own ways ... not sure whether they agreed with me but they certainly think having spinster as a leader is not good.

The question now is that if that group of people are moved to other EU nations the same problem will start and further problems will be created in EU.

The best approach now is to contain the situation in Germany to avoid letting it spreading further for damage limitation. i.e. by applying something a bit like castle siege to refugees. No movement without permit.

Again ... I see them coming and I told you so. 😯

i find it funny that if you say "i don't like all these refugees coming here at once" you are labelled rascist

Nah its once they are here and you dont want to allow them the same freedoms as other citizens that you stray into the area of racism.

Who would have thought that racism could be a force for good.

chewkw - Member

Junkyard - lazarus
FWIW I am not english.

In the meantime ... Junkyard you have not answered my question yet ... What are you?

What's up Junkyard? Have you considered your answer yet? 😛

Junkyard - lazarus
Nah its once they are here and you dont want to allow them the same freedoms as other citizens that you stray into the area of racism.

Freedoms? You mean they have no freedoms? Really? 😯

How do you compare that to where they were previously? 🙄

See you are absolutely wrong again. I mean you have not even attempted to think logically when you come with that answer have you? There are so many wrongs on that answer it's hard to find a starting point. Poor effort that. 😛

In the meantime you need to answer my previous question above ... 😆