Nah its once they are here and you dont want to allow them the same freedoms as other citizens that you stray into the area of racism.
Are they in fact citizens? Do they have the same rights? Can they sign up to university and get a hip replacement? Can they work, and live where they like?
Rather sexist comments about spinsters ^^
A potentially interesting comparison from the US town I lived in. They had a very nice communal town pool setup, lane pool, kids pools etc. In fact not dis-similar to the very nice German town facilities I have used when on holiday there (have done 3 or 4 family holidays in Germany with friends in the military). You could only use it with a town residents card which you applied for based on residency. A similar system in Germany would work, asylum seekers are not resident until their application has been formally accepted.
Rather sexist comments about spinsters ^^
Maybe, but I found it more ageist, marital satusist and lack of childrenist.
Maybe, but I found it more ageist, marital satusist and lack of childrenist.
I found it just bloody stupid. Like usual.
I found it just bloody stupid. Like usual.
😀
You could only use it with a town residents card which you applied for based on residency. A similar system in Germany would work, asylum seekers are not resident until their application has been formally accepted.
Not necessarily. Someone tried this before in France and got into some bother. Shame because it seemed a sensible solution to the problem.
Are they in fact citizens? Do they have the same rights?
I thought of some of them afterwards[before your post] so its a fair point. . In the UK its only work that differs, anyone has to reside here for 3 years to access education funding - in the main there are exceptions like English and some others.
I think the broader point is once you start having public areas that you dont allow refugees to go then you are into the realms of racism.
Discussions regarding immigration and numbers extra are not inherently racist though some of the views will be,
I think the broader point is once you start having public areas that you dont allow refugees to go then you are into the realms of racism.
Well maybe, but it seems like a glass half full/half empty thing. They could set up camps in the middle of nowhere and oblige people to stay there while their case is processed. Instead they give the refugees as much freedom as possible, which some of them promptly abuse.
vickypea - Member
Rather sexist comments about spinsters ^^
That word and the way a woman feels was explained to me by old women or ladies in the far east ... they laughed at me when I tried to describe stooopid Angela Merkel.
I mean they corrected my English! 😆
Oh ya they are the matriarchs of their own families.
I will stick to that word unless you can come up with alternative for [u]a single old woman who has never been married.[/u]
edit:
DrJ - Member
I found it just bloody stupid. Like usual.
What Dr are you in again? 😆
Instead they give the [s]refugees [/s]people as much freedom as possible, which some of them promptly abuse.
Equally true of any people you choose to pick even cyclist in the countryside
It is of course a balancing act as are most things. Collective punishment is not helpful.
As previously noted, refugees don't have the same rights as citizens.
Junkyard & DrJ ... you two really need to answer my questions. Can't go on like this you know. The world would collapse! 😛
[b]To Junkyard:
Q1. you said you were Not English so what are you? [/b]
You could have used British but you did not instead you have distinguished yourself as Not English.
[b]Q2: Now, that has intrigued me as I want to know why you segregate yourself?[/b]
-----------------------
[b]To DrJ:
Q1. You have 'Dr' as title so I want to know what Dr are you?
Q2. Do you have PhD in science or social science? [/b]
Simple answers from both will do ... 
What percentage of the immigrant users of the pool were causing the problem. If there was a high number of them using the pool with only a few causing a problem I might take junkies view. But if the majority of the the migrant users were causing a problem I can understand the pool taking the action it has untill it can come up with a better plan.
It is not Germany banning all immigrants from all pools, it is a pool banning a group of people from an immigration center who are causing a problem untill the can come up with a better solution.
If that is racist then so be it.
Integration takes education, forget that multicultural shit.
I think Chewkw will explode if Junkyard doesn't answer his question 😛
vickypea - Member
I think Chewkw will explode if Junkyard doesn't answer his question
Ya, correct! 😛 I shall shite myself in me pants! 😆
Coz someone is hiding something you know gut feeling like ... something is not right about someone.
vickypea - Member
I think Chewkw will explode if Junkyard doesn't answer his question
[img]
[/img]Glad I won't have to clean up the mess afterwards!
At the holiday camp that is near my mum's holiday bungalow they had a large party of muslims stay.
The windows were blacked out so that no one could see in and obviously men were banned from swimming at the same time as the ladies.
No one could possibly object to ladies only swimming classes in Germany.
Education about German values and enforcement of the law is what's needed - Germany is a rich country, they have the resources to do it properly.
Blanket bans are racist - the levels of acceptance of racism we see here now on the forum and in society in general after decades of improvement is shocking. If individual people refuse to accept German values then I see no problem with not granting citizenship. Despite numerous accusations I don't see any of the 'hand-wringers' arguing there are no issues with integrating large numbers of (in particular) young men from very different societies into Europe. Amazingly enough it's possible to recognise that but not support racist policies.
And re an earlier argument - I would say people are instinctively inclined to prejudice against people they see as 'other' to varying degrees but this is just an example of the irrational monkey brain instinct that is no longer useful now that we have the ability to think/behave rationally. Just accepting it as something you are going to allow to affect your life is like accepting that you haven't really evolved into a human being. 😉
CountZero - Member
vickypea - Member
I think Chewkw will explode if Junkyard doesn't answer his question
[img]
Glad I won't have to clean up the mess afterwards!
Why youuuu! I said shat me pants! Stone him for using illegal emotion-con ... trying to outdo me ...
[img] 
[/img]
grum - Member
... now that we have the ability to think/behave rationally.
In the typical spirit of STW ... What is rationality? 😛
Just accepting it as something you are going to allow to affect your life is like accepting that you haven't really evolved into a human being.
Have we evolved? When? I thought we have devolved ... Yes?
Oh and Edukator trying to compare himself as an English person in France (yes, we know you live in France) to a Syrian refugee in Germany. Really?!
[i]Blanket bans are racist[/i]
True but as I said earlier it was a necessary measure. Right or wrong the situation could quickly escalate into vigilante groups taking the law into their own hands (which is what is happening in other parts of Germany with regular burning of buildings ear marked for refugees). The mood here really is on a knife edge.
grum - Member
Oh and Edukator trying to compare himself as an English person in France (yes, we know you live in France) to a Syrian refugee in Germany. Really?!
Or someone who advocates integration/multiculturalism/EU etc who lived in the UK but then said "I am Not English" ... tut! tut! 😛
Which is worst? The person who wants to build or is building an "English castle" in France or a person who is insincere about own identity?
Roter Stern - Member
The mood here really is on a knife edge.
It will explode because the shock to the system is too much to handle. 😮
Education about German values and enforcement of the law is what's needed
I'll ask again, how are you going to educate them? You need to undo 20+ years of education. I'm not saying it's impossible but I would suggest it's very difficult.
I would say people are instinctively inclined to prejudice against people they see as 'other' to varying degrees but this is just an example of the irrational monkey brain instinct that is no longer useful now that we have the ability to think/behave rationally. Just accepting it as something you are going to allow to affect your life is like accepting that you haven't really evolved into a human being.
What?
We all prejudge and make assumptions on how people walk, talk, dress, what bike they ride, what car they drive, the house they live in, what sport they watch etc.
Unless of course you have reached some level of enlightenment that puts you above that? 🙄
We all prejudge and make assumptions on how people walk, talk, dress, what bike they ride, what car they drive, the house they live in, what sport they watch etc.
Imagine how time consuming it would be if we didn't - instead of all the little rules and shortcuts we've made, instead evaluating every situation from first principles - inefficient and dangerous.
Blanket bans are racist - the levels of acceptance of racism we see here now on the forum and in society in general after decades of improvement is shocking
They have recognised there is a problem, they have implemented a tempory plan to try and safeguard thier female patrons from that problem untill they can find a better way. They are not discriminating based on unfounded racists beliefs.
when I read this story I am not thinking oh my god what a bunch of racists, I am thinking what a bunch of sex pests.
Maybe they should have closed the pool then the story would be pool closed due to immigrants harassing female swimmers.
Then we could stop arguing about racism and address the actual problem here.
gobuchul - Member
Education about German values and enforcement of the law is what's needed
I'll ask again, how are you going to educate them? You need to undo 20+ years of education. I'm not saying it's impossible but I would suggest it's very difficult.
After five generations if you are lucky. In the 5th generation majority will only speak German but will retain a lot of their own traditional culture and belief especially religion.
Their belief will be much stronger than the locals because as migrants they will have a strong sense to preserve their way of life.
😯
We all prejudge and make assumptions on how people walk, talk, dress, what bike they ride, what car they drive, the house they live in, what sport they watch etc.Unless of course you have reached some level of enlightenment that puts you above that?
Yes of course we do and no I'm not above it but nor do I try and pretend that my instincts are always correct or helpful. Sometimes they are but it's useful to question them, often. Otherwise you are going to find your worldvîew massively influenced by things like confirmation bias rather than reality.
I'll ask again, how are you going to educate them? You need to undo 20+ years of education. I'm not saying it's impossible but I would suggest it's very difficult
Yes it will be difficult, lets get on with it then and not do things that are likely to make them feel more alienated from their new home and make their views more entrenched.
Haven't we witnessed all too well the results of not takng action for fear of being called racist?.
No. HTH.
A blanket ban does seem racist, and somewhat unhelpful- maybe an over-reaction after the police apparently didn't act in Cologne at New Year? But after 6 pages of debate, does anyone here actually know the facts?
Was it a couple of men being a bit annoying by trying to chat up women at the pool on a couple of occasions, or was it a larger group, being more intimidating on a regular basis? Were they asked to stop but continued to do it? Are all migrants/asylum seekers banned from that pool or is it a specific group?
A potentially interesting comparison from the US town I lived in. They had a very nice communal town pool setup, lane pool, kids pools etc. In fact not dis-similar to the very nice German town facilities I have used when on holiday there (have done 3 or 4 family holidays in Germany with friends in the military). You could only use it with a town residents card
It's entirely fitting that you bring up that example, because that system developed as a way of stopping black city kids from swimming in white suburban pools during the white flight period.
grum - Member
Yes it will be difficult, lets get on with it then and not do things that are likely to make them feel more alienated from [b]their new home [/b]and make their views more entrenched.
It is [b][u]Not[/u] [/b]their home.
It is [u]a temporary place of refuge[/u] protecting them from their own more fanatical belief ...
Very few first generation migrant will call a new place their "home". [b]
House - Yes.
Home - No.[/b]
[url= http://news.yahoo.com/german-town-bans-male-asylum-seekers-public-pools-152516727.html ]more info[/url]
Does seem like a small number of complaints. Does not say over what time frame. But maybe there was only a few migrant users and thy wanted to stop something before it started.
In fact not dis-similar to the very nice German town facilities I have used...
#jambafact
Fact: I have been on holidays in Germany also and used some of these town facilities. They're bloody amazing for publicly funded open spaces. As non town-residents and foreigners, we were more than welcome to use the facilities. We paid a few € more than locals (who paid a yearly fee and then had a card that entitled them to free or reduced price entry. And even then I walked in after paying asking mrs dd, "Surely they undercharged us didn't they?" They were not exclusively for residents only.
We all prejudge and make assumptions on how people walk, talk, dress, what bike they ride, what car they drive, the house they live in, what sport they watch etc.
What if i prejudge that all black people are lazy criminals?
Of course we all pre judge the problem i s when we do it erroneously to an entire race fr class of people. It will be inherently inaccurate and unfair,
if for example I cross the road because i see a gang if white lads drinking special brew with their aggressive digs then not racist
If i cross the road because i see a gang of black kids and they are all gangsters with knifes then that is racist
I am not sure why you need it explaining to you that there is a point where pre judging become prejudice/racism. you seem to be arguing that because we all re judge any decision reached is acceptable. It is not.
I don't understand the examples above. Are you saying that if you saw a group of male gangsters with knives in the street it would be racist if you avoided walking past them - if they were black?
Junkyard - lazarus
Hello!
Looks like another "Junkyard" is typing/arguing now ...
Will the real Junkyard please stand up!
Please stand up!
😛
If i cross the road because i see a gang of black kids and they are all gangsters with knifes then that is racist
Is it ? seems like perfectly reasonable self preservation to me, if getting stabbed is a price you are prepared to pay to avoid possible accusations of being a racist then good for you but surely you cannot reasonably expect others to follow your rather brave stance against discrimination towards knife wielding black gangsters.
Racist!!!
we all pre judge any decision reached is acceptable. It is not.
Never said that.
If i cross the road because i see a gang of black kids and they are all gangsters with knifes then that is racist
Depends on the context.
Where? Inner city or leafy Sussex Downs Village?
When? What time of day?
Are you a possible target?
Carrying valuables?
Wearing football colours?
What colour skin do you have?
Personally I would avoid areas with high crime rates anyway and gangs of "kids" of any colour.
Yeah, but you are still stereotyping groups of young black men as being more likely to be involved in gang violence, crime and carrying knives.
The fact that this might actually be borne out by the statistics is an unfortunate irrelevance.
Junkyard,What if I am black man and cross the road when I see a group of black youths because I think the may do me something. Am I racist?
Or someone who advocates integration/multiculturalism/EU etc who lived in the UK but then said "I am Not English" ... tut! tut!
I love how Chewy thinks he's caught Junkyard out in some of scandalous lie 😆
By the way, I'm not English either !!!!
