[Closed] Michael Phelps - 19 gold medals - Greatest Olympian?

[quote=ebygomm ]You missed Lauryn Williams - Athletics & Bobsleigh

She didn't win gold in bobsleigh - my criteria was gold in different sports. A long list I linked to of medallists in different sports. Though athletics and bobsleigh is marginal for being completely different anyway.

The greatness of a man isn't measured in the medals around his neck.
There are lots of stories of triumph over adversity.
Jesse Owens, segregated in his own country as a second class citizen, winning four golds as an African-American at the Berlin-Nazi-Games is pretty high up there as greatest Olympians go.

Who's going to edit the title then? And I'm guessing even more are on the cards.

Correct answer is yes, you lot only dispute it as he's not 'British'. The likes of Daley Thompson (or other top decathalonisters) would be a better athletes, but that's not the question. Most medals in most events. Most WRs set in Olympic competition and over 4 games. Can't argue with the stats.

As an aside, weird how Lance get a bit of stick in this thread, but Carl Lewis gets an honourable mention. Is it only cycling drug cheats we don't like? Bolt too, he'll be found out some day.

It's increasingly hard to argue that he is not right up there. Not just the medal quantity but the longevity too. Sure it highlights that olympic sports are not equal in terms of medal chances and I would also argue that makes some of the rarer ones (i.e. triathlon with one male and one female gold available every 4 years) should be valued higher than those from the 'ten-a-penny' sports.

But, and its a big but for me - I'm not sure he is a very nice person. Like a lot of incredibly successful athletes his is very driven to the extent he's not necessarily an easy person to be around and he would not be on many peoples fantasy diner party guest list. He has a reputation for being an arse. Also, to be caught drink driving twice before you are 30 indicates a pretty crappy attitude to the welfare of others and a selfish streak a mile wide.

So for me he's on the great olympian, crappy human being list.

I'd have a beer with him to discuss his medals and how much work he put in to get them

[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_Olympic_gold_medalists_at_a_single_Games ]List of multiple Olympic gold medalists at a single Games[/url]

Top of the list is dominated by swimmers and gymnastics. There's a cyclist with 4 golds and 1 bronze from 1904 Olympics 🙂

I'd have a beer with him to discuss his medals and how much work he put in to get them

He wouldn't have one with you though, because he's [s]washing his hair[/s] an arse.

[quote=Euro ]Correct answer is yes, you lot only dispute it as he's not 'British'.

I dispute it because of the number of potential medals available to him compared to other sports, nothing to do with his nationality - I'm certainly not suggesting Daley Thompson, he didn't have the longevity.

Most medals in most events. Most WRs set in Olympic competition and over 4 games. Can't argue with the stats.

Of course you can when the stats are distorted depending on what sport you do. Let's throw out (DYSWIDT?) Al Oerter who won every event available to him over 4 Olympiads, or can I suggest Sir Steve without you accusing me of nationalistic bias?

Al Oerter was Discus only. If he won Hammer or Javelin too then then maybe...

Redgrave probably has as much opportunity to win as many golds as Phelps if you consider Coxed/Coxless + Pairs/Fours etc. He only got five 😛 . All imo of course.

Correct answer is yes, you lot only dispute it as he's not 'British'.

Indeed, complete nonsense! No one is disputing he is probably the greatest swimmer of all time, but take out relays, non freestyle and stick with the core distances....and how many has he won?

Ive just checked and the answer is ......wait for it........ONE!

200m freestyle at the 2008 games.

but take out relays, non freestyle and stick with the core distances....and how many has he won?

Don't forget to omit medals won in races held on days with an 'A' in them and when the planets orbit the Sun.

What an utterly pointless thing to say: The fact is he's won pretty much everything he's entered. You can't do better than that.

Is he the greatest ever Olympian? He's certainly one of them, but it's question there isn't a single answer to. There's no doubt he's the greatest ever swimmer.

Also pretty dumb as he's a butterfly specialist 🙂

Ive just checked and the answer is ......wait for it........ONE!

200m freestyle at the 2008 games.

Slightly disingenuous. He has won individual golds in freestyle (1), butterfly (6) [b]but also IM (5) [/b]as well as the raft of relay golds.

Also pretty dumb as he's a butterfly specialist

But thats the whole point! It should be about who can swim the fastest over the various distances, rather than who can swim the most ridiculous stroke ever invented faster than any other (mostly disinterested in butterfly) swimmer.

Hence the comments about hopping around the running track!

It's not even a debate. He is. The purpose of the Olympics is to win medals full stop. He's won more than anyone so that makes him the greatest Olympian. Is he the worlds greatest athlete? that might be up for debate, but swimming is an f-ing tough sport easily as hard to get to the top of as any other sport you care to mention - and to cross disciplines makes his achievements more impressive. I competed into my early 20's and I was swimming a couple of hours 5 day's a week and competing most weekends and getting nowhere. A top swimmer will easily be putting as much effort in training as any runner, swimmer, archer, sailor or other sport you care to mention. These days all sports require you to work full time at it to get to the top.

A top swimmer will easily be putting as much effort in training as any runner, swimmer, archer, sailor or other sport you care to mention. These days all sports require you to work full time at it to get to the top.

You're absolutely right...and the comment about Olympians and Athletes is a good one, but my point is about pure natural talent that every person on the planet does at various times in their lives....running! You quickly find out if you're any good at it and then, if you are you have to work as hard as anyone to achieve your potential. Swimming is similar, but only on the basis of speed, so can only be judged on freestyle.

All IMHO of course! 8)

[quote=wobbliscott ]A top swimmer will easily be putting as much effort in training as any runner, swimmer, archer, sailor or other sport you care to mention. These days all sports require you to work full time at it to get to the top.

Of course - and if you're putting all that effort in and you're a sailor you only get one chance at a gold medal each games.

It also helps that swimming is a low impact activity, meaning recovery is quicker, allowing for greater repetition.

These are all reasons why you can't say Phelps is the greatest Olympian, just one of them.

The Olympics would be very short going on which events some people think are legitimate.

Presumably jumping far, jumping far with a bit of hopping and skipping, jumping high and jumping high with a pole would be replaced by one jumping event. Discus,javelin,shotput and hammer replaced by one throwing event. No hurdles or steeplechase as that's just random obstacles included, nothing with any sort of subjective measurement, e.g. diving/gymnastics...

Or very long, with everything matching swimming and gymnastics?

I wonder if he reads this forum...?

http://inrng.com/2016/08/if-cycling-was-swimming/

I'm gonna change my mind on this one now after last night (not that I was completely against the idea before). Phelps now sits right at the top of [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_Olympic_gold_medalists_in_one_event ]this list[/url] alongside others who get mentioned for their performances at the Olympics - along with a couple of other entries in that list. In a couple of days he has a chance to go top of that list twice.

Ole Einar Bjørndalen would have to come close for me, a true phenomenon of his sport

I'm a fan of Bjørndalen and thought of mentioning him earlier - undoubtedly one of the greatest sportsmen ever - though he only managed to win the same event 3 times in a row and only did the clean sweep of all the events available once, so not quite up there with Phelps. He did compete in a sport where it was a lot easier to fail, but if we're talking greatest ever Olympian then he should have got over that (as he did in SLC).

no denyig he is a supreme athlete given longevity and four in a row which is vert very impressive ad won by a margin as well. Certainly amongst GOAT
However the medal count is high due to the similarity of events and the number within swimming which artificially flatters him due to the discipline

Athletics is has 100 m as fast as you can not 100m sprint, 100m hop, 100 m backwards,100m skip then a relay for each over different distances.

Its not a numbers game their are often "softer" aspects that cant be calculated. For me 2 great olympians that stand out are Zatopek and Coe.

Coe because he retained the 1500m title at a time when the event was incredibly competitive and much of that competition was home grown.

Zatopek partly for his olympic achievements but because he was arguably one of the greatest distance athletes of the 20th century

There are a hundred reasons why people wont agree but it can be calculated using a medals table.

Jurgen grobler

To suggest the different strokes in swimming is any easier than different disciplines and distances in any other sport is ridiculous. I was swimming competitively until my early 20's and know that people tend to specialise in specific strokes and distances just like any other sport. If it is that easy then why is Phelps such a phenomenon within swimming, let alone any other sport. What he's done is comparable to winning gold in the road race, TT and track events in the same Olympics. And the fact he's done it over so many Olympic cycles makes it even more extraordinary. He is the greatest ever Olympian. That is simply a fact. He's got more medals over more Olympic cycles, and the whole point of the Olympics is to win medals, so there you are - anyone who can count can establish that he is the greatest ever Olympian. You might want to argue whether or not he's the greatest ever athlete, but that's a whole other different debate. One thing is for sure - he is a genetic freak. His whole body by complete chance is designed for swimming, so that certainly means he has an advantage over just about every other swimmer. He could of course be doped unto the eyeballs, but until that is established he's simply a phenomenom.

What he's done is comparable to winning gold in the road race, TT and track events in the same Olympics.

He's got more medals over more Olympic cycles, and the whole point of the Olympics is to win medals, so there you are - anyone who can count can establish that he is the greatest ever Olympian

Without doubt the greatest swimmer and therefore a great but only a swimmer can do this volume. Given that its not unreasonable to point it out.

I might be wrong here, but it looks like Junky and me are finally agreeing on something! 😯

Bear in mind the pool is the most controllable environment. Never impacted by competitors, weather or even temperature. Not the greatest for me.

Bear in mind the pool is the most controllable environment. Never impacted by competitors, weather or even temperature.

Is that not a good thing for finding 'the best'? Taking as much chance and external factors out of it as possible to allow true performance to rise to the top. The Olympic road race is the antithesis of this - the Olympic champion is really just the person best suited to the course decreed by the organisers in that 4 year windows who avoids the bad luck. If when it is your turn to be in peak physical condition the organisers put on a course not suited to you or someone falls in front of you taking you down, that could well be your only chance in a lifetime to get the gold.

To qualify for the Olympics is a massive achievement. To reach a final, even more so. To medal even morer again. To win a gold is the pinnacle of any athletes career. That's one gold in one event in one games. Seems strange to have to point this out on a 'sporty' forum. To do this in different events over a span of 12+ years is unimaginable to any top sportsperson. Ask any olympic athlete who the greatest is, i'd bet my house they'd all say Phelps. Ask the internet full of 'sporting nobodies' and suddenly it's in doubt? Odd.

wobbliscott - Member

To suggest the different strokes in swimming is any easier than different disciplines and distances in any other sport is ridiculous.

Agree with you completely. It's utter nonsense.

My breaststroke is poor*, my freestyle and backstroke are very poor and i can't do the 'fly at all. Just because they take place in the water doesn't make them the same thing.

*it's my only good stroke and possibly faster than most folk on here, but not in the grand scheme of things.

To qualify for the Olympics is a massive achievement. To reach a final, even more so. To medal even morer again. To win a gold is the pinnacle of any athletes career. That's one gold in one event in one games. Seems strange to have to point this out on a 'sporty' forum.

Thank goodness you are here. Although I dont think it needed pointing out and is lagely irrelevant as all gold medal winners have to go through this process.

Ask the internet full of 'sporting nobodies'

Are you sure?

Agree with you completely. It's utter nonsense

Its not nonsense. Try comparing a 100m sprinter with a Marathon runner and compare the variation in training. You dont know what you are talking about it would seem.

Surfer, you suggested Coe. Yeah, you seem to be an expert in this sort of thing 🙄 FWIW i was hooked on the Coe/Ovett battles growing up but a couple of golds in boycotted olympics isn't even close if we are being impartial.

p.s. who on here is a sporting somebody?

Surfer, you suggested Coe. Yeah, you seem to be an expert in this sort of thing

I didnt claim to be an expert I made the point that it may not be the athlete with the greatest number of medals who is the greatest. Coe and Zatopek where two of my "favourites" along with Nurmi and a number of others. Coe dominated from 800 to the Mile for a number of years.

p.s. who on here is a sporting somebody?

They don't blow their own trumpet, but they are here. One has a world cycling record and there's at least one world famous lurker.

Yes

And there's occasional visits from a founding father / legend of the sport.

And Brant.

Name names Tom Howard...

P.s trumpet blowing time. I used to hold a world cycling record too. No big deal really 😉

Edit: just checked the current official record ... 730 front hops set in 2014. I did 212 in 87. Time to dig out the bmx again lol

Ask any olympic athlete who the greatest is, i'd bet my house they'd all say Phelps.

IS redgraves rowing so much poorer than Phelps because he had less medals but over more games? Seems a daft conclusion to reach IMHO
and all this seems to be is a few folk who swim getting upset at "nobodies" disagreeing with them about how swimming is easier to get more medals - the tables prove this - I bet every olympic the individual with the most medals is ALWAYS a swimmer despite it being so hard...it is and it is not. Its very hard whereas for most others its impossible
Redgrave cannot row in a another boat for example

I bet every olympic the individual with the most medals is ALWAYS a swimmer despite it being so hard

Nope, 6 gymnasts in the last 10 olympics. True, the other 4 were swimmers. Well, I say 4, 3 of them were Phelps. Only person to be top more than twice….

Thanks god i did not put my house on it 😉

Interesting you got a link?
Genuine q not saying you are wrong but interested

I did have to look it up 😉 as always wikipedia is king:

[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Olympic_medalists#Summer_Olympic_Games ]List of summer olympics[/url]